Where does art come from?

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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Alf » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:12 am

Now, you can restart the discussion "metaphysics versus physics", also known as "spirit versus nature".
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:55 pm

Art does also come from culture - I think also adopted and adapted from others' cultures - but if that means it comes from soul, is it THE SOUL predominantly - meaning that intangible metaphysical thing which cannot be seen or felt but is eternal) or does SOUL here mean something else?

Doesn't the culture of a people include their history, individual and universal, their thinking, beliefs, their rituals, their struggles, their achievements, their failures, the very genes and blood which have flowed within them from their ancestors?

Isn't this a different kind of Soul? I do not see this as the Soul which came from a God but the Soul which has been created from a people and an on-going one, until that group of people has died out. Even then, perhaps it will be carried over to others.

Different Souls, right? Distinctions are important.
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If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Alf » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:02 am

Soul => Culture => Art and all other cultural forms of expression.

So:
Art comes from both culture and soul.
Culture and art as well as all other cultural forms of expression come from a soul.

There are different cultures.
So it is very likely that there are different souls too, or the soul is basically always the same (though, I don't believe this), but the way how souls experience their environment is different, and this different experiences lead to different ways of life, thus to different cultures and thus to different cultural forms of expression.
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby surreptitious75 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:42 am

As an atheist I do not accept there is such a thing as a metaphysical soul but think that human beings have a psyche
which is the psychological and philosophical foundation of who they essentially are. And that is what I mean by soul
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Alf » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:27 pm

The metaphysical soul we are talking about here has nothing to do with theism.

This thread should not be about the question where the soul comes from; and if it came from nature, it would have a non-metaphysical origin, if it came from god/s, it would have a metaphysical origin, if it came from nature as god/s, it would have both a non-metaphysical and a metaphysical origin (see: pantheism).

But this thread is about the question where art comes from.

So let's have a talk without mentioning the origin of the soul.

Or is that question that important to you?
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:43 pm

Alf wrote:The metaphysical soul we are talking about here has nothing to do with theism.

This thread should not be about the question where the soul comes from; and if it came from nature, it would have a non-metaphysical origin, if it came from god/s, it would have a metaphysical origin, if it came from nature as god/s, it would have both a non-metaphysical and a metaphysical origin (see: pantheism).

But this thread is about the question where art comes from.

So let's have a talk without mentioning the origin of the soul.

Or is that question that important to you?


lol That's fine with me.
Personally when I speak of soul I mean the human psyche.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby surreptitious75 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:54 pm

I only mentioned the soul in passing because clarification was required
So have no desire to derail the thread by talking about something else
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:23 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:I only mentioned the soul in passing because clarification was required
So have no desire to derail the thread by talking about something else


Well, at least the two of us are on the same page, surreptitious75.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Alf » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:12 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:I only mentioned the soul in passing because clarification was required
So have no desire to derail the thread by talking about something else

No problem.

But you are right, it would mean derailing this thread, if we started talking about the origin of the soul. Also, such a topic would be too extensive for this thread.

Maybe one of us will soon open a thread with the topic: "Where does the soul come from?". :)
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Kathrina » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 am

Kathrina wrote:The soul isn't physical; the soul is metaphysical. Exclusively.
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Re: Where does art come from?

Postby Arminius » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:42 pm

Kathrina wrote:
Kathrina wrote:The soul isn't physical; the soul is metaphysical. Exclusively.

The soul is similar to Kant’s „Ding an sich“ ("thing at itself" / "thing as such"), Schopenhauer’s „Wille“ ("will") ....
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