What's the point of marriage anymore?

[uglypeoplefucking]

If it weren't being subsidized and promoted by the state, would there really be any reason for people, especially the non-religious, to get married?

And, if not, then why is the state subsidizing and promoting the institution?

[Typist]

Marriage is the best option for ugly people to get fucked regularly? I don't where I got this idea, it just popped in to my head somehow.

[uglypeoplefucking]

Maybe it's because you have a dirty, dirty mind. You should try to rid yourself of these impure thoughts.

[Trevor]

I'm not of a religion, but I do respect marriage. I respect two people making that commitment to one another, and although marriage is unnecessary to do this, it's still what I imagine it symbolises to the rest of the world.

[tentative]

Marriage is the best option for ugly people to get fucked regularly? I don't where I got this idea, it just popped in to my head somehow.

What? Did you walk past a mirror or something?

[Frankenstein]

Marriage is an old tradition, why get rid of it? My conservative Burkian views may shine through here, because I don't believe we should get rid of old traditions that work. Instead, we ought to modify them. Their use is that it is the externalization representing the condition of two souls working to form an ever closer bond. Symbols help people understand the concepts that lie underneath the fluxom and jetsom of what we perceive everyday. I think when people make an "official" commitment to each other, they may see the reality in their decision more easily if they spend 50k on a wedding.

[Duality]

Marriage is an old tradition, why get rid of it? My conservative Burkian views may shine through here, because I don't believe we should get rid of old traditions that work. Instead, we ought to modify them. Their use is that it is the externalization representing the condition of two souls working to form an ever closer bond. Symbols help people understand the concepts that lie underneath the fluxom and jetsom of what we perceive everyday. I think when people make an "official" commitment to each other, they may see the reality in their decision more easily if they spend 50k on a wedding.

So if someone doesn't want to spend 50k on a wedding, but wishes to be subsidized and promoted by the state - ,tough cookies for them?

[uglypeoplefucking]

Marriage is an old tradition, why get rid of it? My conservative Burkian views may shine through here, because I don't believe we should get rid of old traditions that work. Instead, we ought to modify them. Their use is that it is the externalization representing the condition of two souls working to form an ever closer bond. Symbols help people understand the concepts that lie underneath the fluxom and jetsom of what we perceive everyday. I think when people make an "official" commitment to each other, they may see the reality in their decision more easily if they spend 50k on a wedding.

i think you're probably right about marriage's symbolic value, but when you say it works, how exactly do you mean? Yes it's a functioning symbol, but as such, i would say it's a symbol devalued by overuse and the all-too-frequent dissolution of the thing it symbolizes. Unfortunately, a symbol of commitment doesn't always translate into actual commitment. i certainly don't mean to imply that the institution should be abolished, just that perhaps that it doesn't make sense for society to promote it the way it does.

[Frankenstein]

on re-reading my message, i think I sounded a bit pernicious about spending $50k on a wedding. It is a huge family event, and celebrating love with family and other loved ones doesn't seem like a bad way to spend money. This is irrelevant to anything but my own re-reading though.

Marriage is an old tradition, why get rid of it? My conservative Burkian views may shine through here, because I don't believe we should get rid of old traditions that work. Instead, we ought to modify them. Their use is that it is the externalization representing the condition of two souls working to form an ever closer bond. Symbols help people understand the concepts that lie underneath the fluxom and jetsom of what we perceive everyday. I think when people make an "official" commitment to each other, they may see the reality in their decision more easily if they spend 50k on a wedding.

i think you're probably right about marriage's symbolic value, but when you say it works, how exactly do you mean? Yes it's a functioning symbol, but as such, i would say it's a symbol devalued by overuse and the all-too-frequent dissolution of the thing it symbolizes. Unfortunately, a symbol of commitment doesn't always translate into actual commitment. i certainly don't mean to imply that the institution should be abolished, just that perhaps that it doesn't make sense for society to promote it the way it does.

My father, a divorcee, once asserted that the rate of divorce now is 50% of all marriages, and with two people in each relationship why even bother!

Is it only devalued when the symbol is overused, due to the symbol not being represented within the participants? How ought marriage be promoted?

There are many causes of depreciation and decay within institutions. Is it the participants, or the culture that surrounds the participants? The problem usually is related to both, but one more than the other.

[Arcturus Descending]

If it weren't being subsidized and promoted by the state, would there really be any reason for people, especially the non-religious, to get married?

And, if not, then why is the state subsidizing and promoting the institution?

People who are reasonably happily married and content DO live longer than those who are not, barring a particular condtion or illness.
No matter what the age, waking up next to a person every morning and going to sleep with them every night enhances one's life and spirit, providing there are specific ingredients within that recipe.
The trick is to find someone who you can really like a lot, respect, have the ability to communicate with, be intimate with (speaking non-sexually here), let loose and have fun with, be in companionship or solitude with. That is the secret basically of a happy marriage I think. Physical attraction, lust, the sex act is capable of dwindling down a bit after a while (even within a few years) - but if there is STILL real love, respect and liking, a marriage can be the most wonderful institution. Even if the sex act does not dwindle, without those other prerequisites, the marriage is probably doomed.

Of course, one may have that kind of a relationship with another and not be married but live together. But marriage is, in a sense, a different kind of commitment and gives one a sense of belonging and security which one might not have otherwise -but i may be wrong here. But a strong sense of commitment is also one of those ingredients which hold the relationship happily together.

So, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Kriswest]

While I agree Arc, I would add that we tend to forget what the word marriage actually means. Two becoming
one or more than two becoming one. Its a commitment to create one.
We humans need to have ceremonies to signify our commitment to something.

[uglypeoplefucking]

Of course, one may have that kind of a relationship with another and not be married but live together. But marriage is, in a sense, a different kind of commitment and gives one a sense of belonging and security which one might not have otherwise -but i may be wrong here. But a strong sense of commitment is also one of those ingredients which hold the relationship happily together.

i think this is probably true - IF being married strengthens one's sense of commitment to another then perhaps it makes sense to get married. but that's still a big IF . . . or, at least, a big SOMETIMES. clearly the institution fails to bolster the commitment at least about half the time, as seen in the dissolution of so very many marriages.

So, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

right we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but still, maybe the baby needs a bath.

[uglypeoplefucking]

While I agree Arc, I would add that we tend to forget what the word marriage actually means. Two becoming
one or more than two becoming one. Its a commitment to create one.
We humans need to have ceremonies to signify our commitment to something.

i'm not sure its a commitment to "create one' for a lot of married people. i think a lot of people use it for other reasons, be they emotional, financial, whatever. for you and for people like you it may be about the creation of a oneness between specific individuals, which is fine, but for some other couples it's more about getting a tax break and going on a honeymoon. or making it illegal for their partner to have sex with someone else. or whathaveyou. divorce is treated as an eventuality that comes with getting married. at least in the first world, i think it no longer makes sense for people in their say mid-twenties to make binding lifelong commitments to one another. and so it seems almost foolish that such commitments are so heavily encouraged and even expected.

[uglypeoplefucking]

Is it only devalued when the symbol is overused, due to the symbol not being represented within the participants? How ought marriage be promoted?

On the whole, i think people marry too young and too quickly. But that's just the start of it. i think in all too many cases, marriage is unnecessary and/or emotionally and financially dangerous. i think it can stifle people's personal growth and make them unhappy in ways they often don't realize until it's too late. If it is promoted at all, it ought be promoted with far more caveats than it currently is.

There are many causes of depreciation and decay within institutions. Is it the participants, or the culture that surrounds the participants? The problem usually is related to both, but one more than the other.

The participants are parts and representatives of the culture, so i think that's kind of a chicken or egg thing.

[Kriswest]

I agree people have the ceremony for those reasons but, is that a marriage or just a legal arrangement? Perhaps new legal arrangements should be made. A marriage means bringing two objects together to make one object permanently. A new word or words for all of other reasons?

[Arcturus Descending]

Of course, one may have that kind of a relationship with another and not be married but live together. But marriage is, in a sense, a different kind of commitment and gives one a sense of belonging and security which one might not have otherwise -but i may be wrong here. But a strong sense of commitment is also one of those ingredients which hold the relationship happily together.

i think this is probably true - IF being married strengthens one's sense of commitment to another then perhaps it makes sense to get married. but that's still a big IF . . . or, at least, a big SOMETIMES. clearly the institution fails to bolster the commitment at least about half the time, as seen in the dissolution of so very many marriages.

So, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

right we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but still, maybe the baby needs a bath.

I wasn't necessarily saying that being married IN ITSELF is what holds the relationship together - rather it is the sense of commitment that is important to the couple. But I think that also depends on the individuals themselves and their love and maturity. It is also THAT which strenghtens the committment.

I don't think it is the institution of marriage that is responsible for failed marriages. I think it's because the individuals lack or lacked full awareness of just what they were getting into. To many, marriage is like a fairy tale and when the prince and princess begin to have problems, are not able to look so lovingly and lustfully at one another, they expect the fairy godmother to come and work her magic, instead of putting in all of the hard work and discipline necessary for it. If they really knowand value what they have and what they want together, then, they will do whatever is necessary to protect that treasure. It's a shame that fairy tales didn't have sequels. Well, I don't know, maybe some did.

But giving the baby a bath IS what working on the marriage is all about, especially in those crucial moments. Taking off those rose-colored glasses which are beginning to fade anyway and scrubbing off the dirt and the grime in order to see what really lies beneath. I think that many marriages were not meant to be from the beginning but perhaps many were/are and become lost because the prince and princess do not value their kingdom any more...they've lost sight of what they truly have and it becomes too difficult for them to nourish and to nurture it and they begin to look outside for their happiness albeit they must also look outside for it...but together in their separateness.

[ScavengingVulture]

Symbolism, monogamous commitment, and legal along with social entrapment of males by the females.

[Arcturus Descending]

Symbolism, monogamous commitment, and legal along with social entrapment of males by the females.

For someone who calls him/her -self a scavenging vulture, you don't pick up much do you?
Nowhere → → → → can ALSO be the beginning of the road...full of possibilities.

[Arcturus Descending]

While I agree Arc, I would add that we tend to forget what the word marriage actually means. Two becoming one or more than two becoming one. Its a commitment to create one.
We humans need to have ceremonies to signify our commitment to something.

Hey Kris
Two becoming one? In a sense perhaps. At the same time, that might actually be part of the problem. Two must at the same time remain separate individuals. If they think of each other as an extension of self, what happens is the same thing which happens when parents think of their children as extentions of their selves. ..projections, no boundaries, loss of respect of the other.
Remember Gibran's words...

What wonderful ceremony might a husband and wife have to signify commitment. Something different..not renewing marriage vows? Maybe something with the moon ...

[ScavengingVulture]

Symbolism, monogamous commitment, and legal along with social entrapment of males by the females.

For someone who calls him/her -self a scavenging vulture, you don't pick up much do you?
Nowhere → → → → can ALSO be the beginning of the road...full of possibilities.

Can you explain to me what post even means?

I read that post three times where I can't make heads or tails of it.

[Arcturus Descending]

Symbolism, monogamous commitment, and legal along with social entrapment of males by the females.

For someone who calls him/her -self a scavenging vulture, you don't pick up much do you?
Nowhere → → → → can ALSO be the beginning of the road...full of possibilities.

Can you explain to me what post even means?

I read that post three times where I can't make heads or tails of it.

That's because it isn't just the horse's head nor tail which is tied to the post. It is the entire horse. When you look at the horse, you must see every inch of it. Just like when you think of marriage, you must see much more than symbolism, monogamous commitment and legal, oh, yes, and let's not forget how the woman traps the poor unconscious guy.

I thought they didn't leave any meat on the bone.

[Kriswest]

Lol, Arc my friend when two become one unit it still takes two to make one. You don't stop being when part of something. A seed is part of an apple. The skin and meat are parts of an apple. Imagine plucking an apple eating it and finding no seeds. Would that not make you question?

[Duality]

I agree people have the ceremony for those reasons but, is that a marriage or just a legal arrangement? Perhaps new legal arrangements should be made. A marriage means bringing two objects together to make one object permanently. A new word or words for all of other reasons?

That was my point KrisWest - can I get a legal arrangement that provides the same state benefits that a legal marriage provides. Or
am I just gonna be automatically devalued as an inferior citizen solely because of my marriage status? You of course had to know I

was only thinking about myself the whole time, didn't you?

[volchok]

To the ignoramus that said that marriage is an old tradition:

Slavery was also an old tradition and we decided to to stop it.

Tradition alone is not a good reason to do anything.

Furthermore, marriage meant different things throughout history.

Should we go back to the traditional values of whites not being able to marry blacks for instance?

Marriage was simple a tool created by humans to deal with sexual jealously.

[Noblerust]

Are we talking about marriage, as in two people taking each other as companions and living life together?

Or we talking about marriage as a legally binding contractual arrangement between two or more people?

The latter, society could probably do without rigid legal definitions of marriage that's sponsored by the government. If marriage is a old tradition it's own merits should see it a continued practice, without needing any kind of perceived legitimacy by getting the government and it's laws involved.