Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

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Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby old6598 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:01 am

There is a new line of thought emerging recently that says that the generation of people who were born - lived from 1950 to 2000 was the exception, a quirk case of "better future", "stable employment", "increasing wealth", etc. and we shouldn't expect it to be that way anymore: that all of the history before and all of the history after that time was and will be dominated by poverty, uncertainty, no health care, pensions, jobs etc.

This is a typical right wing - conservative - protect the rich and don't give anything to anyone who isn't a superstar, or who somehow "deserves it" ideology based on a form of resource scarcity myth: there is not enough health care, jobs, houses, etc. for everyone. The 60s - 70s are over, that was an exception, expect to be poor and not have anything anymore.

And everyone is easily buying it, really believes that we have all these debts, that health care must cost oh so much money, that there is not enough for pensions, that there is not enough houses, everything must increase in price, colleges must cost ever more, etc. They are all brainwashed in all of this BS, they all approve all this BS.

This is false, the truth is the exact opposite, there has never been a time of greater wealth, excess capacity, technology, know how, etc. and possibility to give the basics to a very small amount of humans, only 10 billion which is nothing at all compared to how how much wealth and productive capacity we have sitting idle.

This wealth, this possibility to give everything to everyone was achieved by the application of Science and Technology towards production, this is the end result, the success of 100 years of Research and Innovation and Services and trillions of dollars invested worldwide in knowledge that have finally achieved the goal to give all to everyone (while they always talk about more research and innovation, the real problem is to distribute equally the results we have achieved, otherwise what is the talk of research and innovation all about anyways ?)

But we have a cave man right wing thug ideology that wants everyone to believe that we have all these huge debts, that there is not enough wealth and jobs for everyone: bottom line is if you don't give the free salaries and cheap rent homes to everyone, the rich will just hog it all up, that money isn't going to go anywhere better, so either it is distributed to all or only a small minority will rob it.

We need free salaries, cheap rents, high quality homes, free health care and especially HUGE SCALE PROJECTS THAT EMPLOY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. It is much harder for all those unemployed to sit idle 8 hours a day instead of working towards a common goal. People want and need jobs, they are not lazy slobs.

And even if there is a minority who wants to sit at home and watch TV all day or play video games, well guess what ? an entire industry employing millions is based on other millions being idle and consuming movies and TV and video games. We have had enough of this "hard work", "you are lazy", "you have to earn it and deserve it" BS and guilt complex, because if there weren't millions of idle people consuming, entire industries would not exist and millions more would become unemployed.

Another myth is democracy (attacking the Chinese with nobel prizes), so the idea is you can all fight amongst each other as long as the basics and what really counts is not guaranteed : jobs, health care is optional but you are free to fight and argument all your different views and lifestyles, what a ripoff.

And also we fight absurd wars, we fight wars with one hand tied on our backs, we have to be careful to be "good" and not kill "civilians" in Afghanistan: when what we should do is either carpet bomb the whole country back to the stone age (and give them democracy) or just get out, like the russians did, since they knew that you can't win a war there.

We need huge government - and private company conglomerates creating huge planet size and solar system sized projects hiring millions for things like billions of skyscrapers on Venus, billions of giant ocean liner ships and zeppelins all across Jupiter and Saturn since they are ocean - gas planets.
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby nameta9 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:22 am

old6598 wrote:We need huge government - and private company conglomerates creating huge planet size and solar system sized projects hiring millions for things like billions of skyscrapers on Venus, billions of giant ocean liner ships and zeppelins all across Jupiter and Saturn since they are ocean - gas planets.


Either we are fighting and working against nature, on conquering it or subduing it or we will end up fighting each other as in war: the huge excess capacity we have and so many unemployed will discharge this capacity in wars if we don't start huge projects.
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby old6598 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:59 am

from:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/10/bank-shot.html


The mistake is to think that there is some kind of "external reality", that there are external rules that will make the US "blow up", etc. that the stock market "will go down" because people can't find jobs, etc.

Nothing further from the truth, there are no rules, only instantaneous adjustments, only decisions forcing things to be anyway a majority of controlling elements decide to make them be: the US can go on for 1,000 years like 2005 and even more so, there is no limit, anything goes, as long as the controlling elements decide, and with their free will, force reality to conform to the way they design it: everyone else is just programmed to play according to the rules and believe in them, but the rules are not metaphysical, they are arbitrary, man made rules, valid in this time (may be valid for centuries or just a few days, like when everyone was saying the Euro was "going to die"; and now a few months later its value has increased by more than 20 % on the dollar, etc.).

There is no such thing as "wealth creation" by private corporations or competition, or dynamic economies, etc. they are all make believe figments of the imagination that have some vague relationship to power structures in that some people have more power on others, can fire or hire others for no reason at all, aside the reasons they make up as being valid.

Reality is essentially a construction: what we really have is a world with 10 billion people, with a huge potential for building (especially given how much can be automated and optimized by technology), we have constructed a huge database of knowledge in all endeavors, we can extract and manipulate the natural resources we have (especially given how genetically engineered bacteria can generate oil and energy and anything else you can imagine, microrobots that can build skyscrapers in a few hours, nanorobots, etc.) that it is really absurd that so many people only see limitations, only see pollution, global warming, economic crisis, etc.

We today can essentially do anything: and that is the real problem, we can have any goal and easily achieve it, it is actually very easy, in fact TOO EASY , that civilization does not know how to deal with it, can't accept it, can't except the complete free lunch science has given us, so we fight and argue and create instabilities of all kinds, and fake "economic crisis" to not face our complete and total responsibility on how we want our existence to be.

The biggest free lunch of all is INFORMATION, there has never been so much information and knowledge and so many people involved in creating it as today through the internet: and in fact the monetary value of information will become zero, so all this talk of innovation and services and research which is essentially information will have zero value because it will cost zero, hence it will be the biggest free lunch imaginable. Books, music, blogs like this, all kinds of research, ultimately technology and all the basics like homes and food will be free, cannot cost anything anymore because the system is so rich it doesn't know what to do with itself.

But you all keep on thinking we are doomed, we are going into the dark ages, energy is finishing, we have to grow some crap in our backyards, etc. Genetically altered plants will grow trillions of tons of every kind of food completely for free for trillions of people, and you guys all still think like 18th century Amish...

We need solar system sized projects to keep all those billions of minds occupied, Zeppelins inside the Sun, Zeppelins inside Jupiter and Saturn, we need trillions of people, we need mega population explosions to colonize the solar system and eventually the galaxy, get over it, science and technology have achieved Nirvana, now you have to have the courage to use it for the common good and overcome this cave man system of Capitalism and economy...
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby Dairdo » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:14 pm

old6598 wrote:There is a new line of thought emerging recently that says that the generation of people who were born - lived from 1950 to 2000 was the exception, a quirk case of "better future", "stable employment", "increasing wealth", etc. and we shouldn't expect it to be that way anymore: that all of the history before and all of the history after that time was and will be dominated by poverty, uncertainty, no health care, pensions, jobs etc.

This is a typical right wing - conservative - protect the rich and don't give anything to anyone who isn't a superstar, or who somehow "deserves it" ideology based on a form of resource scarcity myth: there is not enough health care, jobs, houses, etc. for everyone. The 60s - 70s are over, that was an exception, expect to be poor and not have anything anymore.



Advocates of economic freedom do not believe in "resource scarcity" - as wealth is created, not discovered - and only free market economies have ever demonstrated any real capacity for persistent wealth creation. Only those "social justice" collectivists reference resource scarcity nonsense as some kind of justification for the abrogation of individual rights and the institution of some all knowing "big government" to tell us how our lives are best lived - while the leaders of this new super-government live the double-standard and gorge themselves directly proportional to the extent we the willing victims are willing to sacrifice in a race to the economic and philosophical bottom.

Right and left - republican and democrat - both sides play this same card to pursue identical objectives. They only differ in the route they take. There is no right and left anymore - only those that believe no human being has a right to direct/control the lives of other human beings - and those that believe they know best when it comes to how others should live. Which side are you on?
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby old6598 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:59 am

from :

http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/10/bank-shot.html




"Look at what was invented in the 19th/early 20th century.

Internal combustion engine, rail transportation, electric light, electric motors, powered flight, refrigeration, telegraph, radio, television, mechanization of agriculture, the theory of relativity, quantum mechanics...you could go on and on.

What have we invented that was remotely as transformational as those inventions above? You want to talk "new economy" you have to look back a hundred plus years.

I think what we've done in recent decades is puny. The internet in my opinion is exceedingly small potatoes in comparison. Space flight maybe?

So are we mental midgets in comparison to those days?"




The low hanging fruit is the easiest to get: all of those inventions, which are huge were the simplest to make, the low hanging fruits. Those were the first to be picked, but as Science and Technology progresses, it becomes increasingly difficult to pick valid fruits (if there are even many left at all) since they are hanging much higher, like fusion energy, or Man trips to Mars, etc.

You can discover Electricity only once, the natural world does not offer another discovery as powerful, all encompassing and incredible as Electricity: this is a one time free quirk of nature and the laws of physics and how we, as humans, are configured with respect to nature with just the right combination of sense organs and mental contraptions to process and interact with reality.

The same can be said of Calculus and Mathematics, Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, etc. Silicon technology and Microprocessors and Moore's law and heck, even the electric guitar and rock music are really all one time quirks, free lunches, something that can be discovered only once, and I doubt very much that in the future there will be any other such huge discoveries even possible. What we have now is the problem of how to use these discoveries, and that becomes a political problem.

Maybe the only thing really left is the direct manipulation of brain - mind, the direct changing of our neural circuits, implanting chips in brains, experimenting with all kinds of drugs and wild chemicals in brains, creating Instant Singularities in the brain, virtual realities, etc. But this does not really imply "new discoveries" as those huge ones mentioned previously were like Electricity and Flight, but self manipulation of the brain and body, this is more chemical and drugs and "health care" - "pharmaceutical" and maybe "computer - virtual reality" based than anything else.
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby nameta9 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

The Internet is just as transformational as flight, space travel or cars: it is the ultimate transportation machine, any place at anytime instantaneously, you just need to transfer the information of a place, not the physical place. Every point on earth (and more) is connected to every other point, indeed eventually everything can be connected to everything. So I wouldn't try to limit inventions to only the 19th or 20th century: the real limit is that you can invent the Internet only once. There are only so many really transformational inventions possible, and I don't see many left to find in the future.

You can also say that a very refined virtual reality can be infinitely transformational: just one huge invention or artifact that has a transformational power millions of times greater than all of the previous ones combined is needed. You don't need to keep on inventing or discovering new items like Electricity or the Internet, such large transformational inventions are no longer needed once the ultimate invention is made: a total virtual reality, or the technological Singularity or the Instant Singularity completely transforming minds - brains - sense organs, etc. is needed.

Indeed you can create a virtual reality that simulates new laws of physics where you are inventing huge transformational items like Electricity everyday if you have fun with that: only the informational relationship and interaction being equivalent to when Electricity was invented is needed to create a similar experience.

Another thing I noticed in the last few years is how a lot of technology has really peaked and we are essentially fighting against other people, their decisions and will power and not against matter - physics and natural limitations: if you designed or repaired a color TV in the 1980s you were fighting against physics by creating circuits and designs to optimize electronic functions, it was an objective kind of activity, everyone that could contribute, contributed as in the accumulation of knowledge, as a serial labor activity, as in labor accumulates and creates more results and wealth, as a "common good", in that each invention or perfection led to better results: today a digital TV system is just an aggregate of arbitrary designs and systems all decided by other people according to standards according to their free will, you essential fight against other people and not against nature.

The same reason why software has not (and will never progress) as opposed to hardware: hardware is objective, accumulative, labor is serialized, there are only objective ways to improve a CPU or memory chip whereas in software, everyone has a different "standard" or quirk way of doing things in mind, every program is its own quirky system, one time design, made up of thousands of arbitrary will powers designing it with hugely inefficient programming languages and choke full of politics, office politics and economic fights, etc.

I remember when JAVA and Object Oriented came out, at the time there was PASCAL that was way better and more advanced, but JAVA dominated: a throwback of decades in software, and at that point I realized that software will never advance because it is essentially politics, and then how many programmers would you need if all the major programs where well written in PASCAL ? maybe a few million less...
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby old6598 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:49 am

nameta9 wrote:
Another thing I noticed in the last few years is how a lot of technology has really peaked and we are essentially fighting against other people, their decisions and will power and not against matter - physics and natural limitations: if you designed or repaired a color TV in the 1980s you were fighting against physics by creating circuits and designs to optimize electronic functions, it was an objective kind of activity, everyone that could contribute, contributed as in the accumulation of knowledge, as a serial labor activity, as in labor accumulates and creates more results and wealth, as a "common good", in that each invention or perfection led to better results: today a digital TV system is just an aggregate of arbitrary designs and systems all decided by other people according to standards according to their free will, you essential fight against other people and not against nature.

The same reason why software has not (and will never progress) as opposed to hardware: hardware is objective, accumulative, labor is serialized, there are only objective ways to improve a CPU or memory chip whereas in software, everyone has a different "standard" or quirk way of doing things in mind, every program is its own quirky system, one time design, made up of thousands of arbitrary will powers designing it with hugely inefficient programming languages and choke full of politics, office politics and economic fights, etc.

I remember when JAVA and Object Oriented came out, at the time there was PASCAL that was way better and more advanced, but JAVA dominated: a throwback of decades in software, and at that point I realized that software will never advance because it is essentially politics, and then how many programmers would you need if all the major programs where well written in PASCAL ? maybe a few million less...


And this ties in nicely why "hot new skill sets" is a farce: back then, you accumulated a skill set according to objective limitations, a good circuit designer was valid and could be measured objectively: today a good programmer is undefined because the languages and styles and buzz words always change ( on purpose so corporations can always hire and fire and have the excuse of people not having the right skill sets that are always changing, arbitrary quirks that don't lead to nothing and are contrasting labor processes as opposed to serial and accumulative labor processes) , in a subtle political fight to see who dominates who, but only according to the present fashion, according to what is perceived as innovation, or innovative, and in fact most that is considered innovative today is decades old and mostly a bunch of crap.
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:26 pm

from:


http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/10/the-to ... blues.html


...

I find it amusing how you tend to get to my same conclusions without knowing why: I have been writing it and explaining it many times, no one understands it.

1) We have massive excess productive capacity in all possible endeavors worldwide, therefore work is essentially no longer needed.

2) We live in automatic economies where most work is performed by machines and large organizations with the help of technology and sheer numbers, given the global nature of economy.

3) The amount of wealth present today, as the possibility to give everything anybody on earth wants and/or needs is virtually infinite: just look at how many empty homes are sitting idle in the USA and Spain just to name one.

4) Therefore society must simply decide to give out free salaries to everyone, work is an option that is not even needed in most cases. And free or cheap rents to pay in high quality and large luxurious homes, look at all the empty McMansions.

5) The movement that modern economy is based on is essentially virtual movements, the movement of information and less and less on the movement of physical items, but this is hugely automated with the Internet, Cell phones, etc.

6) Therefore indeed, people should just not do anything but instead of staring outside a window, THEY SHOULD WATCH TV ALL DAY LONG AND SLEEP MORE AND MORE HOURS (24 hours of just sleeping would be perfect) .


7) Economy does not exist, only temporary rules and relationships between people and groups of people define how they behave and act and interact in a given interval of time while those rules have a large enough consensus: but the rules will always change, man is an infinitely programmable machine that can associate any input to any output, any sequence of manipulations and information transformations to any other sequence, any input to any emotion - feeling - reaction - thought (and pain/pleasure, anger, fighting, etc.), to any event, etc.

8) Therefore, given the huge excess productive capacity available worldwide, it must be discharged with huge SOLAR SYSTEM SIZED PROJECTS, TO KEEP BILLIONS OF PEOPLE OCCUPIED AND WORKING AND NOT KILLING AND FIGHTING EACH OTHER LIKE LITTLE KINDERGARDEN BABIES, HENCE, TRILLIONS OF SKYSCRAPERS ON THE MOON, MARS, VENUS, TRILLIONS OF HUGE OCEAN LINES IN THE SUN, ON JUPITER AND SATURN, TRILLIONS OF ZEPPELINS INSIDE AND ACROSS JUPITER AND SATURN, TRILLIONS OF SUBMARINES AND JET PLANES, HUGE MILE LONG JET PLANES ALL ACROSS JUPITER AND SATURN, AND IN THE SUN, HUGE PARTICLE ACCELERATORS, 100 KM LONG, ETC. TRILLIONS OF SKYSCRAPERS THAT ARE HIGH 100 KM, ETC. HUGE POPULATION EXPLOSION TO COLONIZE SOLAR SYSTEM AND GALAXY, TECHNOLOGICAL SINGULARITIES MANIPULATING BRAINS, CREATING NEW NEURAL CIRCUITS IN BRAINS, NEW SENSE ORGANS - EMOTIONAL CIRCUITS - SUPER VIRTUAL REALITIES, CHIPS IN BRAINS, WILD CHEMICALS IN BRAINS, ALL KINDS OF WACKY EXPERIMENTS, ETC

9) Most posters here believe in the Resource Scarcity Myth, well there has never been more resources available today to do anything possible and give everything to everyone, there is no population explosion (we might reach at most 10 - 15 billion in 50 years, which is nothing at all, a grain of sand compared to how many huge skyscrapers we could build to host trillions of families), all this resource scarcity myth serves to keep the poor in place and not share the wealth that is out there waiting to be used by everyone. The entire "science" of economics just reinforces this crappy ideology, justifying all possible ways to not distribute wealth and let a small minority hog it all up for themselves. There are 100 trillion dollars in banks that don't know what to do, that is how the subprime mess got started, too much wealth, too much money, no way to distribute it, and the myth of profit which is a completely man made invention with no real physical necessity.
Last edited by nameta9 on Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:38 pm

and


TRILLIONS OF ZEPPELINS INSIDE AND ACROSS JUPITER AND SATURN
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby old6598 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:41 am

Giant Metal slabs so as to build thousands of trillions of 1,000 km high skyscrapers on the SUN and in the SUN. Trillions of some of these skyscrapers can be huge minds, with modified neural circuits, imagine what experiences MATTER could undergo in such structures, new sense organs, emotion circuits, super virtual realities, super giant artificial BRAINS and lives, etc.

So what am I smoking DJ ?

You guys are stuck in a puny past of people fighting each other over breadcrumbs and over who is the lazy slob, etc.

We live in a sea of free will, only our free will and what we or I or the single deciding entity decides what reality is counts. There is no external reality, only free will and who assigns, decides and constructs total reality counts, history is much more significant than physics, free will is the elementary particle not electrons. Only truths exist, as they are assigned, made up, only the truth exists, everything is true.
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Re: Why Innovation and R&D anyways ?

Postby nameta9 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:26 pm

So "capitalism" is creative destruction: then I love capitalism, what we need is to build a few billion mega skyscrapers across the earth and then nuke them all to dust with a few million hydrogen bombs, and let the cycle repeat every 10 years. The collateral damage, as a few bilion people is irrelevant, that is why we need huge population explosion, maybe just automate making people in huge genetic engineering factories that create them and grow them and program their brains in a few minutes, and the cycle repeats. And then we extend to the solar system, nuke all the planets, build and destroy skyscrapers like crazy, and then finally nuke the SUN with trillions of hydrogen bombs, KILL MOTHER NATURE, it dosn't deserve to live in my book.

And create huge "car engine" accelerators that smash colliding car engines in high speed magnetrons that are a few 100km wide. Let's rush to get Mother Nature on the run, watch out, Science, Technology and Progress are out to get you.

Matter goes on a field trip: the universe wants to have some fun, this is mind over matter big time.

Since no one really has a clue, everyone on earth generally sucks, I am the only one who knows the real solution, so listen up young man Odumbo, activate the following program immediately:

1) 100 new rockets to Mars, manned missions within the year 2020.

2) 1 million huge skyscrapers across the USA, in all of the major cities within the year 2020.

2) 100 million new high quality homes built by the federal government having cheap rents, 200 dollars a month (2,000 sq ft - 180 sq m area) 3 bedrooms.

3) Free basc salaries to all.

4) Free health care to all.

5) A huge program for the future, progress, space exploration, modified brains, technological singularities.

6) End all wars.

7) A huge mass transit system across the USA, with BUSES, diesel - electric, chevy volt system.

Do you want a smoke DJ ?

AMEN.
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