GOD=NATURE

Half-formed posts, inchoate philosophies, and the germs of deep thought.

Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:59 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:We will never know origins or final endings. We live in the mesocosm, the middle ground between extremes. All we know is where we exist. Origins and endings are based on our own mortality, our temporal existence. Consequently, we can only guess about what exists beyond our mesocosmic reality.


we may be able to understand the origin of life on earth...

We have only theories about the origin of life on Earth. One is that the planet was seeded when organic chemicals contained in comets met warm springs at the bottom of the sea (Crick). Another is that pools of organic soup produced nucleic acids, which formed archaebacteria. If one believes God did it, the argument is always how on the scientific side. On the emotional side, the argument is why.


good way to put it....I don't know about the why thing...does anyone.....we may be able to know exactly about the origin of life....we are learning about the pre-biotic chemical evolution...crick is still an idea...I like the urey idea better..
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:56 pm

Why does Science and Religion have to be separated here? Even if a God did it, the present Science remains the same.
And one can still, with or without a creator,within one's totality, stand in awe of it.

WHY can also be uttered within its totality. The answer to that is found within each Self's core.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:56 pm

Why does Science and Religion have to be separated here? Even if a God did it, the present Science remains the same.
And one can still, with or without a creator,within one's totality, stand in awe of it.

WHY can also be uttered within its totality. The answer to that is found within each Self's core.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:33 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Why does Science and Religion have to be separated here? Even if a God did it, the present Science remains the same.
And one can still, with or without a creator,within one's totality, stand in awe of it.

WHY can also be uttered within its totality. The answer to that is found within each Self's core.


in my core there is no answer....
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:36 pm

turtle wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Why does Science and Religion have to be separated here? Even if a God did it, the present Science remains the same.
And one can still, with or without a creator,within one's totality, stand in awe of it.

WHY can also be uttered within its totality. The answer to that is found within each Self's core.


in my core there is no answer....

Are not wonder and awe at Nature some sort of answer? It just may not be answer enough.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:51 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Why does Science and Religion have to be separated here? Even if a God did it, the present Science remains the same.
And one can still, with or without a creator,within one's totality, stand in awe of it.

WHY can also be uttered within its totality. The answer to that is found within each Self's core.


in my core there is no answer....

Are not wonder and awe at Nature some sort of answer? It just may not be answer enough.


absolutely...it is answer enough for right now...it keeps me on a good road...
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:00 pm

turtle wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Why does Science and Religion have to be separated here? Even if a God did it, the present Science remains the same.
And one can still, with or without a creator,within one's totality, stand in awe of it.

WHY can also be uttered within its totality. The answer to that is found within each Self's core.


in my core there is no answer....

Oh, I think that within your core, turtle, there is a answer or response - as Irrelleus said...wonder and awe are an answer.
A response does not only come from the mouth. Most "real" responses come automatically, almost without one's own volition, when it comes to responses at our core.
Unless we're really self-aware, we may not even be aware of them.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:31 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
turtle wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Why does Science and Religion have to be separated here? Even if a God did it, the present Science remains the same.
And one can still, with or without a creator,within one's totality, stand in awe of it.

WHY can also be uttered within its totality. The answer to that is found within each Self's core.


in my core there is no answer....

Oh, I think that within your core, turtle, there is a answer or response - as Irrelleus said...wonder and awe are an answer.
A response does not only come from the mouth. Most "real" responses come automatically, almost without one's own volition, when it comes to responses at our core.
Unless we're really self-aware, we may not even be aware of them.


arc please see my post on july 31 at 8:51....
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:37 pm

Apparently the desire to find God or Nature cannot be ultimately appeased. The journey is the answer.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:58 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Apparently the desire to find God or Nature cannot be ultimately appeased. The journey is the answer.


that is right on..... for theist and atheist
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:41 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Apparently the desire to find God or Nature cannot be ultimately appeased. The journey is the answer.


that is right on..... for theist and atheist

The journey is the answer is based on writings of Hesse. See "Sidhartha", etc.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:41 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Apparently the desire to find God or Nature cannot be ultimately appeased. The journey is the answer.


that is right on..... for theist and atheist

The journey is the answer is based on writings of Herman Hesse. See "Sidhartha", "Steppenwolf", etc.
Last edited by Ierrellus on Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:17 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Apparently the desire to find God or Nature cannot be ultimately appeased. The journey is the answer.


that is right on..... for theist and atheist

The journey is the answer is based on writings of Hesse. See "Sidhartha", "Steppenwolf", etc.


does jesus fit in here
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Yes, as a way, as a journey toward God. Jesus as final end is idolatry.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:24 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Yes, as a way, as a journey.


are hesse and jesus on the same path...
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:38 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Yes, as a way, as a journey.


are hesse and jesus on the same path...

There is only one path with different names.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:51 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Yes, as a way, as a journey.


are hesse and jesus on the same path...

There is only one path with different names.


I don't see that ier...can you help me..
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:02 pm

You already know the answer. The path is living by the Golden Rule. It addresses both your well-being and that of others. It's not easy to follow in a sick society; but it is the only way beyond that.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:05 pm

Ierrellus wrote:You already know the answer. The path is living by the Golden Rule. It addresses both your well-being and that of others. It's not easy to follow in a sick society; but it is the only way beyond that.


thank you....you have expressed that very well...and I agree 100%... =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:20 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:You already know the answer. The path is living by the Golden Rule. It addresses both your well-being and that of others. It's not easy to follow in a sick society; but it is the only way beyond that.


thank you....you have expressed that very well...and I agree 100%... =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


i don't see any atheists around....which means they are just attacking the fathergod...
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:04 pm

turtle wrote:

arc please see my post on july 31 at 8:51....


So, turtle, in response to Ierrellus' Are not wonder and awe at Nature some sort of answer? It just may not be answer enough.

You wrote:
absolutely...it is answer enough for right now...it keeps me on a good road...


So, not to assume, the point you're trying to make is that you do experience awe and wonder - in other words, you do respond at your core. Is that true?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:16 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle wrote:

arc please see my post on july 31 at 8:51....


So, turtle, in response to Ierrellus' Are not wonder and awe at Nature some sort of answer? It just may not be answer enough.

You wrote:
absolutely...it is answer enough for right now...it keeps me on a good road...


So, not to assume, the point you're trying to make is that you do experience awe and wonder - in other words, you do respond at your core. Is that true?

yes :)
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby turtle » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:52 pm

turtle wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:You already know the answer. The path is living by the Golden Rule. It addresses both your well-being and that of others. It's not easy to follow in a sick society; but it is the only way beyond that.


thank you....you have expressed that very well...and I agree 100%... =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


i don't see any atheists around....which means they are just attacking the fathergod...


where are the atheists....bring it on
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:15 pm

i don't see any atheists around....which means they are just attacking the fathergod...

where are the atheists....bring it on


It just occurred to me and I may be wrong but maybe the sign of a real atheist would be one who doesn't attack God. How can we attack what doesn't exist for us? lol
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: GOD=NATURE

Postby Ierrellus » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:48 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
i don't see any atheists around....which means they are just attacking the fathergod...

where are the atheists....bring it on


It just occurred to me and I may be wrong but maybe the sign of a real atheist would be one who doesn't attack God. How can we attack what doesn't exist for us? lol

They attack the idea of a God.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
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