Wealth Makes Market Players Worse

I propose a problem for anyone who likes the market and thinks it’s good at solving problems, which includes me.
Since there’s a “What is Wealth?” thread, I should probably define what I mean by the titular statement:
By ‘wealth’, I mean whatever money represents. In particular, I mean the accumulation of money and the power it affords.
By ‘market’, I mean an economic network for the exchange of goods and services, using money as a medium.
By ‘player’, I mean an individual in the market, i.e. someone who exchanges goods and services.
Basically, there seems to be a problem whereby the accumulation of wealth makes people’s choices about what to prioritize less and less dictated by value, and therefor less likely to make the market efficient. It is fairly obvious that, as a person’s wealth increases, their valuation of money decreases. For instance, it would cost significantly more to have a rich person open a door for you than a poor person. And a rich person would pay more for the same services, being more likely, for instance, to buy a glass of wine at an expensive restaurant, though the bottle would go for significantly less at a liquor store. The problem results because a market requires scarcity to price things effectively. In the case of large accumulations of wealth, there is less scarcity to encourage efficient pricing, and so they are less efficient market players.

The problem can be addressed in a couple ways.
-We could deny that the pricing becomes inefficient, and say that because these people are wealthy, their comfort is actually more valuable, so when, for instance, they buy a four dollar soda, it is actually worth that much to them to have a drink of soda. However, this only works if those who are wealthy are people who earned their wealth (i.e. did not inherit or win it), which is not the case in any real market. Additionally, the lack of scarcity still seems to be a theoretical problem, which this reponse doesn’t address.
-Instead, we could accept that this criticism is accurate, but maintain that the market is still efficient for other reasons. The reason could be that on average, the influence of the very rich cancels out. That would make sense if the actions of wealthy people are truly not in line with value at all, because then their actions would be random; even if their actions weren’t entirely random, it is plausible that where they diverge from random, they do so towards real value. However, this is probably false, and at best unverified. There’s no reason that wealthy people’s decisions couldn’t trend towards something frivolous, and looking at where the super rich spend their money, it seems to be the case.
Another explanation is that there simply aren’t enough, or wealthy enough, rich people to influence the market on a large scale, and the inefficient influence they have is overwhelmed by the efficient influence of the majority of players. This again seems to be an empirical matter, and for similar reasons to the above (the frivolity of purchasing in the US), I think it is probably false.
In any event, both these reasons are contingent, and thus subject to varying effectiveness. If wealth becomes highly concentrated, both forces to which I appealed (cancellation over all rich people, and a small total rich influence on the market) have less of an effect. So even if they are true now, the criticism is a continuing worry, and something that needs to be monitored to ensure continued market efficiency.

Isn’t this the law of supply and demand?

Isn’t it relative as to who wins and who loses when supplies and demands cause changes in values? Your statements seems to imply that it is always bad when values change.

I guess it’s a failure of supply and demand. Supply and demand works when the resources are limited, but in cases of extreme wealth, there are no limits. It’s clear if you consider an actually infinite store of wealth: if you have infinite money, it doesn’t matter how much you pay for a coke, because all sums will have the same effect on your total store of money, which is to say zero.
But the problem persists when we address functionally infinite stores of wealth. Just as your average work-a-day individual wouldn’t think much of the difference between 1 and 2 cents, or 10 and 20 cents, a very wealthy person will not much consider differences of hundreds, thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars: if you’re a billionaire, $100,000 is 1/10,000 of your money, or .001%. That’s the same portion of your money that $1 is if your net worth is $10,000, which is the average net worth for african american families.

Misestimating prices by hundreds of thousands of dollars can seriously distort pricing, and cause it to deviate from what supply and demand would dictate.

Many factors distort supply and demand from the simplest models - politics, for one thing. When we’re mad at France, the demand for french stuff goes down, no matter what the price. Government subsidies affect price, of course. Levies and taxes do. The largess of foreign aid by the G8. And different goods have a differing amount of elasticity (against price) than others. Demand for clean water is less elastic than for caviar, or even oil.

Everyone in the US is very, very wealthy, compared to most people in the world - so globally-traded goods are very much affected by the presence of the wealthy in the market - which in this example is a nation of 300 million. Every time a person on food stamps buys a bag of Fritos, it affects the price of rice (a grain) somewhere.

The market is efficient, but not perfectly so, and rich people affect markets for widely-sought goods less than many other factors. But efficiency doesn’t mean “good for the many”. Good for the many would be that everything costs a cent.

Concerning wealth, if everyone was rich by what is considered as rich at this moment in the near future, would that push ‘being rich’ back to mediocrity? I suppose inflation would catch up to that wealth status where $100.00 would buy what $1.00 did then.

Yeah, Caleas, I think you’re implying that supply and demand should lead to good for the many, and maybe it does, but supply and demand isn’t supposed to lead to the good for the many. It’s just a rule of economics. It’s independent of politics, which drives the decisions on what is fair economics and what economic rules should there be.

the golden rule still applies

he who has the gold makes the rules and decides what is fair

reap the revolution

-Imp

Yes and no. The market can take your gold. You can have gold one day and none the next.

That’s kind of what the whole Obama thing has been about. The power of the pack/market over the individual.

Bush fell in line with Impenitent. His thing is pack/market sacrifice for the good of the leader. Ie, ‘you don’t know what I know. You don’t have the intelligence reports, so you need to believe me and do what I say because I am the leader’.

Both points are true, though. The power of a leader comes from the individuals who follow the leader and can be taken away by those individuals, and, in order for a leader to effectively lead there has to be faith enough in his decision to not ask questions.

I don’t mean that market should be good for the many. I don’t mean to say anything about who the market should benefit. What I mean to say is that vast disparities of wealth lower the quality of the information contained in market fluctuations. Markets, when they are efficient, price goods and services by aggregating information from a network of players. When the money itself is valued differently by the players, the information that is added by any one player is worse.

I initially said that wealth (meaning accumulation of wealth) makes bad market players, but I think it can be generalized to any wealth disparity decreases the quality of the information the market provides. Someone who is totally destitute is as useless a market player as someone who is infinitely rich. Neither adds any information to the market, the former because he cannot, the latter because she can buy anything at any price without consequence. As I argued before, this will remain true as we move from absolute to relative poverty and largess: someone very poor compared to a mostly well-off society adds less information, because they undervalue almost everything, including their own well-being (e.g. homeless people who fight on camera for money).

If anything, then, I am saying that we should make society more equal in order to improve the market, and not the other way around. The market can be used as a tool to allocate resources, and the more equal society is, the more accurately the resources will be allocated.

EDIT: spelling and grammer.

Well, increased demand can both raise and lower production costs - increased demand fo commodities usually means that those commodities may have to be acquired more expensively, such as planting marginal land or extracting oil from shale. But economies of scale can alsoi be created that lowers price. This doesn’t change the model, it just shows that there are many factors in price. But demand is always one of them, and the dollars flowing to a good don’t tell you where they’re from. It’s the amount of demand that counts.

In fact, there are many innovations that are consumed only by the rich at first, and this demand may help create the economy of scale that brings the price down. Cell phones are a good example. So the wealthy do provode information that affects the price of consumer goods that the not-so-rich (eventually) purchase.

There are functional limits to this for most goods I think, so there’s only so much disposable income required in a market economy to do this job. But it’s true that the wealthy do bring goods to market that the middle class, at least, benefit from. At least they think they benefit from it. I know lots of folks on welfare that have cell phones.

I think I get what you’re saying.

A competition is only a competition if it isn’t known who will win. You can say when someone always wins and the game is stacked competition stops, and when someone always loses the game is stacked and competition stops.

Like when you play someone who is infinity better or infinity worse than you in a game, you eventually stop because it becomes boring, the economy will stop too when wealth is separated into haves and have nots. Like you stop because you’re tired of losing, or bored of winning, the haves and have nots will stop engaging in financial improvements for the same reasons.

sd - this is pretty much the condition that Rawls was addressing with his Difference Principle, which is, I think, the most useful and important feature of his theory, which, while heavily influenced by Economics, was about social justice.

An aggregate is an aggregate. It reflects what is true taking everyone into account.

I think this argument is biased towards the middle class. It says rich and poor people add bad information. It’s only bad information from the perspective of the middle class. If a rich person says he’ll pay a hundred thousand for a hamburger, then a hamburger is worth a hundred thousand. It’s not a bad price from every perspective, only the perspective of a poor person or a middle class person.

the wealth of any individual participating in a market system affects the system as a whole only in the sense that they may be willing to pay more for a product/service (this is a may, it is not a guarantee). if the proportion of “wealthy” individuals is large enough in any given market, prices of those goods could tend to rise if increasing pricing meets little negative effect on demand. this is the elastic nature of certain products/services, such as those that are considered “needs” as opposed to “wants”, and of course, individual purchasing power affects the elasticity of any good/service…

this does not make “market players” any worse or any better. relative levels of individual disposable income have an indirect effect on pricing via elasticity; it doesnt affect market information in any “good” or “bad” way, other than reflecting a slightly higher demand.

The wikipedia article on distributive efficiency offers a great illustration of what I’m talking about here:

Here, the gift certificates represent money. As a person spend their money, they spend it on things that are less and less valuable to them, so the money has less and less worth for them: when they buy the first CD, the certificate is worth 1 awesome CD. When they buy the 17th CD, the certificate is worth a CD that had funny art on the cover.