Ground Zero Mosque: Why Should i Care?

[uglypeoplefucking]

Seriously, get over it.

[jonquil]

Also -- in all fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 19, 2003.

[OneDay]

because it's you duty as an American citizen to care. you may not want to invovle yourself with what isn't in your backyard but this great country must work as one on every single issue its faced with or America will fall apart like the thousands of empires/countries before us. the building of the Ground Zero Mosque has the potential to re-win the favor of millions and millions of Muslims-a respected religious group which we cannot afford to ignore any longer. America is made up of immigrants of all skin and religion, which is a beautiful thing. but to deny any one religion rights to construct a temple of worship is a crime, especially using the excuse that it is the Muslim's fault 9/11 happened. Christians have had the privilage to build Churches throught areas of Turkey and other Middle Eastern states of which the Crusaders once ravaged. Imagined how much sympathy was needed by the Muslims to allow their ancestors greatest enemy rights to build on their own soil, in cities the Crusaders once killed and burned. America is strong, and to forgive and accept another is to show great strength.

[felix dakat]

Should they be allowed to build it? Yes. If they build it, will it be the focus of conflict and violence? Yes.

[jonquil]

http://www.markfiore.com/political-cartoons/watch-ground-zero-mosque-islam-ramadan-cordoba-house-animated-video-mark-fiore-animation

Right ee o, Mr. Dan, "anywhere but there" , no ermm, "anywhere but here." Aw, wotthehell, let's go swimming.

[uglypeoplefucking]

because it's you duty as an American citizen to care. you may not want to invovle yourself with what isn't in your backyard but this great country must work as one on every single issue its faced with or America will fall apart like the thousands of empires/countries before us. the building of the Ground Zero Mosque has the potential to re-win the favor of millions and millions of Muslims-a respected religious group which we cannot afford to ignore any longer. America is made up of immigrants of all skin and religion, which is a beautiful thing. but to deny any one religion rights to construct a temple of worship is a crime, especially using the excuse that it is the Muslim's fault 9/11 happened. Christians have had the privilage to build Churches throught areas of Turkey and other Middle Eastern states of which the Crusaders once ravaged. Imagined how much sympathy was needed by the Muslims to allow their ancestors greatest enemy rights to build on their own soil, in cities the Crusaders once killed and burned. America is strong, and to forgive and accept another is to show great strength.

by "why should i care?" i meant "what reason is there to oppose?"

i basically agree with you

[Dairdo]

by "why should i care?" i meant "what reason is there to oppose?"

i basically agree with you

Not American here - so take this for what you will - but I had it explained to me as follows:

Either -

A) You're for construction on the principle of property rights, OR

B) You're against construction on the principle of national defence - apparently the money trail and decades worth of public speaking record associated with the owner suggests potential "nefarious" motives.

If you find (B) to be baseless, having followed the articles and reporting that appears to be popping up (no comment on source quality), and have the utmost confidence in your intelligence services to recognize and stop threats that may exist - ignore (B) and run with (A).

I thought it was pretty straight forward. As a Cancuk - I still hold on to the idea that America's national defence is the best in the world - regardless of 9/11 - and imagine all credible threats that any individual, no matter their affiliation, will be stopped in their tracks. So I'm behind (A).

[OneDay]

Should they be allowed to build it? Yes. If they build it, will it be the focus of conflict and violence? Yes.

whoa whoa buddy i dont think theres gonna be violence, unfortunatly half the time the things i think end up being wrong. is it just me or does all this fighting seem counter productive, i mean the mosque is [i]eventually [i] gonna be builte right? these people who lived through 9/11 hopefully are gonna realize that there were Muslims who died that day to, and i aint talkin about the guys in the planes.

[Oran]

I agree with UPF. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't go ahead. Every arguement I have come across for opposition has been incoherent and unjustifying of prevention. If anyone can change that, I'd be surprised.

B) You're against construction on the principle of national defence - apparently the money trail and decades worth of public speaking record associated with the owner suggests potential "nefarious" motives.

On this point. The construction and operation of a mosque in this place fascilitates only one process/activity that is otherwise unfascilitated or insufficiently so, and it is that of ''moderate'' worship. Fact.
9/11 occurred without a mosque in this exact location. The radicalisation of persons occurs far more effectively through the internet.

In reality, a highly visible symbol of islam in downtown New York will contribute to a normalisation of the dual perceptions of both islam and the U.S.A, to each other.

EDIT:
btw, I'm obviously not American, but considering the influence of the U.S.A on the world, it's state of affairs is pertinant to me.

[tentative]

The latest polls say 6 out of 10 Americans are against building the mosque anywhere near ground zero. That says that 60% of Americans who vote in polls have succumbed to the superficial media driven crappola about 9/11, Islam, and the "war on terror". This is surprising. I would have guessed it would be closer to 75 - 80%. The media hasn't done a very good job of brainwashing. The demonizing of Islam should have been more successful than 60%

UPF, I understand where you're coming from, but ulimately, we should care. The real challenge in this has nothing to do with mosque or not, but the challenge to religious freedom. Behind all of this is the misplaced hatred of anything Islamic. People of all religions should see the dangers of singling out a particular religion in sentiments of repression. That's what the first amendment was about. Sadly, the christian religious right seems to be oblivious to the possibility that if the muslim community is repressed in their efforts to build a mosque, there might come a time when christian churches could meet the same fate. That 60% of Americans appear to be in favor of such repression is the real danger.

[jonquil]

I so hate hate. Link here:

http://www.alternet.org/rights/147920/f ... _9_11_site

Scientists building the first atomic bomb at Los Alamos referred to the coordinates where a test device was detonated as “point zero.” When the horror of nuclear warfare was unleashed on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the term “Ground Zero” entered our lexicon. The expression has come to mean the epicenter of a catastrophic event, be it a nuclear detonation, a disease epidemic or an earthquake. It is the point from which damage spreads, whether it’s radioactive fallout or a deadly contagion.

That the site of the World Trade Center has come to be known as Ground Zero illustrates how the American public has come to fetishize the attacks of 9/11. It’s not an apt analog for the physical destruction that resulted from the attacks on the World Trade Center. But it is an appropriate metaphor for the virulent and socially acceptable bigotry against Muslim Americans that has radiated out from Ground Zero and spread across the United States.

One thing is clear: the feverish discourse about Muslims’ role in American society is not about the proposal to build an Islamic community center a couple of blocks from the World Trade Center site. Park 51, as it’s being called, merely let an ugly genie out of the bottle. The dark stain of Islamophobia had spread far and wide long before the controversy erupted.

In May, a man walked into the Jacksonville Islamic Center in Northeast Florida during evening prayers and detonated a pipebomb. Fortunately, there were no injuries. (If the man had been Muslim and the House of worship a Christian church, the incident would have garnered wall-to-wall coverage, but while the story got plenty of local press it was ignored by CBS News, Fox, CNN and MSNBC.)

The article continues to provide more examples of hate crimes and the whole thing is a stain upon the social fabric of this country.

[tentative]

UPF,

Here is confirmation of why we all need to be concerned... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38795716/ns ... york_times

[tentative]

And another. JHC. I was hoping we weren't as stupid as we are acting, but... http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/21/revi ... itics.html

[jonquil]

Keith begins with that great quote from Martin Niemoller and then proceeds with a caustic commentary on those who want to restrict freedoms through hate.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26189.htm#idc-cover

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

[Future Man]

clearly jesus wants us to hate all other religious groups and to destroy them at all costs.

i mean really, this is the place where jesus was most present (the world trade center) and his grace most evident in his profitable manipulation of the world market.

Only there could his magical majesty be seen as americans caused wealth to flow from third world losers into wealthy yacht-owners.

*Beautiful, ballin' Jesus, please let us destroy this heathen race with all of your might. I pray that your grace will fester their bullet wounds will gangrene, and we know that their insufficient medical facilities will do the rest.*

*Hate, Hate, hate, hate, Jesus hates.* (Sung to the melody of "Stairway to Heaven")

Oh wait no he doesn't. Please go away, Republitards. Forever.

[tentative]

energizer bunny stupidity just keeps rollin' along... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life

[jonquil]

[Jakob]

Nice development - seriously - because of all the exaggerated objections from, I don't know, redneck and republicans and such, the PC crowd here distances itself so far from the very concept of objection to a mosque near ground zero that it pretends to not even understand what could be bad about the idea.

[Ingenium]

Well, whatever is bad about this mosque that hasn't been about self-interested BS spewed from the pieholes of wingnuts, Repugs, red state bloggers and Faux News talking heads would also have to be bad when it comes to all of the other mosques in the U.S., many of which have been around for decades. And there's a ton of 'em.

[jonquil]

Well, whatever is bad about this mosque that hasn't been about self-interested BS spewed from the pieholes of wingnuts, Repugs, red state bloggers and Faux News talking heads would also have to be bad when it comes to all of the other mosques in the U.S., many of which have been around for decades. And there's a ton of 'em.

By the way, the whole thing was set up by Faux News.

[Jakob]

Well, whatever is bad about this mosque that hasn't been about self-interested BS spewed from the pieholes of wingnuts, Repugs, red state bloggers and Faux News talking heads would also have to be bad when it comes to all of the other mosques in the U.S., many of which have been around for decades. And there's a ton of 'em.

Ever heard of the concept context?
I suppose you ignore it on account of general principle.
I try not to do that.

[Jakob]

Well, whatever is bad about this mosque that hasn't been about self-interested BS spewed from the pieholes of wingnuts, Repugs, red state bloggers and Faux News talking heads would also have to be bad when it comes to all of the other mosques in the U.S., many of which have been around for decades. And there's a ton of 'em.

By the way, the whole thing was set up by Faux News.

What do you mean, the hype or the mosque itself?

[jonquil]

Well, whatever is bad about this mosque that hasn't been about self-interested BS spewed from the pieholes of wingnuts, Repugs, red state bloggers and Faux News talking heads would also have to be bad when it comes to all of the other mosques in the U.S., many of which have been around for decades. And there's a ton of 'em.

By the way, the whole thing was set up by Faux News.

What do you mean, the hype or the mosque itself?

Both. Check it out.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/ ... que-effort

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/fox-sh ... osque-imam

[Ingenium]

Well, whatever is bad about this mosque that hasn't been about self-interested BS spewed from the pieholes of wingnuts, Repugs, red state bloggers and Faux News talking heads would also have to be bad when it comes to all of the other mosques in the U.S., many of which have been around for decades. And there's a ton of 'em.

Ever heard of the concept context?
I suppose you ignore it on account of general principle.
I try not to do that.

My post was not devoid of 'context', lol. But I guess you'll first need to share with us the context within which you view this particular mosque before your point can be made. All you've done so far is assert that some people are pretending not to understand what could be bad about the mosque.

So, please give me proper context...what is it that could be bad about the mosque? Are there any other ideas about it being bad that haven't been already thrown out by the parties that I mentioned? Once we know, perhaps we can then discuss the claim on its merits and within the relevent context.

[Xunzian]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3885237...ime_and_courts/

NEW YORK — A 21-year-old man is being held without bail on charges he stabbed a New York City cab driver in the throat after asking whether he was Muslim.

Manhattan prosecutors say Michael Enright spoke to the cabbie in Arabic and then said, "Consider this a checkpoint," before attacking him Tuesday night on the Lower East Side.

Enright was arraigned in a Manhattan court Wednesday on charges of attempted murder as a hate crime, assault as a hate crime and weapons possession.

His lawyer, Jason Martin, says Enright was a senior in college at the School of Visual Arts, lives with his parents in suburban Brewster and has done volunteer work overseas, including in Afghanistan.

The driver told police that his attacker asked whether he was a Muslim and when he answered yes, Enright pulled out a folding hand tool, reached into the front seat and slashed him.

Enright, of suburban Brewster, N.Y., was arrested Tuesday night, said Deputy Inspector Kim Royster, a New York Police Department spokeswoman.

The driver was treated for cuts to the throat, upper lip, forearm and thumb, Royster said.

The New York Taxi Workers Alliance identified the victim as Ahmed H. Sharif, a yellow cab driver for 15 years. In a news release, the labor group noted that the incident occurred amid tension over plans for a new Islamic cultural center and mosque in Lower Manhattan near ground zero.

"I feel very sad," the release quoted Sharif as saying. In the current climate, he added, "All drivers should be more careful."

Police said the mosque wasn't mentioned during the incident that began at about 6 p.m. Tuesday when Enright hailed the cab at East 24th Street and Second Avenue.

Enright was carrying a tool called a Leatherman and, after the exchange about the driver being Muslim, turned it on him, police said. The driver fended him off, then tried to lock him inside the cab and drive to a police station, they said.

The suspect jumped out a rear window at East 40th Street and Third Avenue, police said. An officer there noticed the commotion, found Enright slumped on the sidewalk and arrested him.

A case for the tool was found inside the cab, but the tool itself was missing, police said.