Moderator: MagsJ
Mr Reasonable wrote:You a welfare queen?
Gloominary wrote:Does anyone else here hate work so much they spent most of their life avoiding it as much as possible?
Zero_Sum wrote:Gloominary wrote:Does anyone else here hate work so much they spent most of their life avoiding it as much as possible?
*Raises hand*
Don't worry, with the great western economy model we will all be unemployed soon enough, fret not.
Gloominary wrote:Zero_Sum wrote:Gloominary wrote:Does anyone else here hate work so much they spent most of their life avoiding it as much as possible?
*Raises hand*
Don't worry, with the great western economy model we will all be unemployed soon enough, fret not.
Glad I'm not the only one around here.
Zero_Sum wrote:In this economy there is no social mobility
Twelve years I worked my heart out sometimes putting myself in perilous environmental health conditions (twelve hour shifts six days a week)thinking to myself that someday I could get ahead and have a better quality life yet for all that struggling or sacrifice on my part for twelve straight years I have nothing to show for it where I am no longer under any illusions anymore.
My motto currently is to work as very little and less as possible riding the surf board of poverty federal tax exemption status part time until this economy inevitably collapses in the near future.
In this economy there is no social mobility, benefits, or advancement for the working class, so why bother working hard at all if there is no reward and incentive for doing so?
Twelve years I worked my heart out sometimes putting myself in perilous environmental health conditions (twelve hour shifts six days a week)thinking to myself that someday I could get ahead and have a better quality life yet for all that struggling or sacrifice on my part for twelve straight years I have nothing to show for it where I am no longer under any illusions anymore. Fuck it, let it all burn to the ground for all I care. There will be plenty of opportunities when the day of reckoning comes which I eagerly look forward to.
Gloominary wrote:For the last 8 years I worked just enough to live.
I kept most of my expenses low and I borrowed money when I needed to.
I took low skilled, low paying jobs.
I put my health and my free time ahead of making money, which I used to read, write, watch videos play games and relax, and I guess I don't have much to show for it either, but I wasn't expecting to have something to show for it, monetarily.
While I might get some training this year so I can make more money, I never want to work full time, the most I've worked was for 35 hours a week for a short period of time, and that was too much, I never want to work that much again.
I guess I wouldn't mind making enough money to save up and buy a cheap apartment in a small town, but at this point that remains a dream, I can't even afford to eat and pay rent, I have to borrow money, which'll probably run out before the end of this year.
Oh well, was nice while it lasted.
Silhouette wrote:Gloominary wrote:For the last 8 years I worked just enough to live.
I kept most of my expenses low and I borrowed money when I needed to.
I took low skilled, low paying jobs.
I put my health and my free time ahead of making money, which I used to read, write, watch videos play games and relax, and I guess I don't have much to show for it either, but I wasn't expecting to have something to show for it, monetarily.
While I might get some training this year so I can make more money, I never want to work full time, the most I've worked was for 35 hours a week for a short period of time, and that was too much, I never want to work that much again.
I guess I wouldn't mind making enough money to save up and buy a cheap apartment in a small town, but at this point that remains a dream, I can't even afford to eat and pay rent, I have to borrow money, which'll probably run out before the end of this year.
Oh well, was nice while it lasted.
So you're single then.
Silhouette wrote:Zero_Sum wrote:In this economy there is no social mobility
Twelve years I worked my heart out sometimes putting myself in perilous environmental health conditions (twelve hour shifts six days a week)thinking to myself that someday I could get ahead and have a better quality life yet for all that struggling or sacrifice on my part for twelve straight years I have nothing to show for it where I am no longer under any illusions anymore.
That says it all.
The single most important factor in an economy is that it self-perpetuates maximum motivation in as many of the right people as possible. All of this cheerleading over personal responsibility might get people to try in the short run, but if ultimately it visibly amounts to nothing it's all just lip service that demotivates even more when you are confronted with the prospect that you fell for a scam.
I don't support this Gloominary notion of minimalism, not because I don't agree with its benefits, but because it's not consistent with trying to stand out as being a more impressive and attractive human being. On a personal level I like attractive people and the existence of people to try to win over who stand out over the rest, and I like trying to be one of them. But also on a wider scale the prospect of feeling out new possibilities advances what we are able to do as a species for ourselves as well as over other species that would otherwise threaten our dominance. Think of healthcare - we would otherwise be at the mercy of microorganisms if we didn't try, and potentially other species would even be nipping at our heels if we didn't try to defend ourselves.
The problem is what the economy encourages as excellence. Of course there are very many ways to explore that are to our detriment that can be turned into "success" in an unregulated economy. Capitalism can only be optimal if there are more possible ways to benefit our species than to either trick it or exploit it to its detriment. This is why we NEED government that actually does this job rather than funds detrimental exploration. You cannot trust privatised companies to do more to our benefit than tricking and exploiting our weaknesses when excellence and advantage are incentivised. But equally, you cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater and get rid of the incentivisation of excellence and advantage altogether.
Gloominary wrote:Call me crazy, but I think we shouldn't feel like we have to make ourselves, 'more attractive' ('more normal', hardworking, blah-blah), before we hook up with people, as friends or more.
I'd rather just be myself, and accept people for who they are, and where they're at.
Birds of a feather, right?
Gloominary wrote:My motto is to just get by, I'm not trying to be an attractive person like Silhouette is, at least not in the conventional sense of attractive. My objective, if I have one, is to subvert what attractive is, find a few people who're attracted to me as I am, or to be alone. That being said, I think I have been too extreme in the past, and am now trying to find the right balance for me.
Zero_Sum wrote:What we need is a socialist government that actually cares about the public collective welfare of its citizens. Concerning the United States social political capitalistic economy the damage is irreparable and there is no level of reform that will work other than its complete collapse.
The American political conservatives here speak of meritocracy but I for one will say meritocracy is completely dead in this nation. Here everything revolves around money, nepotism, who you know, family inheritance, debt serfdom, and political loyalties. This nation is rotten and disgusting to its core where only a complete reset will fix the situation.
Define work.
Silhouette wrote:Gloominary wrote:Call me crazy, but I think we shouldn't feel like we have to make ourselves, 'more attractive' ('more normal', hardworking, blah-blah), before we hook up with people, as friends or more.
I'd rather just be myself, and accept people for who they are, and where they're at.
Birds of a feather, right?
That's the ideal, and its true to an extent. But the underwater part of the iceberg is social norms, contributions and expectations/predictions of these things. If you're going to be in a relationship, you have to be a good mate in the real world, beyond just being an abstract "you" who does your thing however it pleases you - or as well as. Compatibility minimises this pressure, sure. But what if you had a kid? Are you seen as going to be able to raise a good one, whether or not you actually would? Bare in mind that even if you and/or potential mates don't want one, you only exist because a long chain of previous generations were picked for being seen as able to have and bring one up - or you wouldn't be here. That's the problem with minimalism - you're breaking a chain. Maybe it needs breaking, and maybe your minimalism is nature's answer to breaking it. Your life will be a process of coming to terms with this and resolving either way, whether or not you actually achieve your resolutions.Gloominary wrote:My motto is to just get by, I'm not trying to be an attractive person like Silhouette is, at least not in the conventional sense of attractive. My objective, if I have one, is to subvert what attractive is, find a few people who're attracted to me as I am, or to be alone. That being said, I think I have been too extreme in the past, and am now trying to find the right balance for me.
Attractive people don't have to try to be attractive, people who try to be attractive can be attractive by their trying, and people who try to recreate attractiveness in a new way can also be attractive. You compete in reaction to what you think you can do about the attractiveness that you have, but you compete nonetheless, and you derive purpose in your potential failure just in case - but you can't deny your urges. If you do, health is basically inversely proportional to how much you deny them - explore at your peril. Of course, Buddhism et al. proves you can come out the other side - I guess this is why people keep comparing you to a Buddhist. I've had the same suggested of me plenty of times too. My life and choices are very minimalistic too, and no surprises it's been a few years now since I had a long term gf too.Zero_Sum wrote:What we need is a socialist government that actually cares about the public collective welfare of its citizens. Concerning the United States social political capitalistic economy the damage is irreparable and there is no level of reform that will work other than its complete collapse.
The American political conservatives here speak of meritocracy but I for one will say meritocracy is completely dead in this nation. Here everything revolves around money, nepotism, who you know, family inheritance, debt serfdom, and political loyalties. This nation is rotten and disgusting to its core where only a complete reset will fix the situation.
I am very familiar with the reactive attitude of turning against your own interests, just to be in control of it and to derive satisfaction from calling it. But it's your end either way. Imagine the hell we would all have to endure if society collapsed! Seriously, if you don't appreciate all the things you take for granted, you need to rethink things right now.
Society has to transition, yes, unless you quite fancy your chances in an unstable reset of all our infrastructure and the products and services it provides and maintains. I don't fancy mine, so I don't want things to crash. What about you?
We need a Socialist government, obviously, but convincing others who have been indoctrinated to think that Socialism is Totalitarianism is no easy feat. And a Socialist government is not without its drawbacks either, meaning that even the most reasonable of us all are going to be wary of such a prospect. But even more difficult than that is overthrowing those in power who have the resources to keep the current status quo in place until it does inevitably implode... Fortunately, I think advances in technology will force the issue. There is literally no way to justify the continued employment of most of the world in order to justify their income when a robot can do anybody's job better than they can. Happily, Capitalism is very good at driving its own demise in such a way, whether or not we live to see it - I can only hope we do. What are we all going to do once AI takes over all our work? All be unemployed and starve? I don't think so - some kind of planned distribution method will be forced, and it might not even need to be a person at the top of it all. Will that make us slaves? Maybe. Are we already?
That's the ideal, and its true to an extent. But the underwater part of the iceberg is social norms, contributions and expectations/predictions of these things. If you're going to be in a relationship, you have to be a good mate in the real world, beyond just being an abstract "you" who does your thing however it pleases you - or as well as. Compatibility minimises this pressure, sure. But what if you had a kid? Are you seen as going to be able to raise a good one, whether or not you actually would? Bare in mind that even if you and/or potential mates don't want one, you only exist because a long chain of previous generations were picked for being seen as able to have and bring one up - or you wouldn't be here. That's the problem with minimalism - you're breaking a chain. Maybe it needs breaking, and maybe your minimalism is nature's answer to breaking it. Your life will be a process of coming to terms with this and resolving either way, whether or not you actually achieve your resolutions.
Attractive people don't have to try to be attractive, people who try to be attractive can be attractive by their trying, and people who try to recreate attractiveness in a new way can also be attractive. You compete in reaction to what you think you can do about the attractiveness that you have, but you compete nonetheless, and you derive purpose in your potential failure just in case - but you can't deny your urges. If you do, health is basically inversely proportional to how much you deny them - explore at your peril. Of course, Buddhism et al. proves you can come out the other side - I guess this is why people keep comparing you to a Buddhist. I've had the same suggested of me plenty of times too. My life and choices are very minimalistic too, and no surprises it's been a few years now since I had a long term gf too.
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