A Strange Taboo..

I wonder why no one ever talks about WORK - LABOR ? Exactly what work or labor do you think will be available in the future for millions of idle people in the world ? Exactly what need is there for millions of people working 8 hours a day for a salary at least sufficient to live ? Can you imagine a sequence of physical manipulations (as in a factory or farm ?) or a sequence of information manipulations (as in the “advanced” service - information economy ?) that must be performed for 8 hours a day and that is worth a living salary ? And those activities should be in some way all different and available for tens of millions of idle people worldwide ? Like all those unemployed in China, India, Africa (that are starting to become frustrated, since they got no WORK and no HOUSE) ?

The truth is the present Technological Economy along with its capitalist, free market, “meritocracy” BS is completely set on eliminating as much labor or work as possible, be it white collar or blue collar. And why shouldn’t they ? Who wants to give a salary to a person for an activity of 8 hours a day ? If I can find a way, any possible way to not give that salary, I will, this is after all the religion of free enterprise, of competition, of the strongest and smartest winning. So how on earth can this system have anything to do with the “creation of jobs” if its one and only goal is the elimination of as much work as possible through optimizations, computers, robots, automation, third world slave labor, you name it.

The funny thing is, this Technological Economy needs to, wants, and will very efficiently eliminate as much work as possible no matter what, and in the meanwhile keep on chanting the mantra that we need more education, research, technology: the very items that are helping to kill as much work as possible.

But no one talks about this, it is a big TABOO, because then everyone would have to start taking a good look at their own work environment and start seeing how much work can really be eliminated, how fragile their own situation is, how fake and not needed so much work really is. And they would start to read the handwriting on the all: work is no longer needed, will become obsolete, get over it.

We, therefore need a new system of relationships, FREE SALARIES and CHEAP RENTS along with especially huge public - private programs hiring millions for huge ambitious projects like Rockets to Mars, high speed trains, Skyscrapers, etc.

Good topic.

Very serious problem.
Global population right now is out of control.
Maybe even more significant than climate changes.

I already explained many times that this kind of thinking is Right Wing Thug thinking by saying there are not enough resources available, check out:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174513

212.13.195.254/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=171623

and many other dealing with the Resource Scarcity Myths of the Right Wing.

The problem is never population or resources, it is purely intentional, purely power related, power struggle of rich beating up poor, the problem is that of a system that can give everything to many billions more people, but intentionally chooses to create fake scarcities as to get poor people fighting each other.

so are you saying there is no population problem.

No, absolutely, THERE IS AND HAS NEVER BEEN A POPULATION PROBLEM. There has been this huge brainwashing that has been done to most people worldwide because it is so easy to imagine this fake linearity of more people meaning “less for me”, more people meaning “things will run out”. Never has there been a greater lie. Aside form the fact that there is no population explosion, the exact opposite has been happening for decades, population growth is very rapidly declining, we will not even reach a puny 15 billion by 2050, so go figure.

There has never been more resources available, more knowledge, more technology, more possible solutions to every possible problem you can imagine, read all my posts. We can easily host trillions of people in skyscrapers, can create all the food we need by genetic engineering, can mine the solar system, we can do everything.

And that is the problem: people for ages have been used to scarcities and limitations, but now that they have been completely eliminated by the application of Science and Technology to all productive endeavors creating an essentially Infinite Resource Society, we can’t believe it, we can’t accept it, we can’t wrap our heads around all the possibilites that are available, so we go back to the resource scarcity myths, the peak oil myths (just skyscrapers could easily solve any energy problems by living, working and shopping in buildings where virtually no transportation, therefore no gasoline is needed), the environmentalists long for the stone ages.

All these ideas are Right Wing, reactionary, conservative ideas that want to stop progress and go back to the past.

Millions of people are also very infactuated with imagined linearities that are no longer operating, like more work means more wealth, or “hard work” means more product, or more people will kill “the health care system”, more people will mean “not enough food”, etc. Nothing further from the truth, these are all simple linearities that people imagine, simple imagined causes and effects that do a great job of transfering wealth and power to the rich and capitalists while the poor have to fight an imaginary, fake, but imposed resource scarcity myth.

Check out:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174147

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174178

too many babies. i dont want to pay for babies that
someboy else has. big problem in my state.
what is your solution.

1. Cheap Rents, government built homes / homes are abundant anyways.

2. Huge public - private projects hiring millions for Rockets to Mars, Skyscrapers, etc.

There are not too many babies, look carefully at the numbers and don’t be fooled. US population growth is way down compared to many other places. Don’t believe the myth that people have too many babies, it didn’t happen and won’t.

What state anyways ? Most US states are practically empty compared to many other places worldwide.

There is enough for everyone.

we have gangs of young boys that are not working in my county. we dont have money to start a program.
what do you suggest for my county.
this is part of the world.

The Federal Reserve prints trillions of fake dollars and gifts it to the rich, banks, capitalists with all kinds of abstract and fake excuses. Well Obama and the federal government should just take a few trillions of those dollars and start healthy public - private programs employing them all in ambitious programs like Rockets to Mars, High Speed Trains, Skyscrapers, etc.

Will obama do it ? does anyone think it should be done ? I doubt it, people have been way too brainwashed by all kinds of imaginary interdictions… But that is what should be done immediately.

are you recommending a federal program for my county.
where will the real money come from.
should we go into debt for this program.

There is no difference between real and fake money. Money is just a place holder. Beware, the entity of unemployment in the US and most of the world is now so high, that only huge public, government run programs can do anything.

So they start hiring these kids, start them in factories, start as many programs as possible, start right away, this will slowly help kick in the natural consumer economy of a place, things would improve, but people can’t see that this is the only solution.

Whoa? This sounds a little crazy. I work 10 hours a day on average. No I am not constantly performing tasks for 10 straight hours, but some people (out on the product lines) practically are. I am in the office though so its a bit different of course and I while I do put in 10 straight hours of continuous reports or whatever, I am here on duty when needed when the situation arises which can arise at any minute and I am paid to be here. How do you think this isn’t the case for most companies?

You know the details of all those reports, maybe they are not all needed. Of course the reason that you and the production people may need to work 10, 14 or even 20 hour days is exactly because hundreds of thousands are excluded from the labor process. This is done intentionally, to give the impression that there is all of this huge “hard work” needed so as to justify the capitalist, free enterprise system of slashing costs and making fewer and fewer people do more and more work.

I have analyzed this in some other posts, I have written a lot of them here and in kunstler.

But I know, I am pushing on a string because:

1. You can’t solve all problems, everywhere for all people and for all time: in a sense there can never be a global solution, there must be a lot of different solutions to a lot of different specific situations. Each specific situation can always contradict any possible global solution, but this is done intentionally, to atomize work and society, divide and conquer the weak.

2. If everyone has been programmed and brainwashed worldwide in the last 100 years, that this is the only possible way to organize society, creating super workaholics, high unemployment, profits growing ever higher for fewer employers, that this is a metaphysical law, the we have all of these (imaginary) debts, that most people’s minds cannot see any other possibility, well then so it be. There is not a chance in hell that anything will ever improve, it has been so deeply hardwired in everyone’s mind that it is useless even discussing it.

Actually some reports all the details are needed, sometimes they might be needed and are there just in case. Its there to prevent major disasters as well. Thousands are excluded from the labor process intentionally because it is more efficient for one person to work a 10 hour day as opposed to two people working two 5 hour days doing the same job. For one, someone who works more knows their job better. Also two people doing the same job will cause confusion and chaos alot of the time. Management does not conspire to give the impression that there are long hours needed so they can hire fewer people so they can raise the unemployment rate or justify the capitalist system, how does that even justify anything? It really does make economical sense for the company. One thing that occurs is however that overtime wages get paid though for going over 40 hours and sometimes that could be needed. In turn that deters overworking some people economically, unless they really are great employees who should do the job at time and a half their average rate.

I don’t know where you work that people don’t look around and see how much of the shit they do is pointless busy work that could be eliminated, but I’ve never worked in a place like that. Fuck, right now I work for the US gov’t. In gov’t work, every. little. thing. must be accounted for, which amounts to loads of paperwork, but if we didn’t have to do all that paperwork I think most people would run out of work to do around lunchtime every day. Believe me, everyone here is aware of how pointless most of it is, but follow procedure we must.

It isn’t the U.S. Government thats for sure. We’re all aware that its too big…

What the problem is that there is a damn mindfucking quantity of inept management out there hiring and firing people not knowing what is going on. The rest of the workforce is pretty incompetent as well. So you have companies who hired way too many people because Wanda over there is whining about too much work because she wants to cover up her ineptness or her desire to fuck off all day, so they just listen to her and whatever other Joe Shmo employee wants because they don’t know how to analyze the situation. Then losses start coming and people need to get laid off because they aren’t profitable. Labor is very expensive and always one of the first things to look at. Not management, because management isn’t going to hire someone to replace themselves. As for the rest, its very difficult finding anyone better than the guy you already got in management, if you’re upper management and will hurt the company short term more likely than not Either way though its all a bunch of stupidity in Management not realizing what the right thing to do is because they want to live it up like MTV Cribs and go golfing or whatever. So it screws with the economy because people don’t know how to run a business and end up losing their jobs which they probably shouldn’t have had in the first place.

well. when i say real money i am meaning money that is not borrowed.
and half of that gang of kids doesnt want to work.
they are stealing.

I’m sorry, I don’t follow.

Sorry - you said “I don’t know where you work”… I was responding to that.