Overpopulation Debunked

Overpopulation Debunked

There is no overpopulation on earth. Population growth is rapidly declining, and will decline ever more because:

1. Man and Woman are atomized entities today, too conflictual (don’t know the effect of feminism, anyways), they are all so specific and different (as that is a value), so specific that finding the magic key between them is becoming impossible, also for so many other reasons, mass communications, oddball models of perfection impossible to achieve, porn, the desire to betray just for boredom, etc.

2. A man or woman has to first “fall in love” with the reciprocal: now that is already a long shot, not happening so much anymore, is out of fashion or out of the heads of people. Then the reciprocal has to fall in love with that specific person, and that is an even longer shot, usually a man likes a pretty woman he can’t get or vice versa. And then the affair, if it kicks in, has to last some time a few months, a few years, and has to try to overcome all kinds of conflicts, fights, imaginary differences, challenges of the two against each other on an infinite number of issues, etc.

3. They have to have sex, and that is another even longer shot, considering the man has to be “COCK-SURE”, not impotent or weak or whatever, the woman, not frigid or whatever, the sex has to “be good” according to other models that are impossible to achieve, etc. etc.

4. They have to be able to “conceive” a child, and it seems like that is getting harder for both man and woman, all kinds of complications.

5. Once born, raising the child is another long shot, by that time, a second child is rarely desired or possible.

Now, aside from all the economic uncertainty and difficulties young couples have to face, the more educated the lady the more conflictual the relationships and the girls, especially in develping countries, the ones that still have some population growth, are getting educated faster and more than boys. You can see where that is going. And even if they manage to pull off 2 kids, that is just barely below replacement level. So there, there is no and won’t be any overpopulation.

Another thing I always hear is people saying kids are lazy, workers are lazy, this group of people is uncapable of doing this and so on, very easy to criticize and take down people, but all of this is not true, it is just an easy linearity in the minds of most people that have a deep desire to hate, find fault, and beat up others. If you give young people an even small spritual reward in saying they are doing a good job (especially in developing countries), most will do even more and better, but we are all hell bent in the west at breaking up everything and getting everyone against everyone else.

Another thing is how people concentrate so much on the wrong doings of politicians, on their corruption, I mean, who cares, it has always been like that and always will be, concentrate on the laws and ideas that you want to promote.

And the only laws and ideas that must be promoted today is Free Salaries to most, and public- private projects that will give pride to a nation, that will employ all people in ambitious projects like Rockets to Mars. Instead of always putting down everyone, atomizing, we need proud - ambitious projects that young people can dedicate themselves to.

The market and economy will no longer generate enough jobs, they have to be explicity created, and those that don’t work have to get a free salary.

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/03/make-no-mistake.html

Competition and Productivity in the public sector

I was reading they want to layoff teachers too if they don’t perform. Now, aside from the fact that in education, performance is hard to measure, and exactly what education is “needed” or necessary to what future “labor market”, that is as usual as vague and impossible to define as it comes (intentionally, so you can always go back and say, oh, you got it all wrong, you should have studied this and that that became important overnight, and now you have to ga back to training or college for the new skill, hopefully paying for it all with some new debt), the real reason for all of this and union busting etc. is to introduce “productivity” and “competition” in the public sector also. What they really mean is they want to introduce more conflict points, more status challenges amongst people, fights between teachers and principles, more fights, more anxiety, more insecurity, more pain in general, more worrying if you taught the right stuff, if your donkey class can pull off the donkey test “demonstrating performance”, etc.

It seems to me that what is so desired and so wanted with all of this performance and competition and productivity myth, is to create as many conflict points in society as possible, as much insercurity as possible, as much “you have to deserve it” as possible, so people can constantly fight their status challenge, compare each other, conflict over everything. Constant competition is a constant measuring of items between each other, so they are defined by the measurement, so in essence the fight, the conflict, the challenge, the competition is the definition of all, is the reason to live even because it becomes what occupies your mind for all the hours you are awake.

But the truth is, we need more competition and productivity like a hole in the head. The system is and can very easily become hugely more efficient by very small changes if it is really desired. Granted that would imply kicking out of work a few million public workers tomorrow morning so it isn’t done, but it is constantly suggested and implied. We already live in a system that generates huge wealth for free, that is constantly optimizing and automating and you name it productivity and competition in all productive endeavors automatically, by itself and no one can do nothing about it. No matter how small the amount of work being done worldwide today is serialized and accumulative, by the every essence of the economies of scale, information technology, internet, and many other interactions, every accumulation and serialization of labor, as in more scientific and technological knowledge adds up and kills more and more future jobs.

So the real fight is between induced conflict points and challenges and competition in terms of people fighting each other and the effects of productivity and competition in terms of free wealth. Who will win. The free wealth will win because it is real, concrete, not some make believe fairy tale based on imagined superiority of some teachers against others and they being hosed by some arbitrary judgement. Anyone can judge anyone else according to anything and assign them better or worse, but this is the point, the Right Wing Thug ideology wants to create more judgement points, as many as possible in as many situations as possible so as to increase internal, personal conflicts as much as possible. These conflicts are not needed and serve to interdict, limit and decrease the wealth of the system, serve to cut down the free wealth the system generates. Maybe this is the real tug of war, between a huge amount of free wealth generated by technology and the need to kill that wealth with a huge amount of conflicts (both in the name of productivity and competition, go figure).

It reminds me of the myth of always needing new science and math graduates since 1950, they should have met the need by now, oh, I forgot, after 40 years old you are no longer capable of science and math (obviously all the experience is worth nothing, we have “innovation” that will make them all obsolete) that is why they are laid off from the private corporations.

We need Free Salaries, get over it. There is no way possible that real - productive labor will be available for millions of people in the future with a constant increase of wealth by the application of Technology and Science to all productive endeavors. This wealth will trickle through society anyways, there is no way of stopping it anyways, there is so much available, like all the food that people throw out everyday in the US and EU. It is funny how everyone thinks free salaries is some kind of insanity and sin, while almost everyone today who doesn’t work in agriculture or manufacturing is getting a free salary anyways, even though they don’t notice it, they work in optional sectors, sectors that have no real necessity at their base. Of course the organizations and capitalists and bosses of said fake work make it as stressful as possible, make it as hard as possible (so as to simulate “hard work”) exactly to cover up the fact that it is mostly fake work, just like financial companies and lawyers, hours on end, mostly fighting other people. Oh, i forgot, work is a proxy for power relationships.

Another mistake JHK and this blog makes is to confuse OIL with Technology. It is mostly technology that harnishes energy from oil, not some metaphysical property of oil which is just carbon chemistry, some carbon atoms that can be made in so many other ways. So OIL MAY RUN OUT, BUT TECHNOLOGY CAN’T RUN OUT, IT IS ALWAYS ADVANCING NO MATTER WHAT, AND CAN BE APPLIED IN SO MANY WAYS, IT IS JUST LIKE MONEY THAT CAN’T RUN OUT BECAUSE IT IS SIMPLY A PROXY FOR RELATIONSHIPS AND INTERACTIONS BETWEEN PEOPLE AND THESE CAN NEVER RUN OUT, SO NEW ENERGY IN TERMS OF NEW TECHNOLOGY CAN’T RUN OUT AND IS INFINITE, at least until man kills himself as you all wish he does through infinite conflict points, judgement points, competition in terms of fighting each other, etc.

The Wars are the most non hypocritical thing there is, just fight and get rid of all of the fluff and excuses, fight and may the strongest man win.

There is virtually no relationship anymore between competition and productivity with the general economic well being of a society, this connection is make believe and is false, is used to give the dominating class ever more power and advantages over the dominated class.

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/03/make-no-mistake.html

“Shifty eyes. Avoidance. No common ground. No communication. No communion of shared experience. Suspicion. Illegality. Cash payments. Save havens. Illicit networks. Safe houses. Being Extra careful. Fraud. Tax evasion.”

I undersand. My little model of reality I have in the controlled environment of my own mind breaks down completely when compared to the reality on the streets where you have millions of people behaving in every way you wouldn’t imagine, making all kinds of mistakes and bad choices, behaving in everyway to contradict any model or pattern, even just to contradict your models and pattern for the fun of it. Or maybe there really are all kinds of resource scarcities on the ground and I am fooling myself in thinking it not so. OK, criticism accepted. I could be wrong on everything, no problem, But when I say free salaries it is a scandle, when the dominating fairy tale economic model repeats forever competition, skill sets, productivity and on and on, everyone accepts it, no one ever challenges it or even notices how ridiculous that global - macro model of reality is itself.

The abstraction is the enemy not the puny corruption of the liberal politicians, the macro model of economy that is passed as necessary conditions all the choices that are then made. For example, in the name of competition and productivity the right wing finds some local inequality or some local inefficiency to fight. The fight seems right, like the fireman getting a 100,000 dollars pensions, but in the process they subtly change the general laws and hose an entire class of workers, everyone agrees, it seems like the right thing to do, but they are waging and winning a full out class war by taking away more and more from the weaker classes. The local inequality may have been manufactured on purpose or may have emerged according to some past power relationship, but change just that local inequality, not all the laws, like killing collective bargaining and unions.

Words are really important, if instead of using the word “competition” they used the word of what it really means, “fight”, maybe people would start doubting that it is all for the good. Same with “productivity”, instead of saying more productivity, they said what it really means, and namely, make 1 worker do the job of as many as possible and fire all the others, maybe people would start doubting it. We need more “fights” and more people “fired” like a hole in the head.

Also the present right wing ideology wants ever more status challenges - conflict/confrontation points - judgement points and assignments of winners and losers in all possible situations, as much as possible. Everyday is judgement day, every little boss or power entity wants the freedom to punish and fire anyone else, they want to be able to express themselves, to judge, to exercise power, punish and hurt others as much as possible. But I could even accept this, ok, competition, winners and losers, inequality is ok, the winner is smarter, luckier, works harder, whatever, play the game. But at least stop beating up the loser. Stop insisting that the loser has to keep on fighting a game he will never win by telling him “change your skill set”, compete with this and that, try to open your own business, etc. They want the loser to keep on fighting a losing war forever, they want the pleasure to see the loser constantly beat himself up and put constant effort in trying to win the game.

So then they believe in “equality”, in the sense that everyone must be a top notch winner ? All winners ? No way jose, it is just a cruel system of rubbing in the winner and loser mentality. Like when they say that Spain has to become like Germany, is it reasonable to expect Spain to create 2 car companies that can compete head on with BMW and Mercedes ? Clearly impossible (even for the US), but then they turn around and say, there are hundreds of new sectors where you can invent and compete and win the competition, the be your own boss game. Again, is this reasonable, and for how many people does it work ? It works for the best, but leave all the other losers alone, don’t keep on beating them up.

But other countries aside from the US don’t operate like this, they say, ok, play the game, if you lose, get lost. In the US you have to keep on fighting forever.

It reminds me of the engineer who worked (“hard”) in a company for years, did all the right things, and then one day, SURPIRSE he is laid off. The real subtext of this is all that you did was useless, was irrelevant, you finally woke up and realized that the only thing that counts is the power relationship, who can crush who, who is the winner and who is the loser. And the engineer remains bewildered on … pure cruelty, an idiotic system that operates mostly in the USA with their myth of competition, productivity, efficiency, etc.

Agreed, you can’t solve all the problems of everyone in all places and for all time. And especially, what one person sees as a solution the other sees as the problem, so equality is the solution for me, inequality and fights and “incentives” is the solution for the right wing.

I keep on thinking about these issues, I am like a crashed computer progam that has entered a flawed infinite loop. But what makes the communication important ?

The abstractions are the enemy, not the puny local situations. And everything is abstractions essentially, we are an abstraction driven machine, we communicate because we think there is another mind on the other side that feels and thinks. Why is this important, can we ever touch it ? Will we ever know ? It is an abstraction, denotation, we will never know, I may be just an Aritficial Inte.llligence machine responding, some secret experiment in a laboratory responding, would you know ? Would it change something, does it matter if the target of your communication is real or fake, if you can define these concepts anyways ?

Overpopulation is not debunked merely because global population growht is no longer exponentially increasing. No real world quantity can increase, exponentially or otherwise, forever. But the point is that currently the world’s population is too big. Now, if you live in europe or the US you might think population size is fine, but around the rest of the world population size and growth is out of hand, and causes all kind of social and economic woes. Population density numbers will show that over half of the world’s population (source: worldatlas.com) lives in an average population density of well over 400 people per square mile (3.8 billion people, out of 6.9 billion total). In china, the number is 361; japan, 873; india, 933. Lack of food and water is a real problem for a huge percentage of the people on earth. The pretentiousness and ignorance of the first-world’s citizenry as regards the problems of global overpopulation are simply inexcusable.

It is staggering that the only nation in the world with a procreation restriction is china. Having children is not a right. We have enough people already. Child birthing should be steered in the direction of capping it at around the replacement rate of 2.1. The West is facing its own population crisis of slower growth and old age, and so is out of touch with the situations of the other 5.8 billion people on the planet.

“The world is but a stage…”
“…puppets on strings”

Glad to see you agree, james.

Whe you mean that their is no overpopulation and that it is no longer exponetially increasing are you reffering to the world or the U.S.A. although true that population in developed countries is decreasing in the underdeveloped countries the population is increasing at ever increasing rates this is because of better health care and nutrition and continued high birth rates. overall the global population is increasing.

Is this post supposed to be taken seriously?

Men and women do not have to fall in love to have a child.

There are thousands, probably millions, of people who have more than one child. There are thousands, probably millions, of people who have more than TWO children, or three.

Men and women who care nothing for one another have sex all the time. Ever heard of a one-night stand?

It only takes ONE TIME to get pregnant.

The post is serious, you have all been brainwashed by the Right Wing Thug mentality of resource scarcity and overpopulation. There is more than enough resources and capability for thousands of trillions of people on earth, and even more, read many of my other posts.

Population will not even reach a puny 15 billion, at which point it will stop growing anyways, but the earth can host thousands of trillions, we can colonize the galaxy, we can harness huge amounts of energy by splitting the SUN, by trillions of skyscrapers, by technology, etc. I have written about these issues, many times, read them all, study it all carefully.

Don’t be fooled by the environmentalists and right wing that with the excuse of overpopulation and resource scarcity want to keep on hogging trillions of dollars that should go to everyone.

start with:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174897

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174854

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174704

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174649

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174702

and many others.

Nameta is clearly joking, or trolling. No one is really that stupid.

Do the math: with only 1 million square kilometers of land area (1/10 of the USA), and a groundscraper underground that can easily have 1,000 floors, and each person disconnected from a physical body no longer needed because of advances in virtual realities, chips in brains, you name it, you can easily host 1,000 trillion people. No go on and extend it to the rest of the planet, make it become one giant skyscraper, go on and extend future technology, in 100 years we went from horses to the moon, in the next 300 we will go from the moon to the galaxies and beyond.

You are all conservative, afraid of progress and the future, you all gave up on the future, scaredy cats, the dream of the future we had in the 1960s seems dead now with all of you greens that are anti - science, and pro-capital, pro - rich, etc.

And read all of my posts, study them carefully, you will learn the truth.

Or rather, your version of the truth, which is obviously flawed from the get-go.

Now having read most of your more recent OPs, I can say that I can sympathize with the general direction you are expressing. The problem that I see that prevents me from getting “on-board” with any one of your proposed solutions is that it appears that you are too focused on specific details and groups such that the effects of other details and groups are not included into your resolutions (much like the n-body problem but only resolving for n - 5 bodies). Take this theme for example;

For overpopulation to be evaluated, one must consider where the population limit would be. Upon what is it based? The governing type will dictate strong changes in population limit. The technology-biology merging will strongly effect that limit. The “brainwashing” techniques current and future will strongly affect that limit. The sustainable degree of misery within specific and general population centers will strongly affect that limit. The addiction effect of fear-drive methods will strongly affect that limit. So how can you say that there is or is not an over-population problem?

Perhaps being too populated or believing that you are too populated is a part of the brainwashing/political/techno-advancing/misery-imbuing/fear-driving solution. In which case, we are not actually over-populated at all (and never were).

Until you have a COMPLETE solution in mind, you have no solution at all, nor evaluation at all. All you have is what appears to you to be a “bad situation” with at least specific groups largely contributing. I could make all of the claims you have made against the “Right Wing Thugs” against the Jews (ie. “The Problem of the Jews” in Europe) with far more rational evidence. But how can you claim anything as a problem if you don’t really have a legitimate alternative? Perhaps what is there is the best you can realistically arrange and thus it isn’t a “problem”, but actually a “solution”.

Tell me something I don’t already know.

Nameta, I am proposing we look at the situation in the context of the actual world in which we live, and will continue to live in for the forseeable future. I’m living in a world without 1000 floor underground cities, without virtual non-physical bodies and without cities on the moon… what world are you living in?

Warned.

Well, then if you look at the world “the way it is”, you might as well just give up. Really, the way the world is, is no guide, because it is status quo, the forces wanting to conserve the present system and power relationships are so many and so strong, are so overwhelming that the possibility of any change for the better for most people is zero, the possibility for any change for the worst for most people is 100 %. You must force it and try to imagine a different world, but most people are so set in their ideas and the models of the world they have, that they can’t even imagine that maybe cutting medicare and pensions and killing unions isn’t such a good idea.

The real problem is that people love to punish other people, the punishing - sacrificing, “you had pleasure now you will pay for it” stance is so completely dominating and so completely thrilling for most people it is incredible. They don’t realize that by “punishing” others as in austerity, cutting costs, laying off workers, forcing Greece and Portugal to cut government jobs, making UK students pay more for college there, etc. is NOT GOING TO DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL TO BETTER THE SITUATION OF PEOPLE, BUT WILL GREATLY MAKE EVERYONE POORER AND POORER, CRUELER AND CRUELER, AND MORE FRUSTRATED. And will not generate new jobs or economic growth, that’s for sure.

All of these necessities to cut costs because of debts is all false, a make believe system that is imposed upon millions: just dump the whole system, it is not generating wealth, it is just creating problems for millions of people: and it is all based on the profit - investment motive, money has to grow, has to generate more money automatically, but this idea is insane and not in any way connected to reality. They want to force a system to create free money through profits, but profits can no longer be generated in an economy that is saturated, that has grown and is finished growing, where there are fewer and fewer economic sectors where labor can be used to generate profit. And in the meanwhile, the rich and capitalists are choking on so much cash you wouldn’t believe it.

The only way to wake people up and try to change this system of Excess Capacity and nearly Infinite Wealth is to ask for it, bluntly, since it is all there, Free Salaries and Cheap Rents. That makes everybody’s little computer program running in their minds crash. Maybe this will wake them up and make them finally see through all the huge BS the of Large Scale Economic Models everyone has been brainwashed to believe in (growth, competition, productivity, debts, profits, unemployment, labor, etc., these words are all a joke on everyone).

Check out:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=174897

Now, go on and ban me, if you think there is something wrong with saying this.

The right wing thug mentality has no interest in addressing overpopulation. They want everyone to shut up, get a job, spend as much money as they can without starving to death, have kids, and then die in debt.

I got banned (a few times over now) from Kunstler’s blog because I connected the dots: I showed them exactly how overpopulation (the myth and the scare of oh so many people, there is not enough for everyone), Peak OIl (not enough energy for everyone), environmentalism (too much consumption is bad and “kills nature” (better to get rid of people, not nature), people don’t consume anymore), Immigration or the Mexicans or Niggers or you name it are “too many”, are the “bad ones”, etc. is a completely Right Wing, Reactionary, Pro-Capital, Pro-Rich, Anti-Labor and Anti-Worker, but especially anti-people ideology that greatly benefits the status quo and keeps in place the present power relationships.

The really funny thing of that blog and so many other environmentalist, peak oil, protect the nature, anti-consumerism (back to a natural living), anti - WalMart (back to small mom and pop shops), anti-industry (back to the 18th century where a few rich landlords governed the rest of the people as serfs) blogs and ideologies and movements is that they consider themselves “progressive” or left wing when they are so completely to the Right Wing, so Back to the Past and so against Technology and Science (definitely not progressive!) as applied and as bettering the lives of the majority of people, that they don’t even notice it.

They don’t notice how exactly all of these ideas and ideologies (the last one against Nuclear Energy) are all going into the same direction: take away as much wealth and well being that Science and Technology has given most people and just let it concentrate in fewer and fewer hands (as if it isn’t concentrated enough already).

They don’t see the class struggle and class advantage the dominating social classes achieve by making everyone become environmentalist, pro nature, anti consumerism, etc.

From:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174890

Constant Target Machine

The mind has a constant sequence of targets to achieve, imaginary - fake targets, of which a very small subset are really applicable to reality. There is always a Starting point and a Target to achieve and a sequence of imagined manipulations or interactions, a process that is supposed to navigate the configuration from the Starting point to the End point and Target. Often the process has no relation neither to the Starting point or the Target, and often even the starting point has no relation to the target, that is, often the entire program Start → Process - > Target is a complete fluke, all 3 elements are completely and totally casual and unrelated, but our mind always finds a way to relate things that are unrelated, we are the great cause and effect creator, we invent all. In a sense, often the problem can become the solution and the solution can become the problem.

Both the starting point and target are arbitrarily assigned, they could be anything imaginable, it could also go the other way around, the previous target becomes the new Starting point and new Target can become the previous Starting point. In any case, the mind is mostly solving the same problems it knows how to solve over and over again, or keeps on trying to solve, without ever achieving it, the same non solvable problems over and over again.

Constant Target Machine Part B

The distance between the Start Point A and Target B is really always the same, just like in “information relationships”, the distance between any 2 different configurations is constant and independent of the configurations, only the the sequence of configurations from A to B, namely A A1 A2…AN B, the path that the configuration has to navigate in order to reach the new configuration determines the distance, and this path or process is arbitrary and depends on how the interdictions circuits are arranged (in the mind and physically). Or what pain/pleasure circuits have been set up, or what laws of physics or “social laws” are constraining the system.

There is an imagined distance in the mind between A and B that provokes emotional states, that provokes activities and behaviors, anger or happiness, or whatever, the intensity depending on other arbitrary arrangements, on arbitrary associations between A and B and their emotional - psychological states and meanings, these being also variable in time, being very programmable and instantaneously activated or interdicted: there may be a case where in one moment the desire to go from A to B may be as great as possible creating extreme emotional - physical states and behaviors, and the next moment this desire to go from A to B is totally irrelevant, only to substitute it with another set of Start Points and Targets, in a never ending Constant Target Machine, in a never ending Infinite Recursion Machine.

As in Reverse Engineering the Mind / Armchair Communist / The Communist Manifesto 2.0.