GOD=NATURE

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:48 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Why would I want an impersonal God?

you don't want an impersonal god....what does your personal god do for you...

Asks only that I treat others as I would like to be treated, which is personal.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:59 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Why would I want an impersonal God?

you don't want an impersonal god....what does your personal god do for you...

Asks only that I treat others as I would like to be treated, which is personal.


maybe you have a more personal relationship with god....do you ask god for help...
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:07 pm

To ask God for help as a believer is redundant, but all too human. God helps. Otherwise, given my life history, I could have ended up as a bitter old man.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:09 pm

Ierrellus wrote:To ask God for help as a believer is redundant, but all too human. God helps. Otherwise, given my life history, I could have ended up as a bitter old man.


in what way does god help you now....
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:20 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:To ask God for help as a believer is redundant, but all too human. God helps. Otherwise, given my life history, I could have ended up as a bitter old man.


in what way does god help you now....

In the help of family and friends during and after my operation. In allowing me some mental stability with meds and counseling.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:32 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:To ask God for help as a believer is redundant, but all too human. God helps. Otherwise, given my life history, I could have ended up as a bitter old man.


in what way does god help you now....

In the help of family and friends during and after my operation. In allowing me some mental stability with meds and counseling.

doesn't all that have to do with other humans helping you....how about your direct relationship with god
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:36 pm

The relationship with God exists in others helping me. Perhaps that is as direct as God gets.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:45 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The relationship with God exists in others helping me. Perhaps that is as direct as God gets.

at this time is it anymore direct for you...
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:48 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:The relationship with God exists in others helping me. Perhaps that is as direct as God gets.

at this time is it anymore direct for you...

No. The help is through people who "are God's hands and feet" on this planet.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:55 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:The relationship with God exists in others helping me. Perhaps that is as direct as God gets.

at this time is it anymore direct for you...

No. The help is through people who "are God's hands and feet" on this planet.


that is where I am at....do you have any other insight//feeling about the nature of god...
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:06 pm

Others helping and the sometimes charity of strangers are all of God that I'm aware.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:08 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Others helping and the sometimes charity of strangers are all of God that I'm aware.


how about nature
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:47 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Others helping and the sometimes charity of strangers are all of God that I'm aware.


how about nature


Nature is a great help to me...at times it almost becomes my lover. Not that I ever truly lose my sanity but there are times when nature binds me to itself and I am made whole again.
Religare - to bind. :mrgreen:
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:06 pm

the more I study nature the more I believe in god.....I am an agnostic believer....try that one
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby James S Saint » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:09 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Others helping and the sometimes charity of strangers are all of God that I'm aware.

That's the relevant part.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:06 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Others helping and the sometimes charity of strangers are all of God that I'm aware.

That's the relevant part.

Thanks, James.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:01 pm

turtle wrote:the more I study nature the more I believe in god.....I am an agnostic believer....try that one


The more I look at the universe, I can see the possibility of Something far different and inscrutable than anything we try to define with our puny brains.

I'm an agnostic because I choose not to believe. Believe what?!
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:46 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
turtle wrote:the more I study nature the more I believe in god.....I am an agnostic believer....try that one


The more I look at the universe, I can see the possibility of Something far different and inscrutable than anything we try to define with our puny brains.

I'm an agnostic because I choose not to believe. Believe what?!


i like the agnostic position....we don't know about the nature of everything...
i personally like to define god as nature or the ultimate reality of everything...
what do you think about that..
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:56 pm

So long as the agnostic position means I cannot know, I would not agree with it. Any statement about wonder and awe at Nature is a statement of knowing by effect. Even if the knowing is described as ineffable, it is still an awareness.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:12 pm

Ierrellus wrote:So long as the agnostic position means I cannot know, I would not agree with it. Any statement about wonder and awe at Nature is a statement of knowing by effect. Even if the knowing is described as ineffable, it is still an awareness.


I thought agnostic meant------ not knowing....
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:18 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:So long as the agnostic position means I cannot know, I would not agree with it. Any statement about wonder and awe at Nature is a statement of knowing by effect. Even if the knowing is described as ineffable, it is still an awareness.


I thought agnostic meant------ not knowing....

But do we not know the experience of wonder and awe in the presence of Nature? What if we see God=Nature? Can we then be considered agnostic? When does experience=fact?
Last edited by Ierrellus on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:24 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:So long as the agnostic position means I cannot know, I would not agree with it. Any statement about wonder and awe at Nature is a statement of knowing by effect. Even if the knowing is described as ineffable, it is still an awareness.


I thought agnostic meant------ not knowing....

But do we not know the experience of wonder and awe in the presence of Nature? What if we see God=Nature? Can we then be considered agnostic?


if we accept GOD=NATURE....then we don't know very much....so I would have to remain agnostic until we know about the nature of things...we don't know origins
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:27 pm

We will never know origins or final endings. We live in the mesocosm, the middle ground between extremes. All we know is where we exist. Origins and endings are based on our own mortality, our temporal existence. Consequently, we can only guess about what exists beyond our mesocosmic reality.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:50 pm

Ierrellus wrote:We will never know origins or final endings. We live in the mesocosm, the middle ground between extremes. All we know is where we exist. Origins and endings are based on our own mortality, our temporal existence. Consequently, we can only guess about what exists beyond our mesocosmic reality.


we may be able to understand the origin of life on earth...
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:37 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:We will never know origins or final endings. We live in the mesocosm, the middle ground between extremes. All we know is where we exist. Origins and endings are based on our own mortality, our temporal existence. Consequently, we can only guess about what exists beyond our mesocosmic reality.


we may be able to understand the origin of life on earth...

We have only theories about the origin of life on Earth. One is that the planet was seeded when organic chemicals contained in comets met warm springs at the bottom of the sea (Crick). Another is that pools of organic soup produced nucleic acids, which formed archaebacteria. If one believes God did it, the argument is always how on the scientific side. On the emotional side, the argument is why.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Posts: 12712
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
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