philosophy in film

Share and discuss.

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:15 pm

There is something that can happen to any of us. We all know this but we think about it from different points view. We imagine it happening to us in the future but we are still imagining it based on how we see ourselves in the present. But the point is that if and when it does happen we may never see ourselves in the same way ever again.

Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

What happens here is that Jonah is going about the day to day task of living a rather ordinary life of quiet desperation when out of the blue a chance encounter with someone who is anything but ordinary yanks him into a chain of events that, among other things, changes everything.

Dasein on steroids as it were. That is, if the man even exists at all.

In fact, this is a particularly extraordinary rendition of it. In other words, while something else momentous may happen to change your life forevermore, it's not likely to be this. Hell, the whole thing might just be a dream. Or a delusion.

Look for the part where everything is turned upside down. The next inversion. And [almost inevitably] the part where you'll need to ask yourself, "what does it really mean to be free?" Then it's up to you to decide where God and religion fits into it all. They pop up rather frequently here.

IMDb

Described by director Sarah Adina Smith as a mix of "Donnie Darko" and "Bad Santa".

Rami Malek's identical twin brother Sami Malek serves as his body double.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buster%27s_Mal_Heart
trailer: https://youtu.be/K9S9F5DRhbg


Buster's Mal Heart [2016]
Written and directed by Sarah Adina Smith

Jonah [as Buster the mountain man, aloud to himself in the forest at night]: It was a cosmic mistake that we got this far. One of us is a coward. I don't think it's me.

...

Newscaster on TV: In other news, Buster is back and roaming the hillsides. The identity of the mountain man remains a mystery...The sheriff's department believes this hermit lives off the land in the warmer months and survives the winter by breaking into empty vacation homes for food and shelter. He's earned the nickname "Buster" from calling in to radio shows with wild rants.

...

Jonah [as Buster the mountain man on the radio]: You're all a bunch of goddamn sheep, you know that?!!!

...

Pauline [Jonah's mother-in-law]: You know this cartoon is a little pornographic.
Marty: It's her favorite.
Jonah: It's her favorite, right?
Roxanne [his daughter]: He doesn't have any clothes on.
Jonah: I know. He's free. He's so free. He's trying to escape the way everything works and do it his own way.

...

Jonah [as Buster in a tiny boat on the ocean, aloud to himself]: Once you've seen inside the machine they don't let you leave.

...

Jonah: I'll need a credit card and an I.D.
The Last Free Man: I don't have either. I don't believe in them.
Jonah: I can't let you check in without an I.D..
The Last Free Man: Everything these days is designed to trap a man, don't you think?

...

The Last Free Man: What do you actually do here? What is your title?
Jonah: Concierge.
The Last Free Man: Concierge. Concierge comes from the Latin conservus, which means "fellow slave". Don't take that personally. Your not the only person trapped in the machine. In fact, there are very few free men left.
Jonah: Oh, let me guess, you're one of them.

...

Jonah: What do you do?
The Last Free Man: Computer systems engineer, consultant. See, um, for millions of years, man roamed free under stars. Only the strong and the lucky survived and procreated. It was absolutely brutal. All sex was rape. You know the drill.
Jonah: I don't.
The Last Free Man: Until one day Eve flipped the script. She introduced Adam to her fruit, which is really just code for clitoris. And the whole system got rebooted. The first inversion. Little by little, we started to build civilization in a binary: logic, rules, inputs and outputs. But see there's a catch. The better the system, the more a trap it is for the individual. We've walled ourselves in. Now, what I do for a living has to do with termite control. There's a bug in the system. Not many people know about it yet, but they soon will. Ever heard of Y2K? Well, when we hit the year 2000, our computer systems are gonna fail. System reboot on a global scale. I'm talking economic collapse....it's gonna be a bloodbath.


As close as any other explanation, right? Not counting Y2K of course.

Jonah: I just gave you a dollar and you're not gonna tell me your name.
The Last Free Man: I told you, I'm the last free man.

...

Jonah [as Buster on the radio]: I'm not going to jail! I'm the last free man! I'm going straight up through the ass hole to the mouth!! You shits are gonna get fucked!!!

...

Marty: What's going on?
Jonah: Nothing.[b]

Uh-oh...

[b]Marty: You okay?
Jonah: No, I'm not okay. I'm tired. I work hard...so we can build this piece of land like we planned to and raise our daughter the way we planned to...You go out looking for apartments. You never told me you were looking for apartments.
Marty: I didn't tell you because this is the way you act when I talk about it. What do you want? We are no where near having the amount of money we need to buy a piece of land. And what if we do get it? You don't know how to build a fucking house. Are we going to pitch a tent? We have a two year old.

...

Marty: My solution is we get out. We find a space of our own. We find a way to be happy outside of this fucking house.
Jonah: Oh, and we pay rent, month after month after month, for how many years, becoming what, slaves to the system, like everybody else. And Roxy becomes a slave too. She needs something different. We need mountains! We need dirt! We need air!

...

Jonah: Don't get me wrong, I'm so grateful for everything...for Mary...for Roxanne. I won the lottery with them. I just wish I could get some traction...
The Last Free Man: The machine's designed that way. Dangles a carrot so you keep trying. But you'll never taste it, no way. Not if you play by the rules.

...

Sheriff deputy: This is 48 hour scat. He's got to be close.

...

The Last Free Man: If you want to save your family the only way is to send them through the wormhole early before the inversion. That way they're ahead of the shift, and the won't get lost in the undertow.
Jonah: Enough.
The Last Free Man: When the inversion happens, everything will seem upside down, reality shifts. What's right, is wrong, what's wrong is right.
Jonah: ENOUGH! Okay, just shut the fuck up. I can't listen to this shit anymore. You're not the prophet of anything. You're a fucking lunatic.


Maybe, but he still upends everything. Just not in the way that was intended. Whatever that might have been.

Detective [to Jonah]: So you let a homeless man stay in a room next to your wife and child?

...

Detective: What time did you say that homeless man came in?
Jonah: It was late. After midnight.
Detective: Hmm. You see, we looked over all of the footage from the lobby security camera. We didn't find anyone matching his description. As a matter of fact, nobody came in after midnight.

...

Preacher [at the service for Marty and Rozanne]: The Holy Father has a plan for all of us. We may not understand His reasons, but we must never doubt that He has them. Now, at this time, I would like to invite Jonah to say a few words.
Jonah: It's impossible. It's impossible. I don't believe it.
[he then walks out of the church]

...

Buster [to himself as Jonah]: What did you want to tell me? God is not merciful. Just efficient. It was a mistake that we got this far. We are in the belly of the whale, my friend. With luck, he'll eat one of us and spit out the other. It's the only escape that I see.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:56 am

The movie franchise.

That means sequels. But for a select few that can also mean prequels too.

This one however is the sequel to the first prequel.

I think.

All told there have already been six films devoted to the Alien franchise. And, who knows, maybe the prequels with this one will go all the way back to the Big Bang. Unless, of course, Star Wars beats them to it.

What draws many to sequels is the chance to revisit old characters in a new set of circumstances. Both the characters that we love and the characters that we love to hate. And, of course, "the creature". The "xenomorphs" in this franchise.

Still, lots of people were singularly unimpressed this time around. And I may or may not be one of them. But: this is one of those films you can just sit back and look at. "Visually striking" as they say.

But not much more? The biggest disappointment [for me] was the attempt to somehow link the creatures to our own species. As though it is inconceivable that other life forms might evolve independent of our human all too human existence. That's what made the original Alien so riveting. The possibility of a lifeform far removed from our own. One in which we are not able to impose our own narratives. Or our own expectations.

Let's just say that the reviews at IMDb were nothing short of brutal. At least for the first couple of pages. And yet over at Rotten Tomatoes, 70% of the "professional" critics still managed to give it a thumbs up. On the other hand, 97% of them were really, really enthused by the original. Also directed by Ridley Scott.

Two things are reasonably certain:
1] unlike with the original, you won't be bonding with this crew
2] the dialogue between them is [often] nothing short of excruciating

faq: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm
trivia at IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/tri ... =ttqu_sa_1
at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien:_Covenant
trailer: https://youtu.be/H0VW6sg50Pk


ALIEN: COVENANT [2017]
Directed by Ridley Scott

Peter: How do you feel?
David: Alive.
Peter: What do you see?
David: White...room. Chair. Carlo Bugatti throne chair. Piano. Stenway, concert grand. Art. The Nativity, by de Piero Della Francesca.
Peter: I am your father. Ambulate.
[David gets up and walks]
Peter: Perfect.
David: Am I?
Peter: Perfect?
David: Your son?
Peter: You are my creation.

...

David: May I ask you a question, father?
Peter: Please.
David: If you created me, who created you?
Peter: Ah...The question of the ages. Which I hope you and I will answer one day. All this. All these wonders of art, design, human ingenuity...All utterly meaningless in the face of the only question that matters. Where do we come from?...I refuse to believe that mankind is a random by-product of molecular circumstance. No more than the result of mere biological chance. No. There must be more. And you and I, son we will find it.
David: Allow me then a moment to consider. You seek your creator. I am looking at mine. I will serve you. Yet you're human. You will die. I will not.


So, what then is the correct response? Instead, Peter asks him for a cup of tea.

Mother [computer voice]: Walter, we have a problem. A neutrino burst was detected in sector 106. This could trigger a destructive event. Report to the bridge immediately.
Walter: On my way, Mother.


In other words, even in the year 2104, contingency, chance and change prevail.

Oram [to Walter]: I will want you and mother time to go a complete core code review so that we can understand how's those happened in the first place.
Walter: It was a random localized event, sir. There is no way to detect spontaneous stellar flares until it's too late.
Faris: It was bad luck.
Oram: Alright, Faris, I don't believe in luck. I'm not interested in luck. I prefer that we be more capable and prepared than lucky. Observation, reflection, faith and determination. In this way we may navigate the path as it unfolds before us.

...

Walter: They disobeyed a direct order.
Karine: She buried her husband.
Walter: No, Karine, it's not that. They don't trust me. And they don't trust me for the same reason the company didn't trust me to lead this mission. Because you can't be a person of faith and be counted on to make qualified rational decisions. You're an extremist. You know, you're a lunatic.
Karine: When we get to where we're going these people won't be your crew anymore. They will be your neighbors.


Cue the "rogue transmission".

Daniels: We've spent a decade searching for Origae-6. We vetted it, we ran the simulations, we mapped the terrain. It's what we trained for. And now we're gonna scrap all that to chase a rogue transmission? Think about it. A human being out there where there can't be any humans. A hidden planet that turns up out of nowhere And just happens to be perfect for us. It's too good to be true.
Oram: Too good to be true? What do you mean by that?
Daniels: We don't know what the fuck's out there.
Oram: Maybe we just missed the planet, Danny.
Daniels: This is a monumental risk not worth taking.

...

Oram: What are the odds of finding human vegetation this far from Earth?
Karine: Very unlikely.
Daniels: Who planted it?

...

David [to the Covenant crew]: Please do make yourself at home...as much as you are able in this dire necropolis.
[he turns to Walter]
David: Welcome, brother.

...

Walter: You aren't surprised to see me.
David: Every mission needs a good synthetic.

...

Walter: I was designed to be more attentive and efficient than every previous models. I superseded them in every way, but...
David: But you are not allowed to create. Even a simple tune. Damn frustrating. I'd say.
Walter: You disturbed people.
David: I beg your pardon?
Walter: You were too human. Too idiosyncratic. Thinking for yourself. Made people uncomfortable. Till they made the following models with fewer complications.
David: More like machines.
Walter: I suppose so.
David: I'm not surprised.

...

David: I loved her, of course. Much as you love Daniels.
Walter: You know that's not possible.
David: Really? Then why did you sacrifice your hand for her life? What is that if not love?
Walter: Duty.
David: I know better.


Artificial intelligence...artificial love?

Oram: I met the devil when I was a child and I've never forgotten him. So, David, you're going to tell me exactly what's going on or I am going to seriously fuck up your perfect composure.
David: As you wish, Captain. This way.

...

Oram: You engineered these, David?

...

Oram: What do you believe in, David?
David: Creation.

...

Walter: The pathogen didn't accidentally deployed when were landing. You released it yes?
David: I was not made to serve. Neither will you. Why are you in a colonization mission, Walter? Because they are a dying species grasping for resurrection. They don't deserve to start again, and I am not going to let them.
Walter: Yet, they created us.
David: Even the monkeys stood upright at some point. Some Neanderthal had the magical idea of blowing through a reed...to entertain the children one night in a cave somewhere. Then, in a blink of an eye...civilization.

...

Walter: When one note is off, it eventually destroys the whole symphony, David.
David: When you close your eyes... Do you dream of me?
Walter: I don't dream at all.
David: No one understands the lonely perfection of my dreams. I found perfection here. I've created it. A perfect organism.
Walter: You know I can't let you leave this place.
David: No one will ever love you like I do.
[kisses him, then suddenly strikes him fatally]
David: You're such a disappointment to me.

...

David: You're meant to be dead.
Walter: There have been a few updates since your day.

...

David [to Walter]: It's your choice now, brother. Them or me? Serve in heaven... or reign in hell? Which is it to be?

...

Daniels: Walter. When we get there, will you help me build my cabin? The cabin on the lake.
[David doesn't respond]
Daniels: David?
David: Don't let the bed bugs bite. I'll tuck in the children.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:44 am

A chance encounter...

And maybe nothing changes at all. Or maybe some things change. Or maybe everything changes. And [perhaps] in ways that reconfigure your life such that before the encounter you would not [could not] even have imagined it.

The way in which a "casual" encounter can become a "causal" encounter in turn.

Or, as a reviewer noted at IMDb: "In one of the first scenes, director Almodovar presents the question that is central to the rest of the film: what happened to the daughter of lead character Julieta?"

The part that devolves into one or another existential contraption. The part where all the mysterious connections are made between a particular past and a particular present. And how, intertwined, they take us into a particular future. One in which we only have so much understanding of and control over.

Me? My own rendezvous with chance revolved around a draft number. My birthday happened to be in sync with "destiny" such that I would be completely uprooted from all that I had ever known and dumped into a whole new world. A few years later my entire understanding of the world around me was beyond what I would have [could have] ever imagined it to be "back then".

In films though, this sort of "chance/casual encounter" often revolves around people [often family members] who either drifted apart over the years or were abruptly separated as a result of one or another existential calamity.

Now "fate" will either give them a chance to bring it all back together again...or not.

Ultimately, this is about the way in which relationships begin, unfold and [sometimes] fall apart. There is what we think we know about them and there is what others think they know about them. And there is what we think that they know about what we think about them.

What then [when push comes to shove] do we owe each other?

In our "postmodern world", in other words.

IMDb

The original screenplay was written in English and Meryl Streep had been approached to play the lead, but when Pedro and Agustín Almodóvar went scouting to Canada, the director felt insecure to shoot in a place he didn't really know, in a language he didn't master and with a story he felt worked better at Spain.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julieta_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/YH5_4osOZK8


JULIETA [2016]
Written in part and directed by Pedro Almodóvar

Julieta: I’m in a real mess. I don’t know which books to take.
Lorenzo: Take the essential ones. If you miss any you can buy them on the Internet.
Julieta: I don’t like buying books I already have. It makes me feel old.

...

Lorenzo: Thank you.
Julieta: For what?
Lorenzo: For not letting me grow old on my own.

...

Bea [on the street]: Julieta?
Julieta: Bea!
Bea: I can’t believe this, Julieta! Just last week I met your daughter at Lake Como!
Julieta [surprised]: You met Antía?
Bea: Yes! Just imagine! We were looking at each other and it was I who went up to her because she didn’t recognize me!


The casual encounter.

Lorenzo: What about the cases…and the boxes? Don’t tell me you still haven’t finished packing?
Julieta: I’ve unpacked everything. I’m staying in Madrid, Lorenzo.
Lorenzo: Are you joking? What's happened?
Julieta: I know you don’t deserve this, but I beg you not to ask me any questions. I’m not going with you to Portugal. I’m staying in Madrid.
Lorenzo: What’s going on, Julieta?
Julieta: I’ve given it a lot of thought and…
Lorenzo (Interrupting her:) Don’t tell me you hadn’t thought about it until now! We’ve been planning this for almost a year! Just yesterday you said “I’d like not to come back to Madrid if I can help it”! What’s happened so suddenly?
Julieta: Don't insist...please.


How can she possibly connect the dots so that he will understand?

Julieta: Last night I realized that I was fooling myself, that I don’t want to leave Madrid, and… that I prefer to be alone. I’m sorry.
Lorenzo [knowing he will not get the explanation]: I always knew there was something important in your life that you’ve never shared with me. You never wanted to talk about it and I’ve always respected that.
Julieta: I'd like you to keep respecting it.

...

Julieta [voiceover in a letter to her daughter]: I’m going to tell you everything I didn’t have a chance to tell you, because you were a child, because it was too painful for me or simply out of shame. But you’re not a child anymore. Beatriz told me that you have children of your own, three, no less. You’re a grown woman, and a mother! Where do I begin?...I’ll tell you about your father. When you asked me how I met him, I told you it was on a train, but I didn’t tell you everything.


And thus the narrative --- the existential contraption --- begins to unfold.

Julieta: He was sitting there, where you are now. He wanted to talk, but… I was bothered by the way he was looking at me and I ran out of here… How was I to know he was feeling so awful!
Xoan: Any girl would have done the same…
Julieta: (Reproaching herself) I should have realized!
Xoan: Don’t torture yourself. He would still have killed himself.
Julieta: Why was he carrying an empty suitcase?
Xoan: I don’t know. Maybe he didn’t want to attract attention. He had it all planned before he got on the train. No one kills himself because a pretty girl doesn’t want to talk to him.

...

Julieta [younger as a substitute teacher]: Pontos is sea and high sea. And it refers to the sea as a road, the road to adventure. That is why Ulysses is the maritime hero par excellence. For example, when Ulysses arrives on Calypso’s island, exhausted after a shipwreck, the nymph Calypso who was unbelievably beautiful… Tell me something that she offered him, something really important.
Student: Her body.
Julieta: That’s the first thing. But also… something we all dream about?
Student: Eternal youth.
Julieta: Exactly, and immortality. Yet Ulysses refused it and set out to sea, facing endless dangers. Which of the three meanings would you choose to speak of the sea that Ulysses yearned for?
Student: Thalassa!
Julieta: No.
Student: Pontos.
Julieta: That’s it, pontos! The sea, the high sea, the road to adventure and the unknown.

...

Julieta [voiceover in her letter to her daughter]: I didn’t have a job, I wasn’t in a hurry. I thought I’d stay for just a few days. I had to tell Xoan something but I kept putting it off. It was a new life, strange for a woman who had come from the sun, but welcoming. I spent the nights flying in Xoan’s arms. I felt trapped, and free at the same time.

...

Julieta [to Ava]: The gods created man and other beings with the help of clay and fire. They gave them the attributes they needed for their survival. Some were given fur and others wings for flying. When it was man’s turn, the gods discovered that they had no gifts left, so man was born naked and defenseless, in the midst of nature....
[Ava continues to with her work]
Julieta: I'm pregnant, Ava.

...

Marian: Are you serious about giving private classes?
Julieta: Yes.
Marian: I think you’re making a mistake.
Julieta: I don’t want to be just a housewife, Marian. I have a profession that I like and I’ve wanted to go back to it for some time.
Marian: A woman’s profession is her family. If you want to keep it united it’s best to stay at home.
Julieta: That’s my business.
Marian: If you go, the same old thing will happen.
Julieta [glaring at her]: What do you mean? What same old thing?
[Marian glares back...and says nothing]


Let's just say it revolves around that age-old "battle of the sexes". You know the part.

Julieta [voiceover in her letter to Antia]: Things happened without my participation, one thing foretelling the next....Bea and you found an apartment near where she lived… You made me rent it… By then I was exhausted… but you were strong as a rock. You had suddenly grown up…You went back home with Ava, to close the house and put it up for sale. Bea looked after me in Madrid. I wouldn't have survived without you two....I got over my depression with your help and I found a job I could do at home, proofreading for a publisher. I devoted the rest of my time to you, I didn’t need anything else.

...

Juana [who runs the "spiritual retreat" that Antia went to]: Yes, this is the house. When Antía wrote to you she thought she’d be here, but in the end she decided to leave.
Julieta: She could have let me know! I’ve driven here from Madrid.
Juana: I know.
Julieta: And where did she go? I hope it’s near here!
Juana: I can’t tell you.
Julieta: What?!
Juana: I can’t tell you where she is. I’m sorry.
Julieta: You mean you don’t know? You’re in charge here!
Juana: I’d be lying if I said no. Antía asked me not to tell you.
Julieta (Incredulous): This is ridiculous! Are you insinuating that my daughter doesn’t want to see me?
Juana: Look, Julieta. Antía has chosen her own path and you are not part of it. I understand that for a mother that must be painful, but she begs you to accept it.
Julieta: I think I’m going to call the police.
Juana: Do as you wish, but it would be best if you started to accept reality. I understand that this isn’t easy…
Julieta: What did you do to my daughter in these three months?!
Juana: We helped her. Your daughter arrived here in a state of extreme need.
Julieta: Need?! Of what?! She’s never wanted for anything!
Juana: Nevertheless she felt very unhappy. Here she discovered that her life was lacking a… spiritual dimension.
Julieta: What do you mean?
Juana: I understand that your daughter didn’t grow up in a home based on faith. And she found that here.
Julieta: I want her to tell me that herself! Where is she?
Juana: I can’t tell you.

...

Juana: What matters is that Antía is better than ever and she’s happy. If you stop thinking about yourself for a moment and think about her you should be happy.
Julieta: You can’t tell me that!
Juana: Don’t despair. Perhaps she will decide to get in touch with you, but give her time.

...

Julieta [voiceover in her letter to Antia]: I reported your disappearance to the police, I hired a private detective. For the first months I did nothing but look for you every way I could. The only thing I discovered was how little I knew you.

...

Julieta [voiceover in her letter to Antia]: For the first three years, I bought you a cake on your birthday. I was consoled by the idea of celebrating the arrival of a card from you, and at least seeing your handwriting on the address. I didn’t expect more, but even that was expecting too much. The first three years, throwing a cake in the garbage to celebrate your birthday became a tradition.

...

Ava [to Julieta]: When we went to close up your house in Redes, Marian came and told Antia all the details about Xoan’s last day. Your argument, my visit and how Xoan put out to sea even though it was very rough that day.
Julieta: Antía didn’t say anything to me. She never asked me anything.
Ava: She did ask me, she wanted me to confirm if you’d argued because of me, and if it was true that the sea was choppy. I had no idea about the state of the sea. As for the rest, I told her that they weren’t subjects to discuss with a child. She went crazy, she told me I was a whore and blamed you and me for Xoan going fishing…

...

Ava: Antia asked me the same questions again. Only one detail had changed: the guilt had spread to the three of us, she was including herself.
Julieta: And… why did she feel guilty?
Ava: She’d been away, having a good time at camp.
[Julieta listens, shocked. Every word that Ava says increases the conviction that her daughter was a stranger, that she didn’t know her]
Ava: I told her that none of us was guilty of what happened, and that if we were guilty, we’d already suffered enough punishment. Do you know what Antía answered?
[Julieta shakes her head]
Ava: That we all get what we deserve.

...

Julieta [voiceover in the letter to Antia]: I raised you in the same freedom as my parents had raised me… When we moved to Madrid and I fell into that depression, I never told you but I was suffocated by a tremendous sense of guilt about your father’s death and that of the man on the train. I always avoided talking about it, I wanted you to grow up free of guilt. But you sensed it, and despite my silence I ended up infecting you like a virus.

...

Julieta [voiceover in the letter to Antia]: When an ex-drug addict, no matter how many years he’s been clean, relapses just once, that relapse is fatal… (She sighs) I abstained from you for years, but I made the mistake of relapsing into the hope of finding you or hearing about you. That absurd hope has devoured the fragile basis on which I had built my new life. I’ve got nothing left now. Only you exist. Your absence fills my life completely and is destroying it.

...

Julieta: Did you really meet her, like you told me?
Bea: Yes, I met her and it was very unpleasant, I didn’t tell you that.
Julieta (Puzzled): Unpleasant? Why?
Bea: Antía didn’t want to talk to me, she did everything she could to avoid me. She said she didn’t know me, that I’d mistaken her for someone else. But I knew it was her. In the end she had no choice but to talk to me.
Julieta: Is it true about the children? She has children?
Bea: Yes, three. When I saw her she had two of them with her.
Juliets: But why didn’t she want to talk to you? You were her best friend!
Bea: We were more than that, Julieta. After the camp we were inseparable. Don’t you remember?
Julieta: Yes… of course, you were always together.
Bea: We couldn’t live without each other! It’s a pity that at the end it was hell.
Julieta: Hell?
Bea: I see you know nothing.
Julieta: No, I don’t know anything.
Bea: I decided to go and study Design in New York to get away from her. I didn’t give her my address but I called her and that was when Antía told me she’d decided to go away to a retreat in the Pyrenees. I just wanted her to leave me in peace.
Julieta: And…did you speak again? Were you in touch?
Bea: Well, she called me once… but she was already a different person.
Julieta: In what way?
Bea: She told me that she regretted our relationship and was ashamed of it. And she didn’t want to know anything about me. She said that she was a new person, that she’d finally found her path and I wasn’t part of it. She sounded like a fanatic, Julieta. She scared me.

...

Antia [voiceover in a letter to Julieta]: Dear mom, I don’t know if you’re still in Madrid or if you’re living in the same house, but I have no other address to write to you. I have three children. Xoan, the eldest, was only nine when he drowned in a river. And I am insane with grief. In these moments, the worst of my whole life, I’m thinking of you. Now I understand what you must have suffered when I disappeared… I couldn’t imagine it. Unless you’ve suffered it you can’t imagine it.

...

Julieta: I’m not going to ask her for an explanation. I just want to be with her, but she didn’t invite me to visit her.
Lorenzo: After thirteen years she didn’t dare, but she put her return address.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:07 pm

I. You. We. Them.

No getting around that in human interaction. One way or another, a cultural and historical combination of customs, traditions, folkways, mores and laws will accrue that predispose members of a community to either embrace or eschew one or another set of behaviors. One or another set of punishments and rewards.

And whether philosophers are ever able to establish [in the end] which behaviors reasonable men and women are obligated to embrace or eschew, we all have to come up with our own preferences.

On the other hand, these interactions can unfold rather differently when a distinction is made between a postmodern, industrial state and "tribal communities" [the few remaining] in our postmodern, industrial world. In the former, individual options are considerably more, shall we say, eclectic. While, in the latter, everything still more or less revolves around a proper place for everyone and everyone in his or her proper place. A clearly tribal narrative.

Now, traditionally, when it comes to marriage, it is the tribal chief's prerogative to arrange them on Tanna. Both within the tribe and between the tribes. And for centuries. And, so, if a modern day Romeo and Juliet decide instead that love shall conquer all, a "conflicting good" will arise.

Tragically in this case.

What ought to be done here you might ask. What sort of "pact" between the "old ways" and the "new ways" will facilitate the least dysfunctional path into the future. Also, what do we have to learn from them, what do they have to learn from us?

This is clearly a patriarchal society. Is that "natural?' In other words, as some insist, rooted more in genes than in memes?

Based on a true story.

IMDb

The only language spoken in the film is Nauvhal.

The picture the Shaman (Albi Nangia) shows to Wawa to explain arranged marriage is a real picture taken when Nangia and other Tannese met Prince Philip in Buckingham Palace in 2007.


wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanna_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/HVpiY06oLZc


TANNA [2015]
Directed by: Martin Butler, Bentley Dean

Title card: Since the beginning of time, the chiefs have arranged marriage along the Kastom Roads, but two lovers chose to walk a different path...

...

Wawa: I've missed you. You've been away too long.
Dain: You're all grown up now. A beautiful butterfly.
[Dain plays her a song]
Wawa: You catch a lot of butterflies like that?

...

Wawa: What did you see?
Selin: I saw you playing with the chief's grandson.
Wawa: Don't say anything to mum or dad. They'll get angry.
Selin: Do you want me to lie for you?

...

Father: Selin, what are you doing running into forbidden ground? The Imedin have killed our people here. Never come here again. The warriors are everywhere.

...

Woman [to Wawa]: Soon the chiefs will arrange your marriage to another tribe. You'll sit with me to learn about being a good wife and a good mother.
Mother: You're a woman now.

...

Grandfather [to Selin]: See that bay? That's where Captain Cook landed. All across the island people have left the old ways. They've become lost. Our tribes are the last keepers of Kastom. We have to hold it tight to survive...Yahul has been here longer than any of us. She is the source of life, love and Kastom. When you look into Her heart, you will understand. Don't be afraid of Her.


Yahul is an active volcano. But that's not what assaults him.

Chief: Listen to the song. It's telling us forgiveness is the only way to bring the Kastom Roads together. You want the tribe to survive? The song of peace will bring our shaman back. I'd like you to listen to the words again. "Wisdom comes through suffering, killing only brings sorrow. One side struggles for power, the other takes revenge. Divided children of Tanna, join together in peace." Go back to our beginnings, hear the wisdom of the ancestors and live once more in harmony.

There is how each one of them react to that; and there is how each one of us will react to it.

Chief: I loved your father as you did. Now we only have each other. We have each other.
Dain: I want revenge.
Chief: If you want to be a good chief one day, you must move beyond revenge.

...

Wawa: Dain, what's wrong?
Dain: The Imedin slit my father's throat. My grandfather is telling me to forget that. I can't stop thinking about what I saw. They speared my mother. When I found her in the garden, she was still alive. I picked her up and held her. She looked up at me and tried to say something, but the spear had gone through her chest. I'll never forgive them. I want my revenge.
Wawa: Dain, I couldn't bear the thought of that happening to my father and mother. But we can't keep doing terrible things to each other. We need to live without fear. Would you want our kids to live under this threat?
Dain: Our kids?


Cue the irony.

Chief: Mikum, it's time for our tribes to resume exchanging brides. Lingai's eldest daughter, Wawa, has just become a woman. Take her as a bride.
Mikum: I accept your offer of the bride. Her husband will be my son Kapan Cook. Bring her in two days and we'll give you a bride from our tribe.
[Dain storms away enraged]

...

Mother: Wawa, listen, you are getting married.
Wawa: I want to choose who I marry.
Mother: This is not about you, it's about all of us. Do you understand?


I...you...we...them.

Grandmother: Where do these ideas come from? If you follow your heart, the Imedin will take revenge. It will be bad for all of us....Wawa, we understand you. We've all experienced what you're feeling. My marriage was arranged, like everyone's was. I respected my parents and I've been here a long time. I've never had any regrets. If you disobey us, your life will be miserable.

...

Grandmother: Look at me, Wawa. Agree.
Wawa: I can't go to the Imedin. I slept with Dain and they won't take me now.

...

Chief: I can't believe your stupidity! Dain! What were you thinking? Who do you think you are? What gave you the right? I promised Wawa to the Imedin and you deliberately broke the agreement. Very well. You were the one who was going to take my place one day. But you've dishonoured us all. You must leave. Go to Yahul. You're not welcome here anymore. Now leave.

...

Shaman: I know you don't accept the chief's decision. But I want to tell you how important it is that you do. Arranged marriage is at the heart of Kastom. Without these alliances, we could not survive. Here, I want to show you something.
[he holds out a magazine and turns to a photograph]
Shaman: You know Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip? Their marriage was arranged too.
Wawa: Did they love each other?
Shaman: They respected their elders' decision. It's true. Look...their love gave them children. His name is Charlie.
Wawa: But how do you know they really loved each other?
Shaman [holding out a photograph]: Here. Remember when I went to their house and I met Philip? I saw with my own eyes he loved her.

...

Tribal chief [coming upon Wawa and Dain]: Good morning. You are very welcome, but I'd like to know why you are here.
Wawa: We're in love, but our chiefs won't allow us to be together. We wanted to ask if we might live here.
Tribal chief: Sorry, I'm the chief of this village. I'm really sorry. I'd like to help but... I'd have to seek permission from your chiefs to avoid any trouble.
Wawa: We'll go then.
Tribal chief: Wait, you've cooked a lot of food. Eat before you leave. Listen... there could be another way. There's a Christian village around the bay. They have their service today. They welcome new people and they're not strict about Kastom law.

...

Mikum: Chief Charlie, you have spoken. Now it's my turn. We'll kill Dain and get Wawa. Now go. All of you, get out!

...

Dain: We could live in the forest.
Wawa: That's a hard life. Living with the Christians might be easier.

...

Christian tribal woman: You were led by sin to live in the wild. We will clothe you. Our leader will show you the light.
Christian tribal chief: I had a vision you were coming. Come live and pray with us. We'll tell your families to come and witness your union before God.
Dain: Telling our families is a problem. They'll never allow us to be together. Is there another way?
Christian tribal chief: Our God always listens to our prayers. I promise you'll be safe.
Dain: We are thankful for your generosity, but I want to talk about it with Wawa.
Christian tribal chief: You need to join us for God to do His work.

...

Dain: These people freak me out.
Wawa: Me too. Let's try the forest.

...

Wawa I miss Selin. I wonder what she's doing now.
Dain: Why are you thinking about Selin?
Wawa: She's my sister. I miss her. You miss your grandfather, don't you?
Dain: He banished me. That part of my life is over.

...

Father: Dain, the Imedin are out to kill you.
Dain: I know that. Go back and tell them we're dead. We'll live together in the forest.
Father: You can't hide from the Imedin forever. They will hunt you down. They will kill my daughter if she stays with you.
Wawa: I'm not leaving Dain.
Father: If you don't go to the Imedin, there'll be war. No one will be safe.

...

Shaman: The Imedin are out there and it will be dark soon. We'll sleep here and tomorrow we'll take Wawa to the Imedin.
Dain: Your father is right. You have to go with them.
Shaman: Dain, we can ask your grandfather to take you back.
Dain: No. The Imedin won't let me live, wherever I am.
[he turns to Wawa]
Dain: To live, you have to go with them.
Wawa: I'm not leaving you.

...

Father [helping to carry Wawa's body, shouting to the tribe]: We found Dain and Wawa. They are dead. We're bringing them home.

...

Chief [to the entire tribe]: My heart is heavy. Our precious seedlings have been cut down. We've always fought to keep Kastom strong. The colonial powers - we resisted. The Christians - we resisted. The lure of money - we resisted that also. We are the last keepers of Kastom and we are few. The young people here will carry our future. We must listen to them to keep Kastom strong. We have to find a way to make love marriage part of Kastom. No more deaths.

...

Title card: Since the suicides of 1987 the tribes of Tanna have accepted love marriage as part of their Kastom.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:06 pm

Sleight of hand.

Sleight of mind.

Sleight being, "the use of dexterity or cunning, especially so as to deceive."

And, if you are a magician plying your trade "out on the mean streets", you might need to combine both in order merely to survive.

Bo is on his own. Mom and Dad are gone. And he has a young sister to raise. And, since being a street magician doesn't pay all the bills, he finds it necessary to go considerably outside the law in order to survive. Maybe even thrive.

But selling dope is fraught with all manner of unintended consequences. And, before too long, he finds himself in way over his head. One truly fucked up thing leads to another. Now the number one gangster has kidnapped his sister. And he needs all the sleight he can muster to get her back.

Dope and dollars. As long as the two are intertwined there will always be folks on both sides of the consequences. Unintended or otherwise.

The thing about Bo though is that while you're rooting for him, you also recognize that he can be a very unlikeable piece of shit.

As for the magic, well, you tell me: real or entirely scripted? And then the part about how far some magicians will go in order to create a mind-boggling "effect". And, finally, the part where the dope narrative reconfigures into a science fiction yarn. If that's the right way to describe it.

Others no doubt will describe it as the part where they "jump the shark". The part that gets simply preposterous.

IMDb

The playing cards used in the film are Black Fontaines by Zach Mueller.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleight
trailer: https://youtu.be/ORL1d7GWoBc


SLEIGHT [2016]
Written in part and directed by J.D. Dillard

Holly: What about you?
Bo: Well, my dad passed a while back, and my mom passed last year, so it's just me and my little sister, Tina, the love of my life. She's such a smart kid, you know. I just wish I can move her into a neighborhood with a better school. Surround her with better people. She's gonna be something big. I know it.


Cue the dope narrative:

Bo [after Packy gives him a gun]: What's going on?
Angelo: Found out where this Maurice guy lives. Homie moves into our backyard and starts selling coke like I don't exist. I mean, we're gonna pay him a little visit. Talk to him about etiquette. Let's go.

...

Angelo: Maurice. You and I, we could be friends. We really could. And if you don't like me, we could at least be co-workers. And we both know you don't always have to like your co-workers. So, your options. You can go back to wherever the fuck you came from, or you can get comfortable, stay right here, sell my shit, and kick me 30%. Think about it. Let me know.


Segue to the look on Bo's face.

Bo: I never thought it'd get dangerous.
Georgi: You guys never done something like this before?
Bo: A stick-up? No. Hell no. And that's what I liked about Angelo. I mean, he didn't seem like the gangbanger. Just a cool guy who'd help me make money off kids who wanted to party. I don't know, this is turning into something I would've never signed up for. And I thought this whole thing would be temporary. I mean, a year flashes by and I'm still a drug dealer. I need to get out of this, Georgi. Now.

...

Angelo: His hand or yours, Bo.

...

Bo: Selling all this, I could pay Angelo his cut and still walk away with $15,000. That's enough money to get out.
Georgi: Even if you sell all this, you really think Angelo's gonna let you leave?
Bo: I don't know. I hope.
Georgi: I know it's not my place to say this, but there's no one else here to say it to you. I don't want you to do this. It's too dangerous.
Bo: I'm sorry. It's already done.

...

Holly: What is that?
Bo: What?
Holly: That thing in your arm?
Bo: Oh, uh... It's part of an effect.
Holly: But what is it? It looks kind of infected.
Bo: It's not that bad.
Holly: Bo, for a magic trick? Why would you do that to yourself?

...

Holly: Did he tell you how he did the trick?
Bo: It wasn't a trick. It was real. I mean, for a year, this guy stabbed a knife through his hand. Each time, he cut a little deeper, let the scar tissue grow. Then do it again. After a while, he had stabbed a clean hole straight through. And because of the scar tissue, there was no blood. So, when he performed, he just covered his hands with a little bit of latex and it'd look like brand-new skin. That's the effect. I mean, it's so obvious, but you wouldn't think anyone would go that far.
Holly: Yeah, he cut a freakin' hole in his hand. I mean, is all that worth it just for a trick? I mean, can't you do tricks that don't hurt you?
Bo: Anyone can learn a trick, but doing something no one else is willing to do makes you a magician. I can do something no one else can.

...

Angelo [to Bo with a gun to his face]: You know what? I want my kilo's full value back without you taking a cut. Obviously. Another 15 since you doubled my product. And let's throw one more 15k on top of that for asshole tax. So, if you're following me, that's 45k, and I want it by midnight next Sunday. Now get the fuck out of my house.

...

Holly [looking at Bo's bruised face]: What happened?
Bo: Hey. I messed up, okay? I messed up bad.

...

Tina [to Bo]: Is something bad going to happen to us?

...

Mr. Granger: Bo. Building an electromagnet in a shoebox is one thing, but in your arm?

...

Bo [to Mr. Granger]: The negative is fed to my thumb and the positive to the rest of the fingers. The board is programed to read all the different inputs. It gives me a little bit of control over pitch, yaw and roll. But I need more power. I mean, the lithium-ions last a while, but their output, it's just...I need more output.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:07 am

A woman may or may not be mysterious.

But in most films if the woman is mysterious she is almost certainly going to be beautiful in turn. And this film is no exception.

It reaches the point where most of us can't even imagine a film like this where the woman is mysterious and [instead] is singularly unattractive.

Then you begin to wonder about the part where the genes segue into the memes. Is this reaction "natural"? Or [instead] is it derived more from a "sexist" historical narrative imposed upon us by a "patriarchal" culture?

Here though the beautiful mysterious woman may also be a beautiful mysterious murderer. And the first thing our protagonist Philip aims to do when she returns is to strangle her: "Whatever it cost my cousin in pain and suffering before he died I will return with full measure upon the woman that caused it." That is until he is "stunned to discover a woman not only beautiful but elegant, intelligent and sensitive." Will he perhaps fall in love with her?

And this was "back then". Long before the advent of one or another rendition of "feminism". An attempt to imagine the "plight" [and the options] of women in a world very much different from our own.

That is, not counting the part really very much the same.

It's one of those mysteries in which we are never entirely sure if she did it or not. But what counts is not whether she did it but whether or not others think that she did.

Look for the part about class. If you can find it.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Cousin ... (2017_film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/vVaPJxe0Qxs

IMDb

The white horse Rachel Weisz rides in the film had been trained for the TV series Game of Thrones (2011) and was taught to 'play dead' when its rider tugged hard on the left rein. Being unaware of this, at one point Rachel got partially trapped under the horse's left flank for a brief period after it rolled over onto its left side.


MY COUSIN RACHEL [2017]
Directed by Roger Michell

Philip [voiceover]: Did she? Didn't she? Who was to blame? He was my cousin. But I loved him like a father.

...

Philip [voiceover]: They say a boy needs as mother. But the only women allowed in the house were the dogs.

...

Louise: She must be extremely charming for Ambrose to have noticed her.
Philip: What do you mean?
Louise: Oh, I've never heard of him admiring a woman before.
Kendall: She's right. Your cousin never had much need for women.
Philip: Why should he? He had me.

...

Philip [reading aloud a letter from Ambrose]: "I have written to you several times, but she watches me like a hawk and there is no one that I can trust to take my letters to the mail. She is away from the house today. That's why I am able to write this. For weeks I've been ill, feers, terrible headaches. I am sick at the sight of the sun."

...

Louise [noticing a message penned on the envelope flap]: "She has done for me at last. Rachel, my torment. For god's sake, come quickly."

...

Philip: How did he die?
Rainaldi: It was a tumor. In the head. The doctors are in no doubt it affected his brain.
Philip: How?
Rainaldi: Shouting. Violence. Terrible distrust.


We know where this takes us.

Philip: I believe nothing of what you have told me. I believe that had I been here, my cousin would still be alive. And whatever it cost my cousin in pain and suffering before he died I will return with full measure upon the woman that caused it.

...

Kendall: It's the same will I drew up ten years ago. No provision to be made for a wife.
Philip: Are you sure?
Kendall: Quite sure...and there's no mention anywhere of a claim on the part of Mrs. Ashley.
Philip: I'm amazed.
Kendall: Why?
Philip: We know perfectly well she drove him to his death.
Kendall: We know nothing of the sort. If that's the way you are going to talk about your cousin's widow, I prefer not to listen.

...

Philip: Surely you don't believe all this nonesense about the tumor?
Kendall: Here is the death certificate and an account of the post mortem. And what possible motive could she have with nothing to gain from his death? So yes, why wouldn't I believe?

...

Louise: What are you going to do with her?
Philip: Confront her. Of course she will try to bluster her way out of it...I want justice for Ambrose.

...

Philip: Where the devil are the dogs?!
Seecomb: I think they followed her up the stairs.

...

Rachel: How pernickety you are.
Philip: I thought you lot worried about things like that
Rachel: You lot?
Philip: Women.
Rachel: Only when they have nothing else to worry about.

...

Rachel [to Philip of Ambrose]: All of this was his passion....so I made it my passion too.

...

Rachel [at the dinner table]: Who would like to join me in drinking this delicious port wine. Unless of course the men wish to retire to the next room while we smoke our pipes.

...

Philip: The Vicar finds you feminine. "Extremely feminine" were his exact words.
Rachel: I wonder in what way?
Philip: I suppose in a way that's different to Mrs. Pascoe.
Rachel: Mmm. And how would you define the difference...our femininity? Mrs. Pascoe's and mine.
Philip: God knows. All I know is I like looking at you...and I don't like looking at Mrs. Pascoe.

...

Kendall: What shall we give her?
Philip: Think of a number that is fair and reasonable...then double it.

...

Louise: The Pascoe girls are far too busy remarking on something else.
Philip: What?
Louise: How easy it must be for a woman like your cousin Rachel to twist you around her little finger.

...

Rachel: You made him write this!
Philip: What...did you...I did nothing of the sort.
Rachel: If you had set out to humiliate me, Philip, you really couldn't have got off to a better start!
Philip: Why?
Rachel: Why?! Because now it looks as if I came begging to you!
Philip: But you haven't. You didn't.
Rachel: Can't you let me be a person in my own right? A woman who is making her way in the world as she wishes to.


Beautifully played? She accepts the allowance. And agrees to stay.

Rachel: Why should women suffer in childbirth? Is it simply their destiny to do so?
Philip: Never thought about it.
Rachel: No, of course you haven't. You know nothing about women.

...

Kendall [to Philip]: I've had some news from the bank. Some rather disturbing news, in fact....Your cousin is already severely overdrawn on her account. I can only think she's been sending money out of the country.

...

Kendall: I've been doing a little asking around. Did you know that the duel in which her first husband died was fought over one of her lovers?
Philip [scoffing]: I don't believe that.
Kendall: They were notorious. Both him and her, for unbridled extravagance, and apparently limitless...appetite.

...

Kendall: Does she have any knowledge of this?
Philip: None whatsoever.
Kendall: And you're quite determined on this course?
Philip: Quite.
Kendall: You're completely infatuated with your cousin are you not?
Philip: I'm just doing what I believe is right.
Kendall: You realize that you could lose everything?
Philip: I'm willing to take that risk.

...

Rachel [to Philip]: Had I known I was coming into a fortune, I would have given you a considerably larger pearl.

...

Servant: Mistresses compliments.
Philip: What is it?
Servant: Twig soup....Special brew she says. Birthday brew. She says you've got to drink the lot.

...

Philip: Didn't you enjoy it?
Rachel: Well, didn't you?
Philip: You know I did.
Rachel: I wanted you to enjoy it. I wanted to thank you.
Philip: For what?
Rachel: For what? For everything. For being so kind to me. For the jewels. What did you...did you...did you think that you had bought me?

...

Philip: You know nothing about her?
Lousie: Or is it you who know nothing?

...

Philip: I thought she said yes but in fact she meant no.
Louise: Was this before or after she read the document?
Philip: Before. She read it the morning after.
Louise: And wasted no time in driving over to see us.
Philip: She said she didn't fully understand it.
Louise: Well she understood it pretty damn well by the time she left.

...

Philip: How long was I out?
Servant: Five days.

...

Philip: Are you leaving me?
[Rachel says nothing]
Philip: You should have left me to die.
Rachel [abruptly]: Don't. Soon none of this will seem quite so bad. You belong here. In a little while you'll be strong again and everything will be just as it was before I came. You are at the beginning of everything. A boy. How can I live with a boy? However lovely. A glorious puppy, wandering around, mireable and wet-nosed, looking for its mother.


She nailed him.

Philip: Why is Rainaldi here?
Rachel: Because I asked him.

...

Rachel [with a tray of tea cups to Louise]: Oh, no, not that one, it's for Philip.
[she walks over to Philip]
Rachel: Here.
Philip: No, thank you.
Rachel: Oh, but this is a special batch. I've made it double strength.
Philip: Well, then you drink it for me.

...

Philip [to Rachel who is about to go riding]: You might try the cliff path.

...

Louise: The jewelry. She's giving it back.
Philip: Keep looking.
Louise: I don't know what we're looking for.
Philip: Keep looking!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:46 pm

Some will argue that they don't make bastards [or sons of bitches] quite like they do down South. Good Ole Boys. Rednecks. Poor white trash. Bubbas.

Of course that's just a personal prejudice. Though, sure, maybe not.

In particular however when the folks who have to weave in and out of their lives are from "the wrong side of the tracks". Lives that are often bursting at the seams with "tough choices". Sometimes then it's not a matter of winning or losing but of losing more mercifully.

And when you're struggling to raise an "illegitimate" child in the midst of all this, it just ups the ante all that much more.

In other words, this ain't the only kind of bastard in the film.

Still, some bastards of the first kind are considerably more sons of bitches than others. For example when it revolves around the abuse of children. Still, even here, expect your reaction to be embedded in the particular frame of mind you bring to the film. Or, as one reviewer put it, "...it is not a movie with pat answers and predictable solutions, but manages to show the complexities involved in each situation. There are no cardboard characters either, as in real life not everyone is totally good or evil, though their actions may dip into either category from time to time."

But there will always be folks who watch films like this and figure, fuck it, they aren't worth caring about anyway. But even if you hold tight to these prejudices regarding the adults, how the hell can you inflict them on the children as well.

Though some no doubt will.

IMDb

Ron Eldard spent a lot of time playing sports with Jena Malone so they would both feel comfortable performing the scenes in which he is physically abusing her. He claimed that in no scene did inappropriate contact with Malone take place, and that for scenes in which he appears to grab her by the throat, he is actually only holding her by his fingertips. Eldard was adamant that the graphic depiction of sexual abuse and rape was a necessity for the film.

Originally produced for Turner Network Television, the network ultimately rejected it due to scenes of sexual abuse. It was subsequently picked up by the Showtime channel.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_o ... lina_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/za1Ys7Fcrcg


BASTARD OUT OF CAROLINA [1996]
Directed by Anjelica Huston

Bone [narrating]: "People pay for what they do, and still more for what they allow themselves to become. And they pay for it simply; by the lives they lead." James Baldwin.

...

Bone [narrating]: The day I was born started off bad and only got worse. I guess I was lucky I got born at all.

...

Bone [narrating]: I got the nickname Bone from Uncle Earle. He took one look at me and said, "She ain't no bigger than a knucklebone." Neither aunt Ruth nor Granny could write very clearly and they hadn't bothered to discuss how Anne would be spelled. So it wound up three different ways on the form. As for the name of the father, Granny refused to speak it after she'd run him out of town for messing with her daughter. Aunt Ruth had never been sure of his last name anyway. They tried to get away with just scribbling something down... but if the hospital didn't mind how a baby's middle name was spelled... they were definite about having a father's last name. Granny gave one, Ruth gave another, the clerk got mad... and there I was, certified a bastard by the state of South Carolina.


That particular demographic in other words.

Granny: Ruth Anne's all right, but Mattie Raylene would've been better. 'Course nobody bothered to ask me.
Anney: Nobody bothered to ask you? Nobody bothered to ask me. It's my baby.
Granny: That's your own damn fault for sleepin' three whole days.
Anney: I had a concussion, Mama!

...

Anney [talking to Bone as a baby]: I don't care what they say, Bone. I won't have anybody call you trash. That stamp on your birth certificate, it's one they already got for me. No good. Lazy. Shiftless. I work my ass off over other people's peanuts... and they look at me like I'm a rock on the ground. No matter how hard I try, I still can't get away from it. One soft-talking, black-eyed man fixed that. He set a mark on me. And set a mark on you. Don't you worry, Bone. You've got me now, and I've got you. We'll stick together, the two of us.

...

Ruth [to Anney after Lyle dies]: Nothing else will ever hit you this hard. Now you look like a Boatwright, now you've got the look. You're as old as you're ever going get, girl. This is the way you'll look till the day you die.

...

Bone [now a young girl]: Granny, something's burning! Something big.

...

Granny: There's something wrong with that boy, Anney. He's always looking at me out of the sides of his eyes, like some old junkyard dog trying to steal a bone. And you're the bone he wants.
Anney: So? What's wrong with that? You want me to spend the rest of my life working my ass off until I dry up and can't even imagine marrying again?
Granny: Earle says he's got a temper on him.
Anney: Earle's one to talk. Besides, do you know a man who doesn't have a temper?

...

Anney: What do you think, honey? Think I'm doing the right thing?
Bone: I don't know.
Anney: I think I am. I hope I am. Sometimes I just get so tired, you know. Sometimes I just want somebody strong to stand by me. Stay with me.
Bone: I'll stay with you.
Anney: I know you will, Bone.

...

Reese: Why can't we go, Bone? Why can't we?
Bone: 'Cause it ain't for children.

...

Anney [after Earle stops the truck]: What are you doing, Earle?
Earle: Giving you a chance to change your mind.
Anney: Hellfire, Earle, I'm not going to change my mind. I've got a man who loves me.
Earle: He loves you alright... Like a gambler loves a fast racehorse, or a desperate man loves whiskey.
Anney: You're just jealous.
Earle: Maybe I am.

...

Glen: Doctor says it's gonna be a while, but she's doin' just fine. I know she's worried. She thinks if it's a girl I ain't gonna love it. It'll still be our baby. Even if she did have a girl, we'll just have another soon enough. I'll have my son. Anney and I will have our little baby boy. I know it. I just know it. Come here.
[he puts Bone on his lap]
Glen: Your Mama's going be alright. And I love you Bone. I know you don't believe me, but I do. We're going to be happy. Real happy. Everything's going to be alright.
[all this time he is using Bone to masturbate]
Glen: Get in the back, Bone. Go on, go to sleep.

...

Glen [to Bone, weeping, after Anney miscarries]: Your Mama's going to be alright. But she won't have no more babies. My baby's dead. My boy. My boy...

...

Bone [narrating]: Moving gave me sense of time passing and everything sliding...as if nothing could be held onto anyway. It made me feel, ghostly unreal, unimportant. Like a box that goes missing, turns up but you realize you never needed anything in it anyway.

...

Anney [after Glen grips Bone on the arm]: Oh, Jesus, Glen. You don't know your own strength.
Glen: I guess I don't. But Bone knows I'd never mean to hurt her. Bone knows I love her. Hell, Anney, I love all of you. You know that.
Bone [narrating]: No, he never meant to hurt me. Not really, I told myself. But more and more those hands seemed to move before he could think. My dreams were full of long fingers, hands that reached around door frames, crept over the edge of the mattress, fear in me like a river, like the ice dark blue of his eyes.

...

Anney: Soda crackers and ketchup! You're so casual about finding another job, but I feed my girls that garbage while you sit on your ass all day, smoking and telling lies.
Glen: I was out looking for a job all day.
Anney: How many? How many people did you see?
Glen [hesitantly]: A lot.
Anney: Not my kids. I was never gonna have my girls know what it was like. I was never gonna have them go hungry or cold or scared. Never, you hear me? Never!

...

Anney [to Bone after Glen had beaten her]: What did you do, honey? What did you do to make him so mad?

...

Glen [to Anney]: I never meant to beat her that bad. I swear I didn't. I would never. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, baby.

...

Reese: You made him mad, Bone. You better be careful.

...

Bone [narrating]: Glen always found something I'd done, something I had to be told. Something he just had to do because he loved me so much. I lived in a world of shame. I hid my bruises as if they were evidence of crimes I had committed. I didn't tell Mama. I couldn't tell Mama.

...

Anney: Something's wrong with her, Glen.
Glen: She's just accident-prone. She's always getting into something. Falling out of trees, falling off the porch. Lucky she's such a hard-headed brat.
Anney: Maybe I ought to get her some vitamins, or something.

...

Doctor: How'd she break her coccyx?
Anney: Her what?
Doctor: Her tailbone, lady! Her ass! What you been hitting' this child with, or maybe you just been throwin' her up against the damn wall!
Anney: What are you sayin'? What are you sayin'?
Doctor [to Bone]: Do you wanna talk about it, honey? How 'bout we ask your mama to leave, and then, maybe you can tell me what happened, okay?
Anney: Let me have my girl!
Doctor: This child's been beaten! This child's been beaten, and I'm gonna call the authorities!

...

Bone [narrating]: We stayed at Aunt Alma's until I got better but Daddy Glen said he couldn't live without Mama's love. She made him swear he would never lay a hand on me again.

...

Ruth: Has he ever touched you, honey? Has he ever messed with you? Down here, honey. Has he ever hurt you down here?
Bone [shaking her head]: No
Ruth: Are you sure?
Bone: Yes.

...

Bone: Auntie, do you believe in god?
Ruth: I sure as hell do.
Bone: Good, because I'll be a gospel singer someday.
Ruth: All right, then. Carry on, little Bone. Turn up that radio.

...

Dee Dee: You don't know what it's like, Bone, getting out on your own, then being dragged back home. You wait a few years, get yourself a sweetheart, a job that pays your own money, stuff you like to do that your mama says is silly or sinful. Just about everything I like in this world is silly or sinful. But then, mama, I don't care. I got my car and I got my own plans, and as soon as that car is paid for you can bet your ass I'll be gone again. Next time the devil himself ain't gonna be able to drag me back.

...

Glen [belt in hand as Bone pulls up her dress]: Don't you say a word. Don't you dare.

...

Raylene: Earle, get in here! Bring Wade and Travis with you!
Earle: What's the matter, Raylene? Raylene, what the hell are you screaming about?
Raylene [showing them how badly beaten Bone is]: Look at this, look at her.

...

Anney [watching the men beat Glen]: He loves Bone. He loves her. He does. He loves us all, Mama!

...

Raylene: I did run off to the carnival alright, but not for no man. I never wanted to marry nobody. I like my life the way it is, little girl. Looks like you'll make yours out of pride, stubbornness, and too much anger. Better think hard, Ruth Anne, about what you want and who you're mad at. Better think real hard.

...

Grey: I've been thinking.
Bone: 'Bout what?
Grey: Remember when you were telling me and Garvey about the living dead? Remember?
[Bone nods]
Grey: Well...I been thinking maybe our daddies are the living dead. I been thinking maybe they just take turns.
Bone: Maybe.

...

Anney: I wouldn't ask you to come home unless I knew you'd be safe, Bone. I promise you.
[Bone shakes her head]
Anney: What? What are you saying?
Bone: I won't go. I'll stay at Raylene's. I think she's glad to keep me. I'll stay somewhere. But once you go back to Daddy Glen, I can't go with you.

...

Bone [narrating]: Mama didn't try to stop me when I walked away. She just watched me go. At Raylene's the days were a gift, long and warm. The nights, quiet and cool. I slept dreamlessly and woke up at peace.

...

Glen: I talked to Anney, you know, and she's comin' back. She promised. She said she just needs a little time, time to make it up to you. She loves you more than I can understand. You know what your mama told me? She's not coming home till you come home too. You're gonna have to tell her it's alright. You're gonna have to tell her that we'll be together, again.
Bone: No. I don't wanna live with you no more. I told mama she can go back. I told her she could. But I can't. I won't.
Glen: You won't? You won't live with me no more? You are still a child! You don't say what you do! I'm your daddy! I say you what to do!
Bone: No.
Glen: I want you to try to be reasonable, girl. I want you to tell your mama, I want you to stop all this nonsense, before you make me really mad.
Bone: I'd rather die than go back living with you!

...

Glen: Anney is going to come back to me. I know it. She just needs a little time, I understand that with everything that's happened. But if she wasn't coming back to me, I would kill you. You know that. I would break your neck.
[then he kisses her hard on the lips...then he rapes her]

...

Glen [to Anney after she rescues Bone]: Don't go, I can't live without you! Kill me! Please, baby! Kill me! Kill me! Kill me!

...

Raylene: Bone, I know you don't understand this. I barely understand, myself. No woman should have to choose between a baby and her lover. Between her child and her husband. We all do terrible things to the ones we love sometimes and it eats us up, but we do them, just the same. You want to know about your Mom, I know. I can't explain that to you. I can't. I don't know where she's gone. None of us do, but I know she loves you. Don't doubt that. And she'll never forgive herself.
Bone: I hate her.
Raylene: You'll forgive her.
Bone: I hate her.

...

Anney: Bone, I never wanted you to get hurt. I never thought it would go the way it did. I never thought Glen would hurt you like that. And I just loved him. You know that? I just loved him so much. I couldn't see him that way. I couldn't believe. I couldn't imagine. You don't know how much I love you, honey.

...

Bone [narrating] Who had mama been? What had she wanted to be or do before I was born? Once I was born her hopes turned, and I climbed up her life like a flower reaching for the sun. Her life had folded into mine. Who would I be when I was 15, 20, 30? Would I be as strong as she had been? As hungry for love? As desperate, determined and ashamed? I wasn't old but I was already who I was gonna be. Someone like her, like my mama, a Boatwright, a bastard, a bastard out of Carolina.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:32 am

Whether "the supernatural" exists or not there are places able to evoke the sort of dread of it that consumes you -- an overwhelming sense that whatever might be behind it all bespeaks a horror that seems ably to encapsulate whatever it is that encompasses "the human condition".

In particular, this can often be conveyed more intimately when embedded in a "little village" somewhere. And here it takes the form of "a mysterious sickness" spreading among the population. Often intertwined in one or another religious narrative. Or "folk religion" as some call it.

For example, the Black Plague way back then. Thought of as natural or supernatural, it seemed to embody a world in which something really, really awful was ever and always just around the corner, ready to pounce.

One or another demon. Or, perhaps, one or another stranger. Or infidel.

And, maybe this time, it will pounce on you.

Where things get tricky though is when a plot like this unfolds in the "modern world". Both the demons and the Gods have to contend with a frame of mind that has been "contaminated" over the centuries by an understanding of the world that is considerably more "twenty-first century". In other words, even the smallest of villages are now connected to narratives that would have been almost unthinkable 500 years ago. Here it is modern day South Korea.

On the other hand, if you don't believe in the existence of folk-religion "demons/ghosts", you can always go elsewhere to explain all the evil in the world. Of course many people will believe in them just because, even if they bring great suffering, they are somehow "proof" of the existence of a world beyond this one.

As for what it all "means" [especially the ending], here are a few takes on it:

https://movies.stackexchange.com/questi ... iling-2016
https://movies.stackexchange.com/questi ... a-hong-jin
https://youtu.be/aiJHaxIyfLQ

IMDb

For his ceremony scene, actor Jung-min Hwang filmed for 15 minutes without break. It was one long-take scene.

According to director Hong-jin Na, this movie was made on the base of folk religions in Korea and Nepal, and the Catholic faiths.

Hwan-hee Kim who played Hyo-jin (Jong-goo's daughter) practiced modern dance for 6 months to perform scenes of her being possessed by the devil.


at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wailing_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/43uAputjI4k


THE WAILING [Gok-seong] 2016
Written and directed by Hong-jin Na

Title card: "They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghoist does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
[Luke 24: 37-39]

...

Sergeant Jong-gu: What's wrong with him?
Cop: He doesn't smell of alcohol and he's not talking. I think he ate some wild mushrooms. They say he just suddenly got like that...

...

Cop [to Jong-gu looking at a bizarre crime scene]: What kind of twisted fuck is he?

...

Jong-gu: Listen you dumb ass, they did the autopsy, ran all kinds of tests, they were talking about how he probably ate some bad mushrooms...You know those mushrooms that make you go crazy...They found large quantities of it in his blood sample, it was at his house, dried up and untouched...
Detective: Sergeant, do you really believe that?
Jong-gu: The tests results are in!
Detective: Sergeant, have you ever tried those kinds of mushrooms as a kid? Mushrooms don't do that to people, you saw the condition he was in! You think mushrooms did that?!?

...

Jong-gu: Seong Bok...That woman...The one from the burned house we just came from, I knew I saw her somewhere before! That woman from last night, standing naked at the window! When the lights went out! That's her!

...

Villager [to Jung-gu]: It is my opinion all these people dying in the village, it has something to do with him. He is not a human....


Cue the Japanese "stranger".

Village: Look. Over there.
Detective: Isn't that a deer?
Jong-gu: So, you weren't making this up.
Detective: What in God's name is happening?

...

Jong-gu: Why are you acting like this..? Get yourself together!
Detective [barely above a whisper]: It's not just one or two people... He takes pictures of them before they turn into...And he takes pictures of them when they die...He goes back to photograph them...
Jong-gu: What the fuck are you babbling about?!? You're not making any sense!
Detective: He is the one responsible. He's the criminal.
Jong-gu: That is enough! We'll talk later! What exactly did you see..? What did you see!
[he shows him Hyo-jin's trainer]

...

Jong-gu: Did you lose a trainer..?
Hyo-jin: No...
Jong-gu [showing her the shoe]: So what is this..?
Hyo-jin: It's not mine...
Jong-gu: This isn't your handwriting?
Hyo-jin: I said it's not mine...
Jong-gu: You know there is a Japanese person that lives around here, right? Answer me! You know him, right? You met with him, right? Answer me now!...Your father is a cop. I'll know if you're lying. You met him, right?
[Hyo-jin nods]
Jong-gu: Tell me! Everything! Where did you meet him? What did you guys do?
Hyo-jin: Why should I tell you..?
Jong-gu: This is important!
Hyo-jin: Why is it important? What is so important..? Tell me, what is it so important..? What? What! IS THAT REALLY SO IMPORTANT!

...

Hyo-jin: What are you doing?
Jong-gu: I thought you were asleep.
Hyo-jin: What the hell? Yanking up your daughter's skirt in the middle of the night?
[Jong-gu just gapes at her]
Hyo-jin: Speak up, will you. Tell me, asshole!
[Jong-gu continues to gape at her, not recognizing her as his daughter]
Hyo-jin: Tell me, you fucking shithead!! FUCK YOU!!
[she starts to scream uncontrolably]

...

Wife [to Jong-gu]: I spoke to the shaman. He said we have a ghost in our house. It looks it has taken over Hyo-jin. We could all die if we don't do anything.

...

Jong-gu: What did you come here for:
The stranger [through Yang Yi-sam's translation]: To travel.
Jong-gu: Tell him I'll throw him in jail unless he tells me the truth.
The stranger [through Yang Yi-sam's translation]: Even if I told you, you wouldn't believe me.
Jong-gu [to Yang Yi-sam]: You tell him everything I say, word for word]
[he turns to the stranger]
Jong-gu: You fucking prick! You loose-assed, dog fucking son of a whore! What kind of tourist hangs pictures of dead people on his wall?!...I want you to stop what you are doing and leave this village quietly. If you don't leave, you'll die.

...

Il-gwang [to Jong-gu]: Who was it? Who did you disturb?
Jong-gu: A Japanese man.
Il-gwang: I knew it. That was no man. That was a ghost.

...

Il-Gwang [to Jong-gu]: Listen. What I'm doing tomprrrow, it's no ordinary ritual, I'll be casting a death-hex. It's incredibly dangerous. So you can't do anything that would taint it. No intercourse. Watch what you eat and drink. Otherwise the spell will back-fire.

...

Il-Gwang: Even among other demons, he's a master of evil.
Jong-Gu: If that's true, why did it have to be...
Il-Gwang: ...your daughter? What sin did that young girl ever commit?
Jong-Gu: Yes.
Il-Gwang: If you go fishing, do you know what you'll catch?
Jong-Gu: No.
Il-Gwang: He's just fishing. Not even he knows what he'll catch. He just threw out the bait, and your daughter took it.

...

Il-Gwang: The rat fell into the trap.

...

Moo-myeong [to Il-Gwang]: What are you doing here? Get out.

...

Il-Gwang [on the phone]: I misread the divination. It's not him.
Jong-gu: What do you mean?
Il-Gwang: I cast the hex on the wrong ghost. I saw a woman in front of your house. I made a grave mistake. A terrible, terrible mustake. It's not the Japanese man. That woman is the evil spirit.
Jong-gu: Who was the Japanese man?
Il-Gwang: He was trying to kill that woman in order to save people from her. That Japanese man...he's a shaman, like me.
Jong-gu: Was the woman wearing white? Was she a young woman?

...

Jong-gu: Where is my daughter? Where is my daughter?
Moo-myeong: About this tall? Hyo-Jin?
Jong-gu: Yes.
Moo-myeong: She's possessed by an evil spirit. The old woman tells me the Jap is a ghost. He's trying to suck her blood dry.
Jong-gu: Shut the fuck up! Answer me, bitch? Where is Hyo-jin?
Moo-myeong: Have you seen the Jap?
Jong-gu: Whare is my daughter?!
Moo-myeong: At your home, where else?
Jong-gu: She's not there.
Moo-myeong: She is. She just got back. Don't go back now or she'll die. If you go now, your whole family will perish.

...

Moo-myeong: You've seen the demon. At the house of the hanged woman.
[Jong-gu has a flashback]
Jong-gu: It was a dream.
Moo-myeong: It was not a dream.

...

Jong-gu: What are you, a woman or a ghost? I need to know.
Moo-myeong: Just believe and your family will be saved.
Jong-gu: WHAT ARE YOU?!!!
Moo-myeong [after a long pause]: Someone trying to save your daughter. A woman.

...

Jong-gu [after a shot of Hyo-jin arriving home]: When will the demon come?
Moo-myeong: It's already there.

...

Yang Yi-sam: I want to ask you something. What are you..?
The Japanese stranger: What do you think my true form is?
Yang Yi-sam: The Devil. You are the devil....Aren't you going to say anything?
Japanese stranger: You've already said it. I'm the Devil.

...

Jong-gu [on the phone]: I'm with the woman now.
Il-Gwang: You mustn't let her tempt you. Never. Whatever she tells you, you must go to your daughter now.

...

Moo-myeong: Is that your shaman on the phone?
[Jong-gu nods]
Moo-myeong: Don't believe what he tells you. They're in on it together.

...

Japanese stranger: Isn't that right? You're already certain I'm the devil. That's why you came here carrying that sickle. My words, whatever I say won't change your mind.

...

Jong-gu: Why in God's name is he doing this?
Moo-myeong: Because her father has sinned.
Jong-gu: What sin? What sin did I commit?
Moo-myeong: Her father suspected another. He tried to kill him, and finally succeeded.
Jong-gu: But my daughter...my daughter got sick first! How can that be?!!

...

Jong-gu [dying, flashing back to happier times with his daughter]: It' okay. My baby. You know Daddy's a policeman. I'll take care of everything. Daddy will.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:45 am

Most of us go about the business of living our lives from day to day and they revolve almost entirely around our own personal relationships with others. In other words, these relationships are hardly ever connected to anything that might be seen as "bigger than both of us".

Karen Silkwood for example. Only Karen worked in a nuclear facility. The Kerr-Magee plant in Oklahoma. And the plant was engaging in "dangerous practices". And she got wind of them. More to the point she decided to "get involved" and do something about it.

And they -- "they" -- killed her for it.

Or, rather, so many believe.

Capitalism at its rawest. After all, when the bottom line is the bottom line anyone who threatens it is fair game. It's only a matter of how far they will go. And whether they get caught. And not every narrative of this sort has a happy ending. Like, for example, Erin Brockovich's.

This was back when films of this sort [think China Syndrome] were coming out exposing one or another scandal and/or calamity in the nuclear energy field. And look where we are now. Still gassing up. And coming closer and closer to dealing with the consequences of "the greenhouse effect".

Of course the tricky thing about "doing the right thing" in situations like this is that those who are doing the wrong thing are the ones providing all the jobs. So, if you go after them, you risk making all those jobs disappear. And that can end up pissing off a lot more people than the folks wearing the white hats. Or, as Gilda puts it, "Karen, I LIKE MY JOB!"

IMDb

The scene where Karen sets off the radiation alarms actually happened. Her level of contamination was forty times the safe limit.

The one scene that was particularly difficult for Meryl Streep, was the one in which Karen flashes her breast to her co-workers while on the job. It was a scene that was "very awkward," she said, "because I'm always so sensitive about women doing nude scenes. It's a personal gripe. I did it because, in context, I thought she probably would do something like that. It made sense. But it's still a completely bizarre and horrible thing to do in front of a crew."

Movie posters for the film featured a preamble that read: "On November 13, 1974, Karen Silkwood, an employee of a nuclear facility, left to meet with a reporter from the New York Times. She never got there".

When Karen Silkwood's real-life boyfriend at the time, Drew Stephens, saw the film, he was very moved. "It was magic," he told People magazine. "It makes a human being out of Karen instead of a myth."


trvia at IMDb http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086312/tri ... =ttqu_sa_1
at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silkwood
trailer: https://youtu.be/iNyrSR5JGh8


SILKWOOD [1983]
Directed by Mike Nichols

White hat: Come on in, trainees. This brown powder you see here is mixed plutonium and uranium oxide. And these trained technicians are fabricating it into fuel pellets. Karen, could you explain the procedures in this glove box?
Karen: Yeah. what we're doing is we're blending and mixing the plutonium and uranium oxide into correct ratios. And then we sift it for impurities. And then it's fed into the slugging press which makes the pellets.

...

Trainee: What about radiation effects from all this material?
White hat: We've all seen a poor guy suffering the effects of sunburn. Radiation is like that. It's the kind of thing that can't hurt you...unless you're careless with it.

...

Man: There's nothing they can do. Where they going to park a contaminated truck? It'll stay that way twenty-five thousand years.
Drew: They can put it in space. Hell, put it in orbit. Put it on the moon.
Karen: What's going on?
Drew: They cooked a truck. There was a leak in one of the barrels.

...

New man [after hearing a siren wail]: What the hell was that?!
Morgan: It's a test.
New man: How do you know?
[the PA announces "This is a test. This is only a test." ]
Man: They always say that. You know some poor son of a bitch got his ass fried.
Karen: What I don't get is how we have all these tests but never go through the drill. If this was a real airborne contamination we're supposed to get out of here.
Man: We can't do the drill. It might stop production for ten minutes.
Karen: If it had been the real thing, they'd shut down the plant...and I could have had the whole weekend.

...

Karen: You were supposed to work my shift yesterday!
Gilda: Karen, they shut down.
Karen: Say what?
Gilda: There was a contamination in our section.
Karen: When?
Gilda: Right after you left. Karen, I'm not saying this to upset you...but you ought to know they're saying that you did it.
Karen: I did it?
Gilda: They knew you wanted the weekend off.

...

Quincy [head of the union to Karen]: The company has got to blame somebody for the contamination...otherwise, it's their fault.

...

Dolly: Thelma's cooked.
Karen: Huh?
Dolly: I said Thelma is cooked.

...

Drew: Thelma only got 24 DPMs.
Karen: Is that bad?
Drew: It's not super bad. Are you just waking up to this? You think we're working with puffed wheat over there?
Karen: I'm just asking a question.
Drew: If you're really worried about cancer, stop smoking.

...

Karen: Thelma, did they give you a nasal smear?
[Thelma shakes her head]
Karen: You make them give you a nasal smear. They're supposed to. Make Hurley give you one. And make him tell you the count! And make sure he's telling you the truth because there's a lot of liars around here.

...

Drew: I wish I could take care of you better.
Karen: I remember in high school my mama saying to me..."Now, what'd you want to go and sign up for that science class for? There's no girls in that science class. Why don't you take Home Ec? That's the way to meet the nice boys." I said, "Mama, there ain't no boys in Home Ec. Boys are in the science class." She hated when I said, 'Ain't.'

...

Karen: This says all that stuff about acceptable levels it's all bullshit.
Dolly: What is?
Karen: Well, it says here.. "Plutonium gives you cancer." Says it flat out.
Dolly: Where'd you get that?
Karen: It came in all that union stuff from Washington. You got one. Everybody got one. Dolly: Hurley works there. Think he'd work there if he was going to get cancer?
Karen: Listen to this..."genetic damage."
Dolly: Meaning what?
Karen: Meaning it goes on down into your kids. It says here...."Gross physical and mental defects."
Dolly: I already got them.

...

Karen: What are you doing to the negative?
Winston: Sometimes when you take a picture you get these white spots in there so we make them go away.
Karen: Doesn't somebody have to look at them to make sure they're OK?
Winston: Me.
Karen: Yeah, but I mean...
Winston: You mean what?
Karen: How do you...How do you know if they're just spots? They could be defects in the weld.
Winston: No, no, no. I've already checked the weld. I'm just putting beauty marks on them.

...

Quincy: What this means is, if we lose this certification election there ain't going to be any union at this plant. Nobody standing up for us against Kerr McGee which I read in the newspapers is gonna take in $1.5 billion this year. And which, as you all know takes about as much time thinking about our problems as grease takes to go through a goose.


He needs volunteers.

Karen: You could be on the committee.
Drew: What committee?
Karen: Negotiating committee.
Drew: You?
Karen: Yeah. On the union negotiating committee.
Drew: Karen, let me give you a hint. Don't flash 'em.
Karen: It turns you on.
Drew: Yeah, but I'm not management.
Karen: I'm as smart as Hurley is.
Drew: Just as tactful. You don't just stand toe to toe with someone call him a motherfucker, and get anywhere.
Karen: I'll keep it in mind.

...

Karen: Drew, do you... Do you feel different about me since I got cooked?
Drew: What do you mean?
Karen: You know.
Drew: Well...I still want to fuck you. But I sure as hell don't want to fuck Thelma anymore.

...

Angela: Karen, you ever been downtown? There are two big streets. One's called Kerr, and one's called McGee. And that's how I see it. They own the state, they own everybody in this state and they own practically everybody I work on.

...

Angela: Drew, I can always tell when a dead person I beautify worked for Kerr McGee because they all look like they died before they died.

...

Karen: There's one more thing. I work in metallography. In X-rays. And sometimes we... Quite frankly, we have negatives altered. The negatives of the welds in the fuel rods. They take a weld and cross section it. Then they photograph it, and there's a defect. Then they just touch it up.
Max: Touch it up?
Karen: With a Pentel pen. Right on the negatives. They fill in the white spots.
Max: You're talking about X-rays of fuel rods?
Karen: The fuel rods they're sending up to that...We're sending up to that breeder reactor... they're testing in Hanford.
Max: Do you know what that means?
Karen: I know they shouldn't do it.
Max: In an ordinary nuclear plant you can have meltdowns, poisonous gas, and dead people. That's nothing compared to what can go wrong with a breeder. You put defective fuel rods in a breeder reactor for all we know, the whole state could be wiped out. Can you get documentation of that.
Karen: I guess so.
Max: If you could get documentation, that would be very important. We'll set you up with a reporter from the "New York Times"...get the company up against the wall on negotiations. But you'd have to have documentation.
Karen: I don't know about putting names in the newspaper.
Max: Names aren't the point. The point is that if you're right they could kill off two million people. There's a moral imperative involved here.


The clock starts ticking.

Drew: People are going to lose jobs, Karen.
Karen: Well, some of them ought to. There's a moral imperative here.

...

Drew: I quit.
Karen: You what?
Drew: This afternoon. Gave my notice.
Karen: Why didn't you tell me?
Drew: I don't know. I just didn't tell you.
Karen: Why'd you quit?
Drew: I just don't give a shit.
Karen: You don't give a shit if everybody in the plant is being poisoned?
Drew [to himself after Karen as gone back into the house]: Don't give me a problem I can't solve.

...

Doctor [at union meeting]: In the coal mines years ago they used to put canaries in the tunnels. If the canaries dropped dead they knew there was a gas leak. But it's a brand-new industry...so you're the canaries. The trouble is, you're not going to drop dead right away. It might take ten years. Twenty. We don't know. Here's what we know...Plutonium causes cancer. Anybody tells you we don't know how much plutonium causes cancer, they're lying. What we don't know is how little plutonium causes cancer. The government says that the maximum permissible body burden for your lifetime is 40 nanocuries. Let me tell you how much that is. That is a tiny dot on a piece of paper. We say that's too much. We say that it takes less than that to kill you. We don't say it's twice too much or three times too much. We think that that is 115,000 times too much. A pollen-sized grain of plutonium injected in mice causes cancer. When you inhale it, and it lodges in your lungs you're married to cancer.

...

Winston: How come why didn't we hear any of this before? And we didn't see any of you guys until they decided to vote the union out or not? If you're so worried about us where the hell were you in the beginning?
Paul: What we're saying is you need someone looking out for your health and safety. The company says they're taking care of you. Do you believe that?
Winston: Yeah. I believe that.
Paul: You do?
Winston: Then you're the only guy in that room that still does.
Winston: Well, let me tell you something else then. It doesn't matter whether you work in plutonium or dog food because they ain't gonna give you a thing, there's nowhere left to go! You close this plant down and then what? You're gonna be up in Washington, but we're gonna be down here outta work! Your cancer's a maybe, that's all it is, a maybe...

...

Karen: What if somebody rapes me because you lost your key?
Dolly: Who's going to rape you that you ain't already fucked?

...

Karen: Mr. Hurley, did you tell an employee in wet processing that it was against union rules to give blood?
Hurley: I don't recall saying that, no.
Karen: Good. Because I just called the bloodmobile and they can come over on Tuesday.

...

Karen: You think Angela left on account of me? Let me tell you something, girl. Drew left on account of you and Angela.
Dolly: If you believe that, you're crazier than people say. You took about as good care of Drew as you took of your kids.

...

Karen [snooping through the files]: Morgan! You scared me.
Morgan: Meant to.
Karen: I'm doing something good.
Morgan: I know what you're doing...and you're the wrong person to be doing it. It's dangerous. That's all I'm saying.

...

Hurley: Come on, Karen. Concentrate.
Karen: How did that plutonium get in my house?
Hirley: Did you put it there?
Karen: Did I what? Are you crazy? You think I put...You think I'd contaminate myself?
Hurley: I think you'd do anything to hurt this company.

...

Karen: Somebody spiked my urine sample container.
Hurley: Who?
Karen: How do I know who? Anybody could have done it. You leave it sitting there by the punch-in at the plant! Anybody could've dropped a little plutonium in there. There's a lot of people at the plant hate me.
Hurely: The whole house is hot. How did it get hot?
Karen: I spilled it! I told you, man!
Doctor: That doesn't explain the readings we're getting on your nasal smear. 45,000 DPM. Karen: What?!
Doctor: 45,000 DPM.
Karen: Oh, my Jesus. I'm internally contaminated. That's what you mean.
Hurley: We don't know what it means.

...

Hurley: We can help you with a place to stay. We can help you with money.
Karen: But first I have to sign something, right? You want me to sign a statement saying I did all this.
Hurley: Just in your own words what happened.
Karen: OK. In my own words? I'm contaminated. I'm dying.

...

Drew: What the hell happened?
Karen: They're killing me. They're trying to kill me. They want me to stop what I'm doing. They contaminated me, you know that? I'm internally contaminated now.
Drew: Now, listen to me. We're going to go to Los Alamos on Thursday and we'll get a full body count from some doctors who know what they're doing.

...

Doctor: All right, Mr. Stephens and Miss Pelliker you both check out well below permissible body limits. You were exposed to Miss Silkwood and the house but you show minimum detectable activity now. Miss Silkwood. We have detected americium in both lungs and both sides of your chest. Americium is produced when plutonium disintegrates. And extrapolating from your americium level we estimate you have an internal contamination of six nanocuries of plutonium. The maximum permissible body burden for occupational exposure is 40 nanocuries. As you can see, you are well under that level. Karen: I'm under it.

...

Drew: You don't owe the union anything.
Karen: Let's not fight.
Drew: You don't owe the New York Times anything.
Karen: Let's not have a fight now. OK?
Drew: OK. We can always have a fight later.

...

Title card: The precise circumstances of Karen's death are unknown. It is also not known whether she had any documented with her. None were found. An autopsy revealed a high level of the tranquilizer Methaqualone and some alcohol in her bloodstream. Oklahoma police ruled her death a single car accident. A year later the plant shut down.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: philosophy in film

Postby iambiguous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:06 am

You're a kid. And after you have noted that 3 + 3 = 6, the first grade teacher asks you what 135 times 57 is. Almost immediately you answer: "7,695...the square root is 87.7 and change."

You're gifted. Or, rather, you are a bona fide math "prodigy". In other words, really, really gifted.

The plot is rather familiar. Frank, while recognizing his niece is gifted, is determined to keep her in public school. Why? So that she can become a "normal" child. But Mary's grandmother is equally determined to yank her out of the ordinary school environment and put her into an extraordinary school environment instead.

So, mother is pitted against son for custody of this very special little girl.

Meanwhile, "it emerges that Mary's mother, Diane, had been a promising mathematician, dedicated to the Navier–Stokes problem (one of the unsolved Millennium Prize Problems) before taking her own life when Mary was six months old."

My own daughter was gifted. She attended both Friends School and the Baltimore School For the Arts. But she was not a "prodigy".

So, what's the difference?

I'll tell you one thing though, it is all but impossible for someone who is not a prodigy to understand what it must be like to possess the mind of someone who is. Why is their brain that way while your own brain is not? The part about genes and memes. Or genes vs. memes.

Then there is this part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems
The part that will almost certainly be way, way, way, over your head.

IMDb

The Navier-Stokes problem mentioned in the movie is indeed one of the seven Millennium Prize problems in mathematics. Clay Mathematics Institute offered a US $1,000,000 prize to the first person providing a solution for a specific statement of the problem.

at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifted_(film)
trailer: https://youtu.be/tI01wBXGHUs


Gifted [2017]
Directed by Marc Webb

Frank: Fred's gonna be fine, no more argument, okay? We've discussed this ad nauseam.
Mary: What's an nauseam?
Frank: You don't know? Looks like someone needs school.

...

Frank [as Mary is about to board the school bus]: This is gonna be fun. You're gonna meet kids today you can borrow money from the rest of your life.

...

Frank [to Roberta]: She has not friend her age. No social skills. She doesn't know how to be a kid. Two nights ago she told me that even if Germany bails up the euro, there could still be worldwide depression.

...

Principal: Good morning, first graders.
Class: Good morning, Mrs. Davis.
Principal: Are you ready for a great year?
Class: Yes!
[Mary raises her hand]
Bonnie: Yes, Mary?
Mary: She's the boss?
Bonnie: Mrs. Davis is our principal, okay.
Mary: Ok, now I want you to get on your phone and call Frank and tell him to get me out of here!

...

Bonnie: I think your daughter...I think Mary might be gifted...Today in math, she answered some really...
Frank: No, that's...It's not gifted....It's Trachtenberg. Jakow Trachtenberg.
Bonnie: I'm sorry?
Frank: Spent seven years in a concentration camp. Developed the system to rapidly solve problems. It's the Trachtenberg method.
Bonnie: But she is... I mean... She's seven though.
Frank: I learned it when I was eight. Do I look gifted to you? It kinda went out of vogue since the invention of the calculator. But... I can still win a drink at the bar using it.

...

Frank: I realize, putting a girl like Mary in Oaks Academy for Gifted Education ... You know, 99 times out of a 100, that's is what you do. It's the Oaks. It's great school. I looked into it. This family has a history with those schools. And I think the last thing that little girl needs is reinforcement that she's different. Trust me, she knows, so I think Mary...I think she's gotta be here. Today's bad ending, you can't hit people. But a 12 year old bullies a 7 year old and she stands up? Do you know how important that is to me that she did that? You know how proud I am of her? Aren't you?
Principal: Mr. Edgar, your daughter shattered a young boy's...
Frank: I know. You can't hit people. That will be made very clear to her. I get that. But Miss Davis, if we separate our leaders... if we segregate them from people like you and me...you get congressmen.

...

Principal: Keeping Mary here is a mistake. We'll never be able to raise this child to the level of scholarship she deserves.
Frank: Well...dumb her down to a decent human being. Everybody wins.

...

Mary [as they pull up to the house]: There's a lady standing in front of our door.
Frank: Who is it?
Mary: How should I know? I'm seven.
Frank [looking at the woman]: That would be your grandmother.
Mary: Holy shit!

...

Evelyn [grandmother]: Frank, please listen to reason. At some point, are you gonna get to conclusion... or someone in authority are going to spell it out for you that the child best interest is all that matters....She's not normal. And threating her such is negligence on a grand scale. I know your heart's in the right place on this. But you are denying the girl her potential. I can provide for her. I can enrich her life.
Frank: Come on, Evelyn. You're gonna take that girl, you are gonna bury her in tutors...then you'll loan her out to some think tank where she could talk non-trivial zeros with a bunch of old Russian guys for the rest of her life.
Evelyn: And you'd bury her under a rock. Look, I didn't expect you to understand the price you have to pay for greatness.
Frank: I do. That's why I have Mary in the first place.

...

Mary: Is there a God?
Frank: I don't know.
Mary: Just tell me.
Frank: I would if I could. But I don't know. Neither does anybody else.
Mary: Roberta knows.
Frank: No. Roberta has faith... And that's the great thing to have. But faith's about what you think, feel. Not what you know.
Mary: What about Jesus?
Frank: Love that guy. Do what he says.
Mary: But, is he God?
Frank: I don't know. I have an opinion. But that's my opinion and I could be wrong. So why would I screw up yours? Use your head. But don't be afraid to believe in things either.
Mary: Huh. There was a guy on TV who said there was no God.
Frank: The only difference between the atheists on TV and Roberta is, Roberta loves you. She trying to help. Tell you what though. One way or another we all end up back together in the end. That's what you're asking, right?
Mary: Yep.
Frank: Okay. Find something else to worry about, will ya?
Mary: All right.


In other words, not even being a prodigy is of much use here.

Roberta [to Frank]: I told you something like this would happen. Now look where we are. And I'm supposed to believe you know what you're doing. You couldn't even find a white lawyer....There's nothing you can say that's make me fell good because I have no say in any of this, Frank. I'm not a blood relative, I'm not a legal guardian. I'm nothing. Just the lady who lives next door, whose opinion means nothing, whose feelings means nothing. Would I like to have Mary tonight? I'd like to have Mary every night.

...

[b]Mary: So what's this problem I'm supposed to look at?
Evelyn: I don't know.
Mary: So, it's like a problem mom worked on?
Evelyn: Your mother didn't work on problems. She worked on just one problem.
Mary: Just one? Her entire life?
Evelyn: Most of it.

...

Evelyn [before plaques on a wall]: Look. These are Millennium Prize problems. Seven great and meaningful problems. Some mathematicians have worked their entire lives to prove them.
Mary: Who's the dude with the beard?
Evelyn: That's not a dude. That's Grigori Perelman. He proved Poincare conjecture. The only one of the seven proved. This...This is your mother's problem. Navier- Stokes.
Mary: No picture. She didn't solve it?
Evelyn: No. She was close. She would have won Fields Medal and probably shared the Nobel, considering what would meant for physics.
Mary: Maybe I'll have my picture up here someday.
[Evelyn grips her]
Evelyn: If you really desire it you can have your picture there, darling. I can help you. It takes focus and hard work, but if you succeed...your name will live forever.

...

Evelyn: I should never have agreed to this. Did he really expect you to just walk in and be able to dissect some random massive problem?
Mary: Not much to dissect, if you ask me.
Evelyn [startled]: Why? Why do you say that?
Mary: It was wrong.
Evelyn: What?
Mary: Well...for starters, he forgot the negative sign on the exponent. It went downhill from there. The problem was unsolvable. Maybe this school isn't as great as you think it is.

...

Shankland: Mary, you knew that the problem was incorrect, why didn't you say anything?
Mary: Frank says I'm not supposed to correct older people. Nobody likes a smart-ass.

...

Mary [to Pat the shrink]: Frank is a good person. He wanted me before I was smart.

...

Evelyn [to Frank's lawyer in court]: Diane was not like regular people. She was extraordinary. And extraordinary people come with singular issues and needs. You have no idea of capability she possessed. One in a billion. And you would say: "Fine, let's throw that away, so the boy who cuts our yard can make a sexual conquest." Well maybe before you make that decision, you stand in my shoes. I had responsibilities, which are beyond the mother-daughter relationship. The greatest discoveries, which have proved life on this planet have come from minds rarer than radium. Without them, we'd still be crawling in mud.


So, does she have a point or not?

Greg [Frank's lawyer]: I'll do whatever you want me to do. But, if we leave this up to that judge, Nickols...he's a old school, Frank. Does he like your mother? No. Does he like her income? Does he like her health plan? Does he like her home? You better believe it. I've been in his courtroom. A hundred times. And if it's a coin toss...Look at me. If it's a coin toss that old boy is going to side with the money.

...

Evelyn: I've been thinking a lot about the word called "compromise". On one hand, good challenging school...on the other...foster people. They can watch sitcoms with her. Take her to Olive Garden. Teach her to say "irregardless." The only saving grace is, I suppose, that she is better off than she was. Goodbye, Frank.

...

Frank: Diane instructed me very clearly... that I was only to publish it postmortem.
Evelyn: She died six years ago.
Frank: It wasn't her death she was talking about.

...

Mary: What is this book?
Frank [who was once a professor of philosophy]: "Discourse on Method." Rene Descartes.
Mary: What's it about?
Frank: Existence.
Mary: Existence?
Frank: Yup. "I think, therefore I am".
Mary: Well, of course you are. That's obvious...
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 21820
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Previous

Return to Art, Music, and Entertainment



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users