Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Moreno » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:44 am

Old_Gobbo wrote:As kind of an aside: the term conspiracy theorist is such an effective psychological trigger, and I applaud whoever introduced it, but at the same time it has a very telling effect. The moment someone uses that term (or others like it) to describe what you're saying, as opposed to simply saying 'that argument' or 'that' or whatever someone would say for anything else, you catch a glimpse of their thought process.

Conspiracy theorist is a silly term.
Who isn't a conspiracy theorist?
Is there anyone who thinks that 9/11 was not a conspiracy? They would then have to think it was caused by pilot error.

The fact that this term is used by people who when using it are contrasting themselves with people they think are irrational is funny and ironic. But there isö unacknowledged secondary gain in using it. And when will this get noticed by the very people who tend to say their opponents are being unduly influenced by their emotions?
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:06 am

In a world of 800,000 sworn to be secret employees of Homeland Security spread across the country, how can anyone even use the term "conspiracy theory". :lol:

At what point does a theory finally get to drop its doubt and become fact?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Gain is obtained by giving a lot and keeping a little.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Wobbly » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:02 am

It is remarkably difficult to track down the studies on Ganzfeld, and the one's I did track down were mostly meta. It seems that the early Ganzfeld experiments have been abandoned by the literature itself in favor of an "autoganzfeld". Conditions are basically the same except that a computer randomly generates the image, the experimenter is not in the room, and the stream of consciousness of the receiver is both recorded electronically and transcribed by the experimenter. (It controls for problem variables which include when an experimenter knows the image/interacts with the participants/images are physical(finger prints and warmth tip off to the receiver which was in the hands of the sender) ect.) Further, the experimenter does not know the image being shown to the Sender. Interestingly the initial Ganzfeld with the methodological problems generated a significantly higher correlation that autoganfeld.

There is a sort of end all be all study for AutoGanzfeld methodology that all the studies I found referenced as the basis for their experiment. It is Honorton 1983 or 1990, but I cannot determine which study it is, nor can I find the name of either. It may be this, as per Honorton's pax vitae: Psi communication in the ganzfeld: Experiments with an automated testing system and a comparison with a meta-analysis of earlier studies, but it is not available online.

I am at a dead end. All that I can conclude at this point, without seeing the agreed upon conditions, and keeping in mind that there is a serious documented problem where negative results are not published, is that the evidence demands further experiments. They need to test the repeatability of autganzfeld and generate the requisite amount of data. Further, the literature itself is undecided as to proof and proper controls.



As for me, besides the above, I have two serious problems with Ganzfeld based on my current knowledge of the methodology, or one problem that is two pronged. The problem is with the stream of consciousness that occurs while the receiver is in a relaxed state. The experiment lasts 30 minutes which gives the receiver enough time to pretty much say every damn thing that pops into their head, which can and does cover a whole lot of material. In studies that use a judge, would they not have a tendency to key in on the bits of the 30 minutes that correlate to the proper image? It seems to me that they obviously would.

The judge takes notes of everything the person says, then finds out the image the receiver saw, then tries to connect the notes to the image. This is quite flawed. The problem is, there are not enough studies available for me to determine how often this technique is used in the literature.

Also, why only 4 images? To me that seems like they are asking for statistical anomalies in the 200 or so experiment. Humans are cued based on sequence images are shown, and with so few images and so few tests it cannot be ruled out that this occured. I also cannot figure out why the hell the put ping-pong goggles and white noise on with a red light background. How the hell would they know if blanking out your senses would help psi when they are conducting a study trying to figure out if it even exists.


Recommendations: The conditions are replicated as per the literature, only receivers are offered far more images to choose from. Instead of 3 false and one true, do 9 false and 1 true. Also, test it under different conditions and see how the results vary. Never tell the experimenter on site or the receiver what the image was, rather leave that to someone offsite. Why risk this sort of taint when it's so easy to get rid of it.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Wobbly » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:17 am

I don't know how prolific these other two problems are, but they struck me as serious.

1. One study gave a description of the images and and three were normal everyday things and one was exotic. A cup, a coin, a sofa, and then a fire breather. LOL, the right image was the fire breather and the receiver picked it....Of course it's going to be picked, it's the "not like the others" image.

2. A different study used both people who claimed to be psi and those who did not. The people who claimed to be psi scored 15% correct, while those who didn't scored 32%(which is the result of most studies I saw). The immediate problem with this is that it may suggest that an unknown cue is present. Whereas the "psi people" were focusing on there own abilities and missed it, the "lay people" were not and picked up on the cue.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:11 am

Haha..
You ended up exactly where I was expecting. But thks for going through that struggle for us;
1) Finding anything of detail online is damn near impossible. This is true concerning every endeavor including detailed physics.
2) Even if you found the exact hand written notes (as I have on occasion), there are always questions concerning relevant details that are not noted. Thus there is still room for rational doubt.

Almost anything you hear that science has been touted as saying "has been proven" (especially statistically) is far more related to current politics than true Science. Almost anything you hear that seems fascinating is merely that, "fascination", not true Science.

But ESP is a special field that requires truly expert analysis far beyond that of common Science. ESP involves what has been called the "ethereal plane" or field and is actually what I call the "field of relevant affectance" (from Rational Metaphysics and I just realized that I should write a thesis on that subject).

All life really is connected in a way related to what in physics is called "Entanglement". Entanglement is when two particles are formed in such a way that they exactly reflect each other until either is treated differently. A fundamental concept in all thought is the
Equivalency Equation;
Equal Setting + Equal Treatment ==> Equal Result

All thought and indeed all life is assembled in an entangled situation. All thought by all people is formed by conceptualizing relevance. This can be perceived (and often is) in their language. And social engineers attempting to use language to alter society are very aware of that connection. And all life considers relevance as that which has affect upon its survival (else it isn't "alive").

Due to this entanglement at the very foundation of all life, similar strategies form from the efforts of every life. Specialties form such as to add confusing factors, but on a higher conceptual level, whether an engineer or a secretary, everyone is using problem solving algorithms to handle their situation. If anyone is perceptive to these strategies/algorithms, they can predict what life on another world will do without needing to know details or specifics. It is a case of sensing trends formed by priorities. That "field of relevant affectance" (being affected by similar things and working out similar strategies) is the "ethereal plane of reality".

Thus when 2 people are used in these experiments, a sender and a receiver, there really is an entanglement connection between them that has no direct physical association, but rather strictly mental. But sensing that level of mental strategizing to the point of being able to predict specific actions is sensitive business. I have quite a bit of direct experience in such regards and even with me, if I think anyone is testing me or watching, I cannot perform and often do the opposite of what I want.

So when a machine is used in place of one of the people, a significant and very relevant factor is removed. The receiver must now predict strategies concerning the make of the machine and how it is being used. That one is tough and is a whole different ball of wax. So I would expect a serious change when they went to "autoganzfeld" experiments.

But such a change doesn't invalidate the original hypothesis. It in fact constitutes an entirely new hypothesis concerning the entanglement of man-made devices and life. Once those devices become sophisticated enough to be self-learning and strategizing, the entanglement phenomena will return.

So the ESP investigator is actually doing something very relevant and important. He just has no clue what he is looking at or trying to analyze. Thus we get complete non-sense at times being reported as "Science". But the endeavor actually is legitimate Science once they get their act together (IF). Their reports are the beginnings of the effort to finally see what is going on and they find occasional associations that even they don't know how to screw up.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Gain is obtained by giving a lot and keeping a little.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 18585
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Wobbly » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:44 pm

But such a change doesn't invalidate the original hypothesis. It in fact constitutes an entirely new hypothesis concerning the entanglement of man-made devices and life. Once those devices become sophisticated enough to be self-learning and strategizing, the entanglement phenomena will return.


http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385502,00.asp

Apple mimics a religious experience for users. :mrgreen:

I saw the machine as a necessary step. The receiver and sender are still human, it just controls for the experimenter choosing the images and possibly cueing the receiver. If we are testing the connection between the receiver and sender only, then it's a move in the right direction in terms of controls. But you could be right, if a connection between minds is being tested, whatever that means, then the number of minds thinking about the image ought to influence the results.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:11 pm

Wobbly wrote:I saw the machine as a necessary step. The receiver and sender are still human, it just controls for the experimenter choosing the images and possibly cueing the receiver. If we are testing the connection between the receiver and sender only, then it's a move in the right direction in terms of controls. But you could be right, if a connection between minds is being tested, whatever that means, then the number of minds thinking about the image ought to influence the results.

Think of it this way;
One person is asked what answer to a question the other person will give. The test discovers that the subject can reliably predict the answer. The subject, knowing that the other person is a "typical person" can deduce what answer will be given because he knows from experience what answer a typical person will give. He can think in an entangled mode, "If I were a typical person, I would give this.. answer".

But then the other person is changed to a machine. The subject is then asked, "how will the machine respond?" Now the subject has to figure out what a machine would do under the same questioning process, "will the machine be more accurate or less?" He must now "think like a machine".

In a different scenario, a person might be asked how a Ford automobile will respond on a race track. To that question, he perhaps can give reliable answers. But then they change to a Chevy without telling him. Suddenly he is giving the wrong answers. Yet despite how obvious that scenario is, the tester/experimenter is likely to conclude that the only way to test a subject is to use Chevies or alter automobile types randomly because his prior test has shown that the subject doesn't really have the ability to predict automobile responses on race tracks.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Gain is obtained by giving a lot and keeping a little.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 18585
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Gobbo » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:09 pm

So there is a study I am trying to find. It's this one:

The blank card test: this double-blind study proved that all humans are capable of basic precognition. In the test the participants would turn over blank cards to reveal either a serene image, or a disturbing one. The test showed, conclusively, that before the disturbing ones were turned over the person's heart rate and brain function would coincide with what would happen if they had seen it normally, before they could actually see the card. In other words the mind know what was coming, and was already ready.


It seems to have disappeared, but likely I just cannot find the right keywords. If anyone has seen this study, link it plz.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Wobbly » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:27 pm

http://www.dbem.ws/FeelingFuture.pdf

Not the study, but similar. Tests for precognition and other phenomenon using several different methodologies.

-edit-

If Link doesn't work, Google:

    Feeling the future cornell
First result
Last edited by Wobbly on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Wobbly » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:34 pm

Google:
    Electrodermal Presentiments of Future Emotions
First result is the study you described.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:37 pm

Haha..

Near the end of her encounter with the White Queen, Alice protests that “one can’t believe
impossible things,” a sentiment with which the 34% of academic psychologists who believe psi
to be impossible would surely agree. The White Queen famously retorted, “I daresay you haven’t
had much practice. When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes
I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast” (Carroll, 2006, p. 166).

Unlike the White Queen, I do not advocate believing impossible things. But perhaps this
article will prompt the other 66% of academic psychologists to raise their posterior probabilities
of believing at least one anomalous thing before breakfast.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Gain is obtained by giving a lot and keeping a little.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 18585
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Gobbo » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:26 pm

Blurry wrote:Don't mind Gobbo, you guys. If you read through some of his old posts you'll see that, to his own mind, he is NEVER wrong.

Yeah, he's one of those.

And you know what's shitty about it? He doesn't realize that once people realize this about him they are turned off of what he is going to say before he even says it. What's the point in even listening to someone who thinks he's never wrong? There is no discussion to be had, just a lecture, and lectures are boring.



Some people are just wrong way less than others, or on different orders of significance. The types of things I make mistakes on are stupid details that don't matter.

I'm like a forerunner, out there ahead of the pack, scouting stuff out. I was given certain tools for that.

And I am definitely on my own.

Being right sucks.


And the bolded part of your signature.

Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent.

Is a non-sequitur because being true to yourself is originality.
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Dan~ » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:58 am

Authority Figure wrote:Some interesting experiments which prove the existence of psychic phenomenon:

1. The dog owner test: this double-blind study proved that dogs know when their owners -decide- to come home. Not the act of getting into the car, train, etc, but the moment the decision is made in the human's mind, the dog responds. This was done a couple times, actually. Sheldrake championed this one, if I remember correctly.

2. The blank card test: this double-blind study proved that all humans are capable of basic precognition. In the test the participants would turn over blank cards to reveal either a serene image, or a disturbing one. The test showed, conclusively, that before the disturbing ones were turned over the person's heart rate and brain function would coincide with what would happen if they had seen it normally, before they could actually see the card. In other words the mind know what was coming, and was already ready.

I'm at work and going from my memory. I will describe more conclusive tests as they come to me.


I may have already told you about this, but when I tried some weed and was resting closing my eyes, I saw all these mandalas and colidascopes of colors. Then I saw a network of dogs all connected to each other. Endless amounts of dog spirits connected to humans and sending energy into them trying to help them be spiritually more healthy and better.

It was so selfless that I had some sort of doubt feelings about its reality. I'm usedto a system where life has to not spend its time giving and helping, it needs to hoard resources and avoid constant danger.

I know dogs have some psychic gifts. But they also have an over mind and networks set up too.

I call them rows when I see a vast or never ending aray of beings.

I've seen angel networks too, but that was the first time i seen a row of dog spirits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLz1GSkJeks
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Re: Latent Psychic Ability in the Religious, and Athiest

Postby Dan~ » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:14 am

Authority Figure wrote:I understand it, I think, well enough for someone in my position.

I'm just trying to help others to understand it. Early on in my history at this site I had this battle charge of 'Screw the Peer Reviewed System!' cause for a long time psychic ability was obviously real, but they would go on saying it wasn't.

Now I understand there is plenty of evidence out there. I'm going to talk, even if it is to myself, about some of that evidence. I find this stuff extremely interesting. I understand it is scary to some, but I think in the long run we should embrace things like this, as, imo, it is the future of mankind.



3. The 'You're Being Watched' Study. In this study they had participants hooked up to a machine which measures the electric changes on the surface of the human body. What they found is that when a person is being watched by another person, the body can feel it. They took this test one step further and had participants sits in a room with a camera, and then have someone else watch them, from another room, through the camera. Upon being watched, the skin would still register distinct changes which only happened while being watched. They even extrapolated this study one step further, discussing the sometimes odd behavior of celebrities who would feel this electric change near-constantly depending on their level of fame. Perhaps this minute 'feeling' can actually be addictive.


When preforming an evocation, a spirit can tell when you are looking at their seal, or when you are wanting to do something to or with them.

When we look at something, we align with it. This can be felt, since the energy syncs. It is possible to develop stealth and not be noticed, but humans can't usually get that level of stealth.

If we pray, for example, the spirits can sense which person we are intending to pray to.

Consciousness surrounds space and life. It effects it. If we think about someone really hard, we get to know about them better subliminally, even if we aren't directly talking with them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLz1GSkJeks
I truly believe that skunks are one of the best animals on earth.
Stop being wrong about stuff. ~Gobbo.
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