Insurrection in Europe, Deflation Needed!

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/10/going-apeshit.html

Why did the protests in Rome turn violent ? because Italy is worse off than Greece because it has:

1. A huge UNPERCEIVED and people are UNAWARE of it, housing bubble with prices of rents (1,000 euros a month) to salary (800 euros a month) in the Major Cities more than EVEN ONE! And prices (300,000 euros for 50 sqm or 700 sqft house) to salaries (10,000 euros a year) 30 to 1. Talk about “affordability”!;

2. Unemployment, no hope of work at all, the country is going down the toilet fast, nothing left to do for millions of young kids, they will just smash the country up;

3. A huge dominant majority of reactionary, right wing voters repressing any kind of change and completely supporting Berlusconi because they desperately want to protect their Real Estate Prices no matter what;

4. No money left for anything, huge corruption, no hope for any possible improvement in any possible area;

Hence, the country will go down the toilet and explode (and watch out when it does because they have 1,500 billion dollars of debt that won’t be paid back to anyone anymore, good luck with that).

A lot of their problems seem similar to what is happening in the USA.

The solution would be:

1. Cheap Rents (not more than 200 dollars a month for 80 sqm or 1,200 sq ft house);

2. The government hires 5 million kids in Research and Development and Science, even just to do nothing at all, just give them a free salary of 800 dollars a month;

3. Huge public-private projects, skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, and such.

AMEN.

And what is really needed is a huge worldwide economic deflation, all prices of all goods should go way, way down. Rents 200 dollars a month, salaries 800 dollars, free health care and college, and cheap everything, deflation is the only way to go, deflate, deflate, low prices ever lower prices of all! I saw the assets of the major companies valued at thousands of billions of dollars and such, those numbers are made up, fake, cannot correspond to reality, there is no way that Fannie May has 3,000 billion dollars in assets, it is pretend money, it cannot correspond to real exchanges and jobs, it would be equivalent to 30 million jobs at 10,000 dollars a year for ten years, no way that that potential of exchange is really in the system, no way jose, erase all the fairy tale numbers, GET REAL!

There is the potential for a lot of fairy tale, “service economy”, “Information Workers” like exchanges (just like blogs and facebook and cell phone chat and meetings and such) but most of these in the long run won’t put food on the table anymore, most will reveal their optional, not necessary nature, and that is why we need the government to hire millions and give them a free salary even to just do nothing at all (and cheap rents).

Your solutions don’t make sense. People don’t have enough money so RAISE THE TAXES ON EVERYONE SO WE CAN GO TO MARS! There’s a reason why most of your threads are just you preaching to yourself.

You don’t have to raise the taxes, just give the trillions of dollars the Federal Reserve constantly prints to new workers instead of the banks and already super rich, hand them out to millions of new workers that the government (and only the government can hire since a private person hiring would require them to “produce” or “work” or “be productive”, all things that are no longer necessary or operating anymore, obsolete since a Technological Economy has made most work obsolete, not needed, has optimized and increased labor productivity up to the point that you need very few people to do the real work and all of that Automatic Production, Automatic For The People can support many others just doing pretend work or even simply, bluntly and proudly “Nothing At All”) decides to hire to do Nothing At All and also for Research and Development and Science and to build Skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars.

We need more government, not less, we need the government to hire and step up to solve the problems, not the market and the private enterprise and corporations since they cannot solve these problems, only an abstract, all powerful government (you may call it socialist) can do the trick.

And anyways, we need more taxes, ever more and higher taxes as taxes are for the common good, for the general society, it is the only mechanism available to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor, the wealthy won’t give it out by themselves, they must be forced by the government and the only way is by taxing them, tax them hugely, tax them heavily and tax all, ever more taxes and ever more millions hired by the government. That is my solution. Do you have any better idea ?

Probably not, I am the only one who has a concrete easy to follow and understand solution, I don’t hide my solution beyond abstractions and indirections that don’t mean anything at all like “more education” or “more competition” or “more small businesses” since all of those fluff solutions really simply mean, we won’t do anything at all, just leave everything as it is (as it is in favor of the rich only).

Jesus christ, your OP says “DEFLATION NEEDED” but your solution involves deliberate inflation. You’re clueless.

There would be no inflation in my solution because deflation would follow the low salaries the government pays forcing all goods to cost appropriately, the salary is 800 dollars a month, dude, no inflation here, only deflation big time.

As awesome as your ideas are I think I might have an even better idea.

The government should just give each person ONE MILLION DOLLARS each, then they should pass laws that make rent about $5 a week and give everyone free food and top notch health care.

But seriously … you have written over 1000 posts on a philosophy forum, and these are your ideas of solutions ?

Spend some time more time researching and learning how reality works. Here is a good starting point … mises.org/.

I second the first sentence, but as for the second sentence…

I DOUBLE SECOND THAT! I had no idea you were into the austrian shit agsy.

Haha, well of course I am.

But seriously I’m not sure if I can continue on this forum … I mean I’m having some great laughs reading some of the posts but then I start fearing for the future of humanity if this is the level of ‘thought’ on a philosophy forum…

The philosophy section seems a bit more rational at least…

Do you think that there is an “External Reality” that is working objectively, independently from us, our mind, our models, how we decompose and define its entities ? Especially in issues like “Economics”, there is no “Reality”, it is a man made construction, an ideology, an invention, a program that people follow, as in “Man is the Infinitely Programmable Machine”. The economy works by Design, according to how someone decided it should be Designed, according to a set of arbitrary rules of interaction and engagement that achieved a consensus through “Brainwashing”, aka “Programming People to Look at Things and Interact in a Predetermined Fashion, Just Because”, for no deeper reason than the dominating powers relationship (and therefore ideological and psychological relationships) that are operating and that has achieved the maximum consensus through Mass Media and Education (as a device to brainwash people), it is a totally programmable system, it can be run according to any rules, any interactions, any definitions none of which is better or superior to any other, etc.

Today most people are brainwashed with a fairy tale construction of economy based on “The Invisible Hand of the Market” and other such BS, there is no invisible hand, there are no indirect mechanism such as “less taxes create jobs”, “new jobs will be created by small businesses”, they are all false, make believe causes and effects that are very convenient to use by the dominating class against the working classes, read all my past posts.

I think we can use a good mixed system, both private and public, so when people want to think that they are Superstars and Heros developing new breakthrough companies and technologies (it is all mostly a make believe thing, all those novelties are already know, mostly a hype machine) give them the venture capital and set them up in Silicon Valley, but for all the other millions, give them Free Salaries, Cheap Rents, make them proudly do “Nothing At All”, build Rockets to Mars, Research and Development and build Skyscrapers and such.

Now is a moment when the government has to hire millions to kick start it up again, and in a sense, to save the Capitalist Economy from itself, to save it from being a “Victim of its Own Success”, from being too extreme and optimizing too many jobs away.

Only the government can hire since a private person hiring would require them to “produce” or “work” or “be productive”, all things that are no longer necessary or operating anymore, obsolete since a Technological Economy has made most work obsolete, not needed, has optimized and increased labor productivity up to the point that you need very few people to do the real work and all of that Automatic Production, Automatic For The People can support many others just doing pretend work or even simply, bluntly and proudly “Nothing At All”.

And anyways, we need more taxes, ever more and higher taxes as taxes are for the common good, for the general society, it is the only mechanism available to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor, the wealthy won’t give it out by themselves, they must be forced by the government and the only way is by taxing them, tax them hugely, tax them heavily and tax all, ever more taxes and ever more millions hired by the government. That is my solution. Do you have any better idea ?

Nameta apparently thinks resources are infinite and the government just magically has all this stuff to give away, and they’re keeping it from us. Sorry to break the news to ya, but it’s not quite like that.

No, it is People, Property Owners, but especially Corporations with their hugely inflated Market Value and Assets Value that think they are hugely Richer than what they are. It is the necessity to maintain such a hugely inflated Assets Value marking that corporations and even so many private citizens have that inflated Real Estate values way out of proportion worldwide. And people also want hugely inflated salaries and such, such as doctors in the USA making 300,000 dollars a year, totally insane amount of money, they should not make more than 80,000 dollars a year tops, and the same with all things Health Care and College and you name it. Worldwide salaries are now standard: from about 100 to 800 dollars a month, this is what salaries should be for most people in all countries, except for some really talented superstars (and they do not number in the tens millions worldwide, maybe a few million tops).

As I said, I saw the assets of the major companies valued at thousands of billions of dollars and such, those numbers are made up, fake, cannot correspond to reality, there is no way that Fannie May has 3,000 billion dollars in assets, it is pretend money, it cannot correspond to real exchanges and jobs, it would be equivalent to 30 million jobs at 10,000 dollars a year for ten years, no way that that potential of exchange is really in the system, no way jose, erase all the fairy tale numbers, GET REAL!

Formula: present a really simplistic world-view and then defend it by making a cluster-fuck post full of irrelevant gibberish to confuse anybody who disagrees.

at this point it would be worthwhile to analyze this post by flanneljesus----what worldview is being presented?..how are you confused fj?

clearly the worldview that resources are infinite, it’s actually possible to just give people free stuff all the time, it’s useful to employ everyone in NASA, etc. look at his first post turtle, it’s all right there.

how are you confused fj?

well, i’m not really confused. i just meant that was his apparent goal.

nameta9 was your goal to confuse us?

It took me a lot of time to figure this all out, I may even be completely wrong, who cares, it is a kind of puny hobby I have, I could care less about this or anything. But the point is, there are some really deep contradictions operating, there is something hugely wrong in all of the models, proposals, ideas that have been flying around in the last years about the “Economy”, “Growth”, “Competition”, “Innovation”, “Productivity”, you name it, and also, all of the formulas the FED and BCE and governments propose to “solve the problems” seem way off bat (fire government workers (while the exact opposite should be done, hire government workers by the millions just to give them a salary), cut services, save money here and there, etc.). I see these large scale trends operating more than anything else and determining most of the problems:

1. Technological Economy eliminating jobs faster than replacing them no matter what (Optimizations, Robots, Internet, Innovations, you name it, third world labor at 100 dollars a month, etc.) and no one has any answers or even barely recognizes this;

2. Huge Real Estate Inflation worldwide and the entire worldwide economy paying heavily for it and will keep on paying heavily for it for years to come (JAPAN anyone ? and CHINA is producing an even crazier Bubble building millions of homes that are way out of reach of their puny salaries, go figure);

3. The entire idea of “Jobs” and “Creating Jobs” is flawed because most jobs are an “Option” a “Service” an aesthetical choice, it is all based on fluff, non necessities, make believe things, now how on earth are jobs supposed to be created if they are just fun and games ?

The corporations operate in a separate circuit compared to society as a whole, they are correct in firing people, outsourcing, whatever and the more they fire people the better, who cares, their goal is make a profit, but the greater society finds itself with more and more idle people, what to do ?

So the only logical solution to all of this is Cheap Rents, All The Governments Worldwide hire tens of Millions of people to do bluntly and proudly “Nothing At All”, but also, since you have such a huge Excess Productive capacity at hands with millions upon millions of people available, Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, you name it, Bus systems, Research and Development, etc. The system has so much Excess Productive Capacity that it can build millions of skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars and also hire millions of people to do “Nothing At All” and just look out of the windows in all of the Skyscraper Offices.

nameta9----are you playing with me?