Plan of ILP

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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:01 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:

So yeah, that would make us into animals in a zoo, in a sense - but we would also be the guardians of the zoo, and there aren't any fences. Its just people looking in on what we give them to look at.


You can't be both the animals in the zoo and the guardians of the zoo. It is just not in harmony with reality.


Why don't you all just find a neat spot on the beach~ different ones every day - roaming gypsies - and become philosophical beach bums. Just imagine the inspiration which can come from those waves, the ocean, the seagulls.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby Otto_West » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:32 am

Yeah, that's exactly how I imagined Faust would look like in real life. Well, for whatever reason I imagined him with an aging grey beard and black thick rimmed glasses with a tobacco pipe as a sort of quasi liberal armchair neckbeard philosopher. Close enough.....
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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:49 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:Fixed Cross wrote:

So yeah, that would make us into animals in a zoo, in a sense - but we would also be the guardians of the zoo, and there aren't any fences. Its just people looking in on what we give them to look at.


You can't be both the animals in the zoo and the guardians of the zoo. It is just not in harmony with reality.


Why don't you all just find a neat spot on the beach~ different ones every day - roaming gypsies - and become philosophical beach bums. Just imagine the inspiration which can come from those waves, the ocean, the seagulls.

Mjuh.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides

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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:30 am

Chess, of course. There must be a perpetual chess tournament.

Also a metal shop, a forge.
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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:04 pm

Why don't you all just find a neat spot on the beach~ different ones every day - roaming gypsies - and become philosophical beach bums. Just imagine the inspiration which can come from those waves, the ocean, the seagulls.


Just got back from a playful and joyful encounter with the ocean ... yes there is only one ocean.

While I spent an hour or so in the water ... the word 'encounter' seems appropriate. A person can never become "one" with the ocean.

Likewise with people ... an individual can never become "one" with an 'other' individual ... our isolation can never be totally shattered.

Today's ocean experience triggered some new thoughts that are relevant in this thread.

1) Humans love 'encounters' ... with fellow humans, animals, trees, mountains, ocean ... just about everything that cohabits the planet. Some encounters lead to lifelong relationships with the "object(s)" of the encounter.

2) The intensity of an encounter is ... to a significant degree ... a function of a) the number of our senses engaged in the encounter. b) the intensity of engagement of each sense. Walking on the ocean floor, floating effortlessly on the surface, drifting effortlessly completely submerged ... each activity producing a different sensation ... feeling.

The same logic applies to human encounters. A digital contact must necessarily be weaker(less intense) ... and consequently embody less potential ... than a face to face contact ... the essence of UP's seed.

Proximity to the ocean is indeed a catalyst for philosophical thought.
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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:08 pm

Resistance is manifestation of movement ... as in movement of UP's 'seed' towards germination ... resistance is encouraging indeed.

Resistance authenticates the potential embodied in a 'somethang' ... yuge resistance = yuge potential.

This phenomenon is self evident in today's geopolitical events.

I'm encouraged by the timid response ... a sure sign of genius. :)
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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:01 am

Haha
theres something to that.
It largely depends on who proposes the community who will want to show up.

That UP/Trixie is proposing it bodes well for aggressive, talented and somewhat crazy artists, and less so for more adapted people.

That said, I think if a thing like this is to generate revenue, it must consist of talented and aggressive people; well-adaptedness generally gives complacency and boringness, which isn't marketable, so we couldn't sustain ourselves let alone grow.
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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:01 am

"The Philosophers" have been pumping a dry well for some time now .... perhaps it's time to look for the "fountain" ... not a task for the faint hearted ... though lurking in the shadows is OK too. :-)
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:13 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Fixed Cross wrote:

So yeah, that would make us into animals in a zoo, in a sense - but we would also be the guardians of the zoo, and there aren't any fences. Its just people looking in on what we give them to look at.


You can't be both the animals in the zoo and the guardians of the zoo. It is just not in harmony with reality.


Why don't you all just find a neat spot on the beach~ different ones every day - roaming gypsies - and become philosophical beach bums. Just imagine the inspiration which can come from those waves, the ocean, the seagulls.

Mjuh.

lol I have no understanding of that word or whatever it is.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:16 pm

:mrgreen:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Plan of ILP

Postby encode_decode » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:56 pm

    pilgrim-seeker_tom

    Many have their heads in the sand. I am sure that you are aware of this already . . .

    pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:"The Philosophers" have been pumping a dry well for some time now .... perhaps it's time to look for the "fountain" ... not a task for the faint hearted ... though lurking in the shadows is OK too. :-)

    Oh so true . . . so so true . . . sometimes it makes me feel like I just want to give up and move to a deserted island.

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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:04 am

      sometimes it makes me feel like I just want to give up and move to a deserted island.


      Aaron ... seems like a practical first step.

      In such circumstances you will be compelled to face your "isolation" ... you will be rid of all the illusions ... illusions that suggest it's possible in this life to forget ... at least temporarily ... your "isolation".

      Mitigating the reality of "isolation" is what humans conjure up ad infinitum ... the discomfort of our built in "isolation" is simply unbearable.
      "Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:37 pm

      UP's 'seed' (this OP) is a call for a community of like minded individuals to congregate on a pseudo 'deserted island' ... an 'off grid' location.

      IMO her 'seed' acknowledges the natural state of human isolation ... ergo ... our minds are jailed in dark and wet enclosure ... relying totally on our senses for connectivity to our environment and all objects/entities/beings within our environment.

      The notion "like minded" suggests an overlap of two or more individual minds ...

      Like Minded.JPG
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      Perhaps the "overlap" is engineered as a component of our DNA.
      "Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Meno_ » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:05 am

      Perhaps, or may be it ends up that way.
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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:17 pm

      Obviously you trolls prefer to stay invisible. Yes, we all understand that The Philosophers have been a threat to trolls.
      And that UPs agreement with me forms a further threat. You may at one point be asked to reveal your face... or what passes for a face.

      Dont count on things getting easier for you.
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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Chakra Superstar » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:27 am

      I lived in a philosophers community (of sorts) for many years. It was really a new-age/spiritual community but atheists also lived there which balanced it out a bit.

      We had art, wood and metal workshops, a bookstore and book distribution business (we were the sole distributor of ACIM in the Asia/Pacific region), tofu production and fruit & veg business. Some of the residents would do odd jobs (carpentry etc) outside the community from time to time to support ourselves.

      As far as philosophy was concerned, the community was part of what has come to be known a Permaculture. Bill Mollision (a Tasmanian and father of Permaculture) used to visit, give talks, and help us set up the land so that it worked with nature rather than raping it. He’d sometimes visit with Aboriginal Elders who passed on their knowledge as well.

      Permaculture is not just about agriculture. It’s about culture in general and covers everything from architecture ("touch the earth lightly") to relationships. Agriculture is just the beginning. Feeding yourself is your first priority and gardening is a perfect way to visually see the philosophy in action.

      In some ways Permaculture is like a practical Feng Shui (wind-water) where everything is designed to flow naturally and in harmony. Various veggies, for instance, would grow among flowers or weeds because those flowers attracted insects that keep the veggie-eating bugs away. Some plants/flowers were grown next to others because they returned nutrients to the soil when they died; others provided shade. Permaculture is action-learning; it’s non-stop questioning, testing, evaluating. It’s an open, practical philosophy that changes and adapts to its environment. There's no dogma.

      A key point in Permaculture is to remain aware of your part in the system; not just as part of the natural cycle but to be aware that on a deeper level, you are what you’re actually growing; you are what you're actually building.

      Here’s an example of Permaculture in action:

      On an early morning walk I noticed some fences had been damaged then I saw the gardens had been ripped up. Further along, down near the river, the hothouse, gardening sheds and meditation pergola destroyed or vandalized. While we had been sleeping up on the hills, someone had snuck onto the property by the river and quietly destroyed everything.

      Days later, the police found the culprits. They were young, local rednecks who lived further down the valley. They didn't like the new-ager hippies invading their valley. The police asked if we wished to press charges and, after a debate, we decided that there’d be no legal ramifications if the boys helped us repair what they destroyed. Learning was a better outcome than punishment.

      After school and on the weekends, the kids turned up to help us repair the damage. At first, they were very tense but because we had decided to treat them as welcomed guests they quickly settled in. A couple of months later, everything was back to normal and the kids left as friends. While they never visited again, they’d often toot their horns or wave as they passed through the valley on their way home.

      That's practical philosophy – start out with a problem then end with a solution that’s better than it was before the problem.
      .
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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Meno_ » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:21 am

      Fixed Cross wrote:Obviously you trolls prefer to stay invisible. Yes, we all understand that The Philosophers have been a threat to trolls.
      And that UPs agreement with me forms a further threat. You may at one point be asked to reveal your face... or what passes for a face.







      count on things getting easier for you.







      I've been really under the weather. Lately, things are unraveling. Just had a chance to check out what's
      going on here.

      At any rate, i am in the midst of things I cannot but try to resolve in some way, and hope that my silence
      will not be taken as a sign of other then preoccupation.
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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:40 am

      Chakra Superstar wrote:I lived in a philosophers community (of sorts) for many years. It was really a new-age/spiritual community but atheists also lived there which balanced it out a bit.


      Sounds heavenly ...

      This past summer I discovered ... through experience ... how hard our ancestors worked ... in order to eat regularly. A wonderful experience ... it animates 'self' in a way "words" ... written or spoken ... can never do.
      "Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:27 pm

      These are more spiritual new age communities than philosophical communities, as there already is a philosophy that defines the community - permaculture - a philosophical community, it seems to me, would pertain to all possible philosophies.

      I will in any case not be part of something that seeks to seclude. I am only ever interested in expanding the scope of influence of real philosophical exploration. Science must be integral part of any such community - it must develop the exact sciences, that is the first condition.
      The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:58 am

      Code: Select all
      I will in any case not be part of something that seeks to seclude. I am only ever interested in expanding the scope of influence of real philosophical exploration. Science must be integral part of any such community - it must develop the exact sciences, that is the first condition.


      1) Seclusion is a necessary first step ... "can't see the forest for the trees". Seclusion fosters expulsion ... at least temporarily ... of all that we know.

      We will build this brick by brick


      2) Unbridled confidence in science is a manifestation of the phenomenon ... "urge to control". Is science aiding and abetting ... or hindering ... the escalating tensions in today's geopolitical arena?

      we can build a community of geniuses in which we can live and breathe together


      3) Excluding an openness to "spirituality" is also a manifestation of the phenomenon ... "urge to control".

      It is time for us to do something rather than simply talk
      "Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:07 am

      Arcturus, the word Mjuh is something a friend of Sauwelios used to say when he thought something was intended to sound smart or interesting but didn't.
      It was usually quite well placed. Its not an object, though.
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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:08 am

      pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
      Code: Select all
      I will in any case not be part of something that seeks to seclude. I am only ever interested in expanding the scope of influence of real philosophical exploration. Science must be integral part of any such community - it must develop the exact sciences, that is the first condition.


      1) Seclusion is a necessary first step ... "can't see the forest for the trees". Seclusion fosters expulsion ... at least temporarily ... of all that we know.

      We will build this brick by brick


      2) Unbridled confidence in science is a manifestation of the phenomenon ... "urge to control". Is science aiding and abetting ... or hindering ... the escalating tensions in today's geopolitical arena?

      we can build a community of geniuses in which we can live and breathe together


      3) Excluding an openness to "spirituality" is also a manifestation of the phenomenon ... "urge to control".

      It is time for us to do something rather than simply talk

      NO WE SHALL ONLY HAVE ONE GOD AND IT WILL BE THIS WORD:

      (wait, someone is at the door)
      The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
      - Thucydides

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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:16 am

      Road Map.jpg
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      A real life call to "Think for Yourself" ...

      https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2017/08/2 ... -yourself/
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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:27 am

      A trail of haters
      The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
      - Thucydides

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      Re: Plan of ILP

      Postby Chakra Superstar » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:27 am

      pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
      Chakra Superstar wrote:I lived in a philosophers community (of sorts) for many years. It was really a new-age/spiritual community but atheists also lived there which balanced it out a bit.


      Sounds heavenly ...

      This past summer I discovered ... through experience ... how hard our ancestors worked ... in order to eat regularly. A wonderful experience ... it animates 'self' in a way "words" ... written or spoken ... can never do.


      Yep. A man with his head in the clouds should have his feet (and hands) in the earth. It keeps him balanced.

      Here are some pics of the area. The community was further in the valley than most of these pics show but the whole area is beautiful.

      .
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