## Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-gives.html

Please scroll over the following block of text.

Every configuration of bits (complete environment a Man Brain obtains and is instantaneously experiencing from a set of signals from its sense organs (and also the complete set of internal sensations, and all of the simultaneous comparisons operating in parallel with its memory and all the rest)) can transit, navigate, follow a path to any other possible configuration no matter how far away, different, completely different according to how it randomly is pushed there by a mix of external forces and internal will power forces, by a path of new events and configurations setting the stage for another new configuration and event set and paths and so on. Of course the intermediate steps to go from configuration A (trip in BRAZIL ? or more concretely walking down some random street in BRAZIL) to configuration M (a small visit to the local cemetery in NJ ?) may be many separate steps, maybe 10 maybe a trillion or maybe even just one, and the path may be completely random intermediate configurations or it could be, as we usually expect a smooth transition from one situation to the next according to logic, cause and effect and the laws of physics: but there can be trillions of paths that go from point A to point M, and for any point A and any point M there are trillions of possible paths. But we use our Will Power to try to guide the trip, the transformation, the travel from A to M, and we are constrained by the laws of physics that limit which paths can be taken, and at what speed, etc.

But since there is a path that can bring you from any configuration to any other no matter how far out and improbable, a new modified Man Brain knows that there is a path that can bring you from any configuration to any other, so then it simply assigns the configuration it wants on the fly without following any paths like we must follow because we are constrained by our body, and the laws of physics and the contrasting set of other will powers and forces interdicting our desire to reach a given configuration. Or it may desire to follow a very quirky random path visiting many intermediate configurations that furnish a very random set of experiences and sensations, or even a smooth path, and anything else, and it may decide to make some will powers oppose it (but may force itself to always win the confrontation ? or does it want to play the guessing game ? or does it want to see if it can win by itself and accepts any new paths that are imposed because it chose to play closer to how our reality works ?). Of course this modified brain must be carefully designed with a very precise simulator of reality and maybe it can be done in a few decades, but then again does it matter how precise the information set is when all you really want is an experience ? and so the precision can be also very low but the Information Relationship creating the equivalent Experience is just enough for that Man Brain to have exactly the experience it wants, especially when you modify the variable C (of being convinced that something is real) in the mental computer program from our everyday 70 % to 95 % even if a set of signals are totally false (and maybe 100 % unrelated ?, an experience that is independent of the set of signals representing it ? hmm..).

Like when one thinks that a set of behaviors and actions and activities and choices mean so many different things (other people performing them or yourself or a group or an interaction between so many people performing them, etc. cross information groups are communicating to each other, etc.) when they are all disjoint, or you are completely misunderstanding what they mean (but the information itself may misunderstand itself and so on in an infinite recursion. Regrets, self torture ? always and ever (never ?), you will always have a deeper and deeper guilt complex and you will never be ok, oh you should have done this or that, oh what a mistake, just that one decision could have changed everything, oh, how I want to go back to that one decision point or action point or behavior in that circumstance (but as Buddhism teaches, you may go back change your path only to get into a worse path and even worse and more regretful and even more guilt complex plagued reality, etc.) and more importantly the idea of having made a mistake in the past implies that there is an external reality operating: nothing further from the truth, reality is just an instantaneous configuration of bits with our memory of the past conditioning, falsifying and inhibiting (opposing resistance to) the possible new configurations that could be activated, memory as an interdiction towards new configurations of bits), but maybe all is always misunderstanding all, all signals falsify and create a fake language and narrative that means something completely different and again even that meaning becomes another narrative meaning something completely different forever until you get lost forever...

Wow, what a boatload of drivel, trype and self delusion...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://www.counter-currents.com/2012/01 ... more-22636

"Thus bankers, by loaning out the money they create for nothing, gain a mortgage on future production of real world goods and services."

Or are trying to force the world to produce many more goods and services than the world needs or can even absorb, are trying to force and make believe the economy is much richer than it is, but especially, much richer than it can possibly be structurally. In order to compensate the trillions and trillions of dollars of debt and fake money the banks created you would need so much real work and goods and services that there is no way that is is realistically possible.

Add in optimizations and the Technological Economy killing jobs structurally and you have a recipe for insanity and disaster.

Another reason why the only solution is free salaries and homes: since the banks created free money, then they must distribute all the free money, freely, since the machine is crashing, is a logical contradiction, can't work any other way any more.
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Like when you think someone did something for a given reason while the reason was completely different or there was no reason at all. Constant misunderstandings, constant guessing games, you would never have imagined the real reason for him doing that, etc. Always a surprise, and do "real reasons" even exist ? aren't all reasons hiding other reasons and new reasons and aren't the reason being invented on the spot, or are some been going on for decades ? etc. I forgot what I forgot but remembered what I forgot but forgot if I remembered what I forgot to remember.
And everyone thinks that there are all different reasons for the same things, but everything is hiding everything, no synchronization here, everything a total mismatch, an embarrassing mismatch and total misunderstanding of all with all ?

And when you see an item, and then see it slightly differently again, and see it yet differently again in a never ending change of perception, ideas or reason ? all change, vague, and rock solid clear and true...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Please scroll over the following block of text. But please waste your time boys and girls you all got your "work" cut out for you today...study it all carefully, JHK will test you on it...

And just one bit, one small mistake, one change in perception and the other person can be digitally put in a category, can be extremely simplified as good or bad, no turning back, nothing you did in the past will ever change the final judgment, that subtle phase transition that that one bit mistake provoked, etc.

As in when you see another person and that person remains a mystery that kind of ticks you off until he finally opens his mouth and says something and you can finally possibly classify or determine or define what and where in the never ending sea of logical threads he stands, it is comforting to know that you can know where the person is in the "Debate Space", in the "Information Space"; the space of possible configurations. But it is cool to see so many anonymous thugs in large cities, all mystery, not talking to you or not saying anything, and that is why you feel lost and threatened and so on. A total mystery until some cue, any clue is hinted so that you try to guess what is going on his mind...

Like when you think about some very complex issue, situation for years and plan and consider and then finally when you reach a decision point you just do something random and throw away years of pondering and meditation and planning. Like when you wanted that car for years, but then, just when you can have it, or just because, from one second to the next, you don't want it anymore, you completely forget your obsession, nay, you hate it you torture yourself for having "wasted so much time" on that object of desire, and so forth.

All vague, all change, all weird, no stability here, all odd actions and reactions, always changing perceptions, radical changes in a moment, and the same old "what was I thinking ?" game, when you were never thinking anything because there is no thinking to do, we are just a chain reaction fooling itself into thinking that "it has control". Constant regrets and torments for an imagined future when there is no future, not even imagined, only wild random pure chance that not even the laws of physics and god himself know what is going on.

Like when you want to be in another person's shoes, you imagine that his condition is so much better when in all truth, he is probably even more unhappy then yourself, but you would never know, you just project what you imagine his advantage is in your fantasizing. Like when you want something, but what you really want is the memory of something, so that you can confirm that you had that something (a trip to BRAZIL for example) so you can think that you have achieved, you have obtained what your will power wanted, you want that chunk of memory confirming reality, and better if confirmed by other independent people, but mostly you need a memory confirmation to activate the circuit that has "I am happy", I did this", or "I have had this", or "I have this", and so on. As if there is something "keeping score", as if the score will last and is even important. Nothing and no one is keeping score, scores don't exist, numbers don't exist, all is a ghost. But we delimit all events within time and by making events pass time we always win and achieve: the goal is to pass time, find ways to be unaware of time, else if you were aware of every second, each second would become longer and longer and we would live an eternity and get bored to death.

why does a chunk of matter need to know what another chunk of matter is feeling or doing, why do we need to be confirmed, why are we always monitoring how much pain/pleasure another chunk of matter is obtaining, why do we talk and communicate to another independent will power chunked of matter ? to be sure that something has something in common with us ? to feel part of ? but part of what ? part of our own imagination ? our envy ? jealousy, or what ? A chunk of matter wants other chunks to be similar to itself so as to feel confirmed and comfortable and defined, hinged upon something solid, so all the talk, communication, importance of cell phones and Internet, you name it.

It all goes back to the problem of absolutes and relatives, we want absolutes but the Universe is all relative, hence undefined, not clear, vague, dangerous, iffy, at all times, and our very structure of mind, our very will power, the very structure of Matter and Mass Energy is trying to guess itself, is playing jokes on itself, is playing an obscene guessing game with itself, and always guessing wrong, always being dead wrong on everything. Matter is always telling lies to itself because only lies exist in the Universe, it is impossible to tell itself anything else...

Wow, what a boatload of drivel, trype and self delusion...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-gives.html

Like p*rn, interesting to see the image to instinct converter, why it is so intriguing, maybe because it activates the circuit in between parallel to serial, parallel sense organ inputs associated to a sequential logical path (along with morality, rules, laws, other emotions/feelings whatever). So do we "fall in love" with our instinct, with the image of the pretty, or with ourselves, are we intrigued by how instinct is captured by picture, or something around there. And does a pretty face that talks associate and denote and indirection and symbol to something else ? is the indirections adding up, is everything mixed, along with will power challenges and games, a never ending recursion of guessing games, never to be sure of any outcome not even after 100 years (being sure brings boredom). Why women must be stupid (or pretend to be ?)...

Like every moment everything must be reconstructed from scratch, every new configuration of bits (in mind and in external reality ?) must be reproduced, a completely new creation, a new big bang, every instant a new universe, who knows what is next...

On the variable C (being convinced of the reality of something variable)

From:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=174981

"Therefore no stretching of space or black hole travels are necessary to travel in time, only the creation of the equivalent information relationships. It is just as real, as real isn't defined, real is just how much you are convinced that it is real and since you can never be convinced 100 % of something and not even 0 %, the variable C (convinced) is a number greater than zero and less than 100, then any number is equivalent and equally true."

"So there, give me my nobel prize. C, "the degree of being convinced variable" is the real secret, this variable defines reality, you can change it, just assign it, it is done and true. I went to 1950 NJ, and then to 2400 Mars, and they told me this, that is how I learned it. You can also travel in space, as all locations are just a different configuration, so even the speed of light is exceeded. Now go to the other galaxy and come back, and go to 5 trillion years in the past and future, have fun."
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

What is the next action reaction between two people encountering, it is the quirk sum of what they remembered of the person, or what they imagine; sometimes a person generates always the same reactions and activates always the same circuits, sometimes it is completely random, sometimes a person is just a standard set of memorized reactions having a standard meaning and region of interaction, a given delimited interaction space only for that person.

It will be discovered that the real nature of the universe is purely metaphysical: like how will the universe end, what is its large scale structure ? cyclical or just a big bang and then it withers away ? So what difference does it make ? a set of frequencies that interact and match and mismatch to create reality then nothing else.

So either picture, you end up looking at the whole only metaphysically, nothing else you can do with it, but meditate it from a metaphysical point of view, which mean simply what it means to "us", that is this very arbitrary, random and fluke design of Man Brain...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Better Nothing or Something ? Better Nothing. Is this all there is to life ? Yes, limit your desires, limit life to a few bits, you will be happier, kill thoughts and memory. Amen.

Can we control what we think ? (and why we ? the generalized chunks of matter that resemble my man brain ? people are all chunks of matter in this philosophy), no we are driven by random, the mind can't control what it thinks. Self delusion, lie to yourself, and yet the more you lie to yourself and you know it is lying, the more you delude yourself and feel rage and angry and a sore loser and a pissed of loser, and a failure (this is the new normal) the truer that lie becomes, the more valid, reality is directly proportional to the self delusion, to the intensity of the lie: you can't do anything else but lie to yourself always. If you can't get from combination of bits A to C, then associate (a one to one correspondence) that combination to one where you can perform the previously impossible path ( a simpler path F to Y , a projection, a mkae believe, but then you may not ever be able to do the simpler F to Y, but the original A to C and you hose yourself again, go figure) making believe that it is A to C.

And what reaction can you expect from the encounter with another person (chunked out matter carved into a man brain) ? any reaction, the reaction is unknown not only to that other person, but also your own, you may become indifferent or angry or run away or anything, the other person doesn't know what reaction to have as all is always a test, a guess, combinations of bits in brains colliding and not knowing at all what the resulting new combinations will be.

But most likely, near indifference, nothing at all, very little excitement or change, just boredom, no really new thing to guess here. Encounters are mostly huge letdowns because our expectations are always too high maintenance, we are excess expectations aside from excess capacity from the outset. Be letdown, accept total letdown and free your mind. And many people create simply repetitive patterns in their everyday encouters, simplify life, a comforting repetition where everything is perfectly planned, but any slight change may become allarming a threat ?

And notice how words (or thought paths, pictures, behaviors, whatever) become alive, sometimes as you talk about things, the words become more and more real strangely, they become associated with deeper past feelings/emotions/pain/pleasures even though they are independent and probably have nothing to do with anything at all. That is why we can write the same drivel over and over again and it always looks new, even if it is exactly the same, it is always 100 % new because our man brain and universe has transitioned into a slightly new combination of bits creating a 100 % new creation, new big bang, new universe, infinitely different from anything before, completely new feelings, go for it man, it is all false, man, repeat.
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

There is a large impedance mismatch (use complex words, make the concepts vague, make it fancy and hard to understand so that it looks deeper than what it really is) between what we expect, how we imagine something to play it (and how the other person, group or machine or whatever imagines and plans how something will play out) and what really happens on the ground: what happens is always random, a fluke, you would never have expected that outcome, etc.

That is cool,our fantasizing is always just theory and pretty pictures, reality bites back, shows us who the boss is, contradicts us for fun, and all our expectations and plans and what we hope is thrown down the toilet where it belongs: so go on, plan something new, it will never play out like you expect, and even if it did, you would keep on planning new games until you lose, since what we really are all after is the loss, we want to mourn, we want to complain, we want to be unhappy as that defines our steady state (and so we have an excuse to fight back and beat someone up, as an imaginary detached abstract will power opposed our desires) it will never be ok, even if you won all everyday for a trillion years, the last second, the very last one and only loss will cancel all your wins because reality is simply the very present instantaneous configuration of bits and what it means, etc.

Life is not only not worth analyzing, it is not worth living, we must change how Matter undergoes Experience by changing the Observer, the design of the observer, shove it down the toilet and use the very toilet as a new brain, as in brainium, all could be a potential brain....

TOBOR AN APE
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-g ... ent-108055

Why was I so happy when I was a little boy (and why should anyone give a sh*t ?) ? I could draw my cars and play in the backyard in the suburbs while mommy cooked, I could imagine my science fiction world (back then science was the future, now it is a sin) and I always played around with fake new brains decoding the world in wild fun ways, colorful ways even when I was five years old, go figure. And no one wanted to play with me, they didn't like my games. And I didn't like other people, they all sucked for me and still do, why on earth are they different from me ?!?! why and how is this even possible ?!?!? how I hate all their guts and the world's gut for being not how I want it!!! go figure...

What happend along the way ? how did I become this sad, sad huge piece of turd ? how did I degrade in time ? who knows...eat, drink and be merry, life is a bitch and god doesn't exist...

"Overpopulation and balkanization lowers the quality of life.

========================

This is another CFN "truism" that never gets challenged. I am here to challenge it. "

That should have been eat, drink and be merry, life is a bitch and then you die...

I have been always challenging the overpopulation myth, for me we can easily handle thousands of trillions of new skyscraper builders and oldsmobile builders...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-gives.html

6:52 to wagelbr:

"I agree that there needs to be a national income, as even Nixon and Milton Friedman agreed in the 70s."

God punishes you by making your dreams come true. You don't know what you are wishing for.

You never know how things could play out even if you did all I wanted. it could turn into a hell anyways, everything is unpredictable.

I think that that would be the wrong way to do it: you just can't bluntly say we will give out free money: you must first create large projects and goals most of the society would approve of, a large mass transit (public - private ?) BUS system that could involve alot of different companies, people, internet, software whatever. Next a large buildings program creating many different kinds of new building all over the USA, construction is good, it increase the amount of wealth in a society by lowering the cost of a basic need, houses and real estate and space for offices, etc. Next, fire the imagination of the young, start a goal of Man on Mars by 2020, you get the idea. Next set up a government (and state and local run) health care system that has most of the basics, it may not be top notch but should do most of the job people need, if you want better, more etc. good, pay for your own private health care, nothing wrong with that, etc.

And after, in the background, silently, without anyone noticing it start a very gradual different kind of welfare system where cheap health care and a small free salary and cheap rents can be gradually introduced.

Will it ever happen ? NO. Why ? because people are too conflictual, ideological, right against left, stereotyping everything, simplifying everything...

1:32 To BeanBill:

"my is that we have created way too much debt. Debt should only be created to increase productivity, not to consume more goods and services."

But what is money if not more exchanges of goods and services ? So you are dead wrong, debts actually means the need to consume ever more goods and services, so much more that there is no way that saturated western economies can do it anymore as they are all full of all of this BS.

What is productivity ? oh, you mean producing the same with fewer workers ? finding ways to produce more with less inputs ? right ? and that means somewhere down the line fewer jobs. I don't remember how many times I heard this BS of "productivity" (which no one really knows what it is and how to define it, because it is one of those abstract words that are supposed to justify firing people, restructuring and all in the name of some metaphysical entity that is undefined or defined as anything you want it to be). It really simply means increasing profits by using fewer workers, end of story.

I am sick and tired of people repeating all of the Standard Economic ideology that means nothing, is undefined, no one knows what they are talking about, there is no clear cut concrete example and understanding of how these words really map onto real day to day life etc. the same old "Productivity", "Innovation", "Startup", "Small Businesses", "Competition", "More Education", "New Skill Sets", you name it BS that hasn't provided anything to anyone in years...except huge profits to the 1 %.

God punishes you by making your dreams come true.
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Please, Scroll over the following blocks of text.

slut says:

"You ask: *What happened along the way? How did I become this sad, sad huge piece of turd?*

I’ll take a stab at it... you are heavily afflicted with Asperger's Syndrome..."

No, I think it is more like "Obsessive Compulsive" forcing me to write this huge pile of BS (along with other broken gears in the Man Brain...); but anyways, that is the point, who defines "Normal" ? even if a thousand trillion people (point like chunks of matter spatially and temporally separated, but acting as mostly one vague entity of sets of thought paths, communication channels between, inside, and in between the inside and outside the points, interacting with other more invariant and will power free chunks of matters (the buildings, mountains cars...), amongst (and inside each point like Observer and amongst the points, etc.)) all reach a consensus on what the normal set of patterns of behaviors and patterns of interaction between people are, who says that it has any value or worth outside what they ARBITRARILY DEFINED ? And then, as you see you go back to the modified brains problem, the absolutes and relatives problem: which brain design is the reference system, the ground state, the point zero upon which all other brains must be measured and compared to and defined ? which is reality and which is a test, a "fake brain" ? neither of the two different brain designs can declare themselves the absolute reference system, hence all is arbitrary, hence there is no "Normal".

And it is also very easy to define any behavior or pattern that is not within a statistical range of make believe and arbitrary patterns that a society, civilization but more correctly a tribe decided was the "norm" as a "sickness" needing to be "cured".

And very convenient for doctors and health care creeps making money by saying you are "autistic", you are "this" and you are "that", etc. and since you are outside of the statistical average you "must be cured" and pay me money for this.

And even more interesting is, when you see those very crazy people in crazy houses, those that have very different and frightening behaviors, how hard it is to look at them, how much a punch in the stomach those behaviors appear; they make you feel bad (and imagined "bad for them"?). But what is really going on is we are seeing a small glimpse of how very arbitrary the world is according to our definitions of normal brains, how all can change if the man brain is working differently, all of our security disintegrates, all of what we think is objective shows its subjective and variable face: once again there are no absolutes but only relatives.

A man brain is definitely the most artificial and less spontaneous contraption you can ever think of: as soon as you think and start to know other people think, and think like you or similar, you enter the infinite loop of I know you are thinking that you know that I am thinking that I know that you are thinking about this and that, and our interaction, and I can see through you partially, and I can partially guess or try to guess what you are trying to guess what I think, and I will act according to how I imagine you could judge me, knowing that the judgment could change in a jiffy if I do something that may be slightly wrong, but I can't know if it is wrong, since you may give me trick clues to make me make a mistake, and then make fun of me, but I can do the same, but then I can get confused and not be sure if the joke is on me, or you, or this or that and I can never really know where your thought paths are going and if there is an intersection with mine, if I can use you or you can use me, but then I do (or don't ?) want a dependency on you, but so do you, but then the next moment you are completely indifferent to me, or vice versa, I want to simply beat you up, or you want to me, but I want to condition you, but then I don't and you don't want to condition me, but you are conditioning me anyways and all we do does the exact opposite of what we thought we wanted, but we changed our minds, etc...

So given how fake and artificial a standard Man Brain is, any other design is just as real and maybe more authentic, less artificial, less problematic...

A deep infinite recursion of reciprocally conditioning imaginary minds (and even if they are not present as the internet shows, they can be thousands of miles away, invisible and not even existing) that become real in our mind because we know that there is some point in space and time where a real similar mind is operating...

Wow, what a blog hog I am ! That is not good manners now is it ? That is not good behavior ! Hey alexandra, slut, did you build me my trillions of skyscrapers and oldsmobile ninety eights ? why didn't you ? why did you disobey me ? please, pretty please build me what I demand...you whore get vlads black d*ldo and use it too, you horny bitch...Now crack open your skull, shove a jet engine in it, you will enter a new universe...

And notice how we can keep on writing this BS forever, the blocks of text never end, the nature of language is to be able to say similar things over and over and over again but seeming like they are saying slightly different things, that look always completely new, so strange, go figure...I hope, I really hope I run out of BS to post here, tell me it has all been said, all has been said, pretty please ?

TOBOR THE EIGHTH MAN
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-gives.html

Unemployment Solved !

If we get all 7 billion people in the world to read all of my posts all day long over and over again for a trillion years, well finally unemployment will have been licked, no unemployment here anymore, it has been achieved, an age old complex, intractable social - cultural - economic and political problem has finally been solved once and for all!

Finally, everyone in the world has a clear cut productive task for them, they finally have a clear cut goal, they can finally all work and achieve by my simple solution!

Wow, and people are always thinking, and examining, and trying to figure out, and we now have thousands upon thousands of blocks of text trying to explain the complexities of the economy, what is wrong, what must be done, who's fault it is, this and that, money, OWSers, tea party, Europe, JAPAN you name it.

When all along, the solution was staring right in everyone's eyes: the very blocks of texts themselves, just let everyone worldwide read them over and over again forever, for 8 hours a day and give them a free salary and cheap rent. It has finally been solved.
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

There is always one last idiotic concept that I forgot to say. Ah Shucks, when will it end ? There will always be one last concept that has not been said, why do the concepts never end ? please make them end, pretty please...

Like when we think of an item, person, situation, whatever and that thing becomes more important for us than it is for itself, like when we think of something and we actually become that something (don't we always become 100 % what we think ?). We think of item A and that item becomes more important for us than it would ever be for item A itself, nay, item A probably completely ignores itself, doesn't even know that it is the object of so much obsession and thought, would have never guessed. And why should another chunk of matter become important for a given chunk of matter ? why do chunks of matter want to be other chunks of matter, why to switch places ? because they imagine and construct a completely falsified fairy tale, greatly exaggerated on how "much better" the other chunk of matter is undergoing the phase transition of Matter to Experience. And isn't communication always a set of symbols targeting imaginary minds ? generalized imaginary potential actions and reactions (but totally unpredictable, not even for itself, not even the mind (or minds ?) itself can ever know what it will do!) according to how the neural circuits of a given mind has been programmed (throughout the personal history ?) as a reply to symbols...

And then, as soon as we think of anything, consciously, doesn't that anything become everything, don't we become exactly 100 % that item we are thinking about ? So strange, we become the contents of our thought, the Matter to Thought Converter, we become our concepts...but remember that I use "WE" only as a proxy to mean "I" or "IT" or "WHATEVER", since it is a simple device to represent the generalized contraption of similar thinking Man Brains.
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Nonlinearity is the name of the game: in all areas, endeavors, in all social relationships, in all things you may think, what you think is probably cause and effect, may be the exact opposite: for example the more I do A the more I will get B, when in all truth most probably the exact opposite is operating, the more you do A the farther away from B you get (especially when two dating people interact ?) (only maybe to have B immediately occur when you least expected it ?) and so with reciprocal minds interacting, what is stable becomes always more stable and excludes a large number of possible new behavior and interaction patterns; until maybe, when you least expect it, the linearity shows up all of a sudden (was it hiding behind a nonlinearity ? or were there many layers of linearities hiding behind non linearities and so forth ?) or a completely new nonlinearity may become operative, or maybe, no you were right, it is the same old, same old linearity operating, hard work brings more wealth for a society for example, and flowers will always buy a lady's heart and such huge BS.

But the entire endeavor of constantly explaining things, analyzing, trying to figure out the "laws that are operating", the "illuminism", "positivism", "reason will set you free" myth is based on determinism, thinking that reality can be understood, controlled, constrained within a set of laws and manipulated. Nothing further from the truth (always this same idiotic sentence, when all I say is always all wrong, go figure), everything is random, pure chance, a quirk unpredictable. Therefore all of the above is totally false and everything is completely predictable, crystal clear.

Everything is linear, predictable and if you predicted wrong you are simply a loser, a sore loser...

Ignore this troll, all the information he furnishes is false, all he says is wrong and the opposite of all what he says is true...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-gives.html

Please, Scroll over the following blocks of text. It is someone sh*ting on the Internet.

Good evening ph*ktards ! Excuse me if I suck too much, but I can't really do anything about it...

We need a content that activates constant thought paths, what we want is an excuse to think and try to figure out something, a plan, an imaginary work in progress as a never ending sequence of thoughts, calculations, logical situations and imaginary sets of causes and effects that will finally bring to a new thought conclusion, so as to think that a long series of past thought paths, past events, causes and events, past guesses, past interactions with things and people (or that "special" person ?) and mistakes, you name it has finally made us reach a concluding thought synthesis: a conclusion, a definite plan, etc. But alas, it will never be so, we will always make a mistake, we will never conclude the work in progress, we will never find the final solution as it depends on random quirks, other will powers that are just as lost as you, on random changes in other people's judgments and desires, everything changes constantly because nothing can be very stable, etc.

And we are actually in love exclusively with our thought paths, ever changing, ever needing to be activated, we need content, a start point and target point, if only in our mind, if only just fantasized to keep our mental computer program running, and as the mental computer program runs and runs it gives us a feeling of achieving, of being right, of producing, of getting closer to all of our solutions to problems (if they really are problems or imaginary problems ? and as the progam runs it activates slight good feelings, or slight satisfaction feelings ? all a very simple - complex machine our Man Brain), and as I said in the past, give them a content, they will be happy.

So we calculate a situation that depends on how another third party (or thing ? or group of persons ?) will react, should react, how we hope will react and all the intermediate steps and situations. And we try to imagine and calculate what inputs, what activities, what behaviors, what anything will bring forth a certain reaction, (but even the resulting reaction desired is never very clear, is not very clear cut, in other words, we don't really even know what we want and we are always changing our minds and ideas and judgments because we are essentially a crashed computer program with too many possible inputs and too many possible outputs not knowing which to choose or even if any should be chosen).

So what to do ? leave it to the free play of forces, don't push anything at all (or just slightly push it ?) wait to see if the action reaction will play out automatically (but I doubt it), and the golden rule: leave the reaction the job of executing some stimulation that brings forth a play of forces that may bring some desired result that you really are not even sure you want, or what you want.

Notice the level of abstraction. Jesus ph*king Christ and you slobs are insane enough to even read this ?!?!?!

AN APE
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Person A would like a set of actions reactions with or from person B, but person B (or A and B could be things, situations, groups whatever) lives within a set of fixed standard patterns of interactions and behaviors F, a comforting standard set of 3 or 4 base areas where all the inputs and messages are all within a certain limited range. Obviously the range can also be mapped to an imaginary other range, could be a proxy for another range (unconsciously or projections or fantasy in either or both the minds of A or/and B ?), but the basic range does not allow much wiggle room: so if person A tries to force the types of messages - behaviors - interactions within a typical standard behavior pattern in F, the result may be many and varied and could provoke many different impossible to predict outcomes, such as it may reinforce even more the standard behaviors of B and person A may be completely excluded hosed, eliminated and be assigned definitely a slot of out/loser/not part of/no interaction with anymore/sore loser etc. But it may also subtly provoke some slight opposite effect like interesting/slightly in/possible further interaction etc.

And all the intermediate and sideways and up/down/right/left more or less intense possible interactions can be activated, can be set forward, as a new play of forces in terms of actions reactions and further actions, a feedback loop (neither positive or negative, but in between ?) can commence even when you least expect it.

But more likely, the standard set of F is very stable and difficult to manipulate, change or interact with...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

A person (or thing ? or situation ? or group ?) is a pretty face + past behaviors + the history as related to you of that person (and you to that person) + that person's idea, ideology + the body, way of moving, talking, sound of voice + past conflicts, opposition to your will power + past fights win/loses as related to person (and you to that person) + past memories good/bad + expectations of future good/bad + future happiness, fun etc. and all those applied and mixed, etc. Now how can one of the properties overtake another property, condition another ? because they form a narrative, language, that only logic and thought evaluates constantly, no instinct here, no spontaneous here (only slightly, sometimes ?) but always short lived and imprisoned in an entire host of other influencing and conditioning properties that make the person and may make the person change completely, as in always being something different. Why does a set of thought paths the person shows off (when talking) have an effect on the judgment of the person ? is the person then simply a block of texts ? No, it is a mixture of that plus the image, etc. but all influencing all...and when we want a pretty block of text but get an ugly face ? we can compensate and confuse the properties ? and vice versa, a pretty face and ugly block of text ? and the same person according to the block of text or relationship, or experience can become good/bad, pretty/ugly, etc...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Please scroll over the following blocks of text. Please erase all of my posts from the Internet. Thank you.

Like you want A (a person, a thing, oh, you have a "crush" on A ? fantasizing ? images ? playing around ? instincts ? but rules ? morality ? embaressing ?, etc.) and the next moment you realize what a mistake, "what were you thinking ?", and maybe the other person "finds out" and may think and do and act and behave in anyway at all from the complete spectrum from hate, aggressive to pure love or whatever (and the thought paths activated between you and the other person, the reciprocal intentionalities path may be and go anywhere and may be put in the strangest and most unpredictable kinds of narratives, you would never have guessed, etc., meanings are switched, mistakes and misunderstandings abound and the real reason you or A does something is C, but then it becomes D and the original reasons are forgotten or become many different ones, ever changing, always a completely new narrative and so on like "first I felt sorry for him" then "I got angry and wanted to punish him" , "what is he crazy to think that or even imagine that?" and then switch back and forth and something else (jealous ? envy ? but I don't want to be jealous! internal conflicts) and a million new start point to targets and new reasons, new intentionalities changing the whole game) and you switch back and forth yes, no, (and the emotional roller coaster, but the intensity can be even very low level, just slightly, almost purely simply a logical, mental game, almost like playing chess, no emotion or feeling, or it can be extreme feeling, or anything in between and it can last a second, day, year or decades, and the "affair" can go on, mix, be wrong, right and switch all over the place forever) maybe and the other person switches too and the interactions are now random, a new stage from which to start a new mysterious cycle, but also, you can completely forget all what happened, or only remember a part, same for A, other thing(s), person(s) or group(s) or whatever(s) etc. And the same person could have a certain meaning in a certain context, and another in another context, and be part of a general image in yet another context (but wasn't that person this or that, and didn't I feel or think or anything with regards to that person according to that other context) and so on. And you can insert that person in a vague internal narrative that defines it (the person, as the person is an it, a thing after all, a chunk of matter) as a tag, a word, a placeholder implying some certain potential interactions (but maybe not, etc.), but then the narrative can change and the reciprocal narrative of the "other"(?) person can also be vague, change, jump all around, or being completely out of synchronization with yours or anyone's else.

And all of that drowning in a complex network of potential "intentionalities of Use", "Intentionalities of Behaviors, Interactions, Games", "Expectations, Expectations of Great (or shallow or no ?) Outcomes", "Expectations of Achieving and Happiness (?)", etc. And all of those networks creating complex, vague feedback loops, influencing each other, conditioning each other...

Or all may be all very simple you have a very complex and contorted view of all, while the other person, thing, object is simple to the extreme, but you will never know, or even if you know for you it may become even more complex, or maybe very simple or maybe you will forget all, etc.

All of that just to prove to you how our Man Brain, our thoughts, and logic and reasoning is the most artificial thing possible and all of the talk of nature is totally absurd as we are "Not Nature" to the extreme.

To Busty and similar posts:

"and gaze out across a landscape of rotting decay."

But you wouldn't know it was rotting and decay if you didn't remember how it was, but how it was was only temporary, man is the infinitely programmable machine that can get used to anything, and anything can become the new normal. Who said that our previous clean landscape was ever normal, or was supposed to be like that forever ? things change, all changes, and most changes are almost always for the worse, just suck it up, deal with it: the global economy, the increase of technology and the industrial revolution and all the forces that have jumped around and played with themselves in the last 200 to 300 years have been very unpredictable (and then, what is it with this idea of predicting things ? who ever thought things are predictable in the first place ? go figure), chaotic, and can and will go anywhere at all no matter how much we try to figure them out: that is why the Standard Economic Model is so useless, it is mostly just wishful thinking, always forcing the world to abide to an imaginary fairy tale model of the world that is not operating and probably has never operated (if only slightly for only 20 to 30 years from the 1960s to the 1990s but with a very specific level of technology, population, degree of globalization, in very specific countries, nay, specific regions of countries, etc.)

OK, true, I say way too much crap here and elsewhere but may I say this, seriously: no matter how many times we try to analyze, figure out, think it out, and no matter how many new things I say, or anyone else says, and no matter how much or how many times anything else, a fundamental constraint, limit, law is and will always be operating within the society, economy, you name it: the constraint of conflicting people over everything and anything, there is no way out of this, there will always be a boatload of contradictions, unresolved conflicts (just like my "unresolved internal conflicts"), contention of resources, fighting over resources or jobs or goods or status, political programs, you name it. Man is fight, and fight is the name of the game and all of the attempts at find some general rules, some objective rules that are correct and by which a society should govern itself are destined to fail or in the best case be partially successful, but always partially, no matter what.

And every time you may reach an equilibrium, a steady state (even after you say a million blocks of texts, you live through a million experiences thinking that now you know, now you are ok, now you will not make a mistake) you can be sure that something, anything, any random interaction will tip it off balance again, will start the game rolling all over again, and there you go again, start analyzing all over again, find solutions to "that new problem" (but mostly likely that same old problems that have been around forever), etc.

We are and man is and society is and economy is instability from the outset, permanent problems mode structurally, permanently unresolved, unstable, permanently without any solution.

Now, go on give me another block of texts explaining what is wrong and what we need to do.

Is that all there is to life ? yes that is all, it is a one transistor circuit, very simple, very nothing, very empty and bare and useless. Just juggle 2 or 3 bits and you will be happy. Free you mind, do not think of anything, it is all a "waste of time" (but isn't time always wasted from the outset ? isn't time a waste by definition ?).
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-gives.html

Myth of Services

Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal (and EU, JAPAN and USA) must grow their economy (to pay back impossible debts), they must generate more goods and "Services": now exactly what do they mean by services ? it seems that the fewer services "we need", the fewer pains in the a*s in terms of interactions, relationships with other entities THE BETTER, the richer we actually are, the easier life is; the simpler the things we need to get implies fewer services, not more services. Who on earth wants to deal with more services ? what exactly are they talking about ? Oh, I see, all of that huge flufforama, complexity of having a million different credit cards, a million different ways to pay for the same BS, all of those consultants to tell you about all of these new discoveries about the economy and "Productivity", all the new restaurant types and especially all of the new sicknesses and pills and psycho sicknesses, behavioral sicknesses, you name it sicknesses you can imagine so that there can be a million different new fangled kinds of pills, new doctor types, new "social worker" types, new specialized "nurses"(better if hot and horny!) types new health care center buildings and "services" and types, new exams, new tests, new [and put in any word of anything useless, not needed, just complicating your life, aggravating it, etc.] things.

And that is what must increase, we need more of all of that, get it ? We need to invent ever more things "we never knew we needed" to then count them in a computer and count how many of those there are and make the number of those things increase so the GDP of those failed and bankrupt countries start showing that they are "growing again" so that the financial jokers and poker game card players can trust that, if their economies grow they will eventually pay back their debts.

Now, honestly, how idiotic can you get ? you couldn't make this stuff up!

I don't believe in the Services economy, I think it is all BS, I think more services make everyone worse off, I think the less services we need and have the better and richer we are. There. I said it.

I also think no one in those EU countries and most of the world see the real problem: it will be impossible to create enough real jobs to pay back the debts, because extra jobs are no longer needed structurally because a Technological Economy kills jobs, doesn't create them: also add in that we now have millions of new workers and areas of the world producing the "goods" part of the economy (think your LCD TV in South Korea, think China, India (your software ?), think Brazil, Indonesia, etc.) and you can be sure that the USA, EU and JAPAN are headed for a huge gradual economic contraction that will last years.

There is truly only so much BS that you can make up as services, it won't work, you can't fool yourselves any longer...

To Busty:

"Yum, yum, yum - I'm not fat, I JUST LIKE FOOD!"

"They eat their Pot Pies and watch cable TV "

You have deeply acquired a "Pleasure must be punished" mode of reasoning from you prior christian religion: but since you need to believe in god since you need to believe in absolutes, you have transferred that god to that huge turd called Nature, and since we punish nature by using it for our pleasure, we must all be punished. Nice job of fooling yourself, of making believe you don't believe in god anymore.

We need ever more pleasure forever for all because we simply must be honest and say to ourselves: we are slobs, filthy slobs that just want pleasure and fun, and there is no god and therefore: EAT, DRINK AND BE MERRY AND THEN YOU DIE.
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Please scroll past these blocks of texts. Please erase all of my posts from the Internet. Please erase the Internet. Thank you.

People are simply chunks of matter with a block of text attached. So when 2 people encounter each other their blocks of text collide and that generates 2 new blocks of text in their mind ready to collide again, and the cycle repeats. But it is mostly a game of testing what opposes our will power, the opposing will power games, we want A and the other person may or may not want the same or similar or slightly different hence the debate, interaction, the colliding and interacting blocks of text (and that is why people want to eat and stay together to feel they have a similar will power wanting the same things, friend or foe, but mostly a slight game of approval and disapproval, but mostly approval as we are all friends, etc.). And even our face, body, situation, all of those objective invariants of which we cannot do much about (the girl wants a pretty face but has an ugly one, etc.) seem to be part of an abstract will power opposing ours (and we try a surgery to fix a face, body and make it prettier and such) with the idea that in some strange way our invariants are actually dependent on our will power, when they are a given, independent: as if our ugly face is saying something that we don't want to say since it gives a given reaction of disgust from the other person, as if that can depend on my will power, but it can't, it is independent but we still create a guilt complex on something that we didn't do or choose but gets associated with our will power and wanting it. So we try to compensate in all possible ways, but, lets face it, nothing you can do can make ugly pretty, so just give up and accept it (especially if pretty also means pretty body, sound of voice, way of moving in others word hot and even more than hot, intriguing and so forth, and then add nice and interesting blocks of text that pretty chunk of matter emits and there is then no comparison, matter just decided that one chunk is better than another and you are the bad chunk, the envious, jealous bad one full of guilt because you know you are the bad one and you suck and you assign it your own fault when matter and that huge turd of nature decided for you). As if the ugly face is a set of symbols that you always say but goes completely against what you want to say therefore embarrasses you, makes you lose a win/lose game, it opposes your will power but it is saying it all the same.

And even more interesting is the association of a pretty face with a block of text and how the block of text changes and becomes more interesting and almost acceptable independent of what the block of text says: if San Jose Mommy's (by the way, will you be my mommy, please ? I need a mommy more than I need to get laid, I haven't had a boner in 20 years, go figure, will you be my mommy ? pretty please ? I can play in the backyard while you cook..and I need a spanking too!) hot and horny teenage slut talks, then whatever she says, whatever block of text becomes "pretty" interesting, but only because a pretty chunk of matter is emitting the symbols, but the symbols get confused and interact with the other parts of the chunk of matter, while if that old piece of crap Alexandra talks (maybe she was hot when she was young, but she is now a horny slut that plays with vlad's black d*ldo, go figure) any block of text she emits becomes a huge pile of crap and false: the independence of the symbols emitted from the chunk of matter no longer holds, the symbols get contaminated by the emitting chunk of matter.

TOBOR
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Please scroll past these blocks of texts. Please erase all of my posts from the Internet. Please erase the Internet. Thank you.

Since the chinese spammer is emitting all of those weird symbols, so cool! I love the fact that I can't understand them, they must mean something really cool and interesting.... then I will take a stab at emitting a set of symbols that represent a new design and schematic and block diagram of a new modified mind (or mind - brain ? or man - brain ? ):

£K$KK&KMKM&G&çG;ç;&çG;ç;ç;H°;°$/%(&
(/==)=$)=£)=$/%(&(/==)=$)=£)=$/%(&(/==)
"))£)IIIIIIIIIIII£39i49i4èp
rkflrrrrrrrrrrrrr=$)=£)=$/%(&(/
==)=$)=£)=!£OKP£OKPK$DOKO$KDOKO%%=$£20202002222
"%$£%$%"/)($)=£!+4ì4òè4tgòl,+43c 3kl23kl4kl45£=================99)))))))))))))$(%(/)&%&&&&&&&====?=?\$=£?£££££££

Wow! Who knows what is going on in those neural circuits, in those symbol processors and information to matter converters, in those healthy emotional to symbolic converters, etc...

Each symbol must be a completely different circuit, a metaphysical recursion engine producing the structure of abstract, each set of symbols must be an equation, an interaction, a wild new universe that is colliding with the next set of symbols, but the delimitations and words are not given, it must be figured out, whoow, it will take many trillions upon trillions of man years to finally understand that new mind....
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Interactions between groups of people, between 2 people are always a person searching for confirmation for himself, always looking for a good judgment, or any judgment, or any trigger of a flow of thoughts in the other person or any possible conditioning of the other person's will power by making him answer and interact, etc. So this flow of interactions make it seem that you are always winning because you are forcing an interaction, getting confirmed, a slight win/lose game based on talking to pretty or interesting: you want to talk to pretty because you want to be reflected in the acceptance from pretty and associate youself with that acceptance, etc. So we want pretty to reflect ourselves in.

Snob, but by explaining it always you think you can put yourself on top of it and be superior to it and compensate the imaginary or real or subtle good judgments you are not getting by pretending to be outside of it and rationalizing it: sore loser, no way jose', nothing you think or any truth you reach will ever compensate the experience of interaction and receiving a good judgment and being accepted, recognized or loved, liked, or whatever.

And then those who may work - force on some detached task that will give them an indirect confirmation or acceptance, but the deatched item may interact once evey now and then, maybe once a year, or every ten years so all the expectations are thrown on only those very low frequency interactions: the lower the frequency the higher the expectations, better many more often and lower expectations, or none at all, so you just give up and you are not a slave of the need to interact and be affirmed and judged well, loved, etc. you just cancel the function that forces you to interact and that assigns non interaction as you supposing to feel bad.
nameta9
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Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/what-gives.html

May I intercede on god - atheism and such: no one knows, there is no right answer, you can only say to the question:

Does god exist ? I don't know. End of story.

The universe is too weird, crazy, relative, strange, insane, you name it to exclude the possibility that a god exists go figure.

We search interaction with pretty (the pretty lady - girl ?) to find ourselves, to affirm ourselves: we are only searching for an extension of ourselves through the other, and we are really talking to ourselves through the other, hoping in a good judgment, we need affirmation, value given to us through other independent minds to be sure.(or even bad judgments ? being seen as evil ? anything as long as ee are defined ?).
We are searching for ourselves through others always.

And the mesages we communicate interacting, slight messages or body languages or anything can be interpreted in so many ways by the other party, from indifferent to extreme, and maybe they both get it all wrong or all correct and you would never have imagined, and you may attempt a chance but the other party may think "are you insane to try that ?", or "what were you thinking ?",or may be plesantly surprised, or anything you can imgine. Unknown is the name of the game, always...
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Everything is a Dream gone Bad
nameta9
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### Re: Workerless Society - How Many Exchanges ?

Good job Busty ! That a boy, create complex Iconoclastic blocks of text! That's the way I like it.

1) That would have to be 1,000 dollars a month for a family of 4; so 160 million people could be covered; and housing is a variable cost, house could cost zero, it is already built, etc. Also health care is a variable cost it could cost way less as many countries in the world show that sufficient enough health care can cost a small fraction of the cost in USA. But to the GDP it would be 1/20 of the GDP and the same as the Military Budget so free salaries don't even cost so much at all.

2) GDP is really a fairy tale number, it is just a wild number put there to show some correspondence between goods and "services" and numbers, big numbers, so they look like we are so so much richer than what we are; but we are rich only according to how we interact with each other, what we consider and evaluate as rich. Anyways, don't believe in the GDP numbers too much...

3) I still think that the problem is cultural - we need some big projects, a lot of them, to make people want to work and engage in big new things...

4) Don't believe in the so many new ideas things, I don't think many great inventions or contraptions are really possible anymore, we got spoiled in the last 300 years, too many huge game changers(Electricity, Trains, Cars, Jets, Computers, etc.) and we took that progress for granted ! Are you kidding me ? No way jose', most of the biggies have been discovered and applied, now we must choose how to use what we have.

5) The greatest invention(s) will also be the last invention possible for Mankind: a new design of the mind - brain - new neural circuits, etc. Now we are talking about really game shattering changes, a new way to look and experience the world because you have a new brain! WOW!

6) The system is a crashed computer program (like me) because work is no longer needed, necessary, that is the real problem, and there is no way to invent or force work that is not needed. And we have two reciprocally reinforcing forces that are making this issue of "what work do we need ? how much should it be paid ? how many jobs to do what ?" worse everyday: technology kills jobs, and millions of new workers worldwide (China, Brazil, Indonesia) now participating in the global workforce, so in a sense there is a real resource scarcity going on JOBS ARE FINISHING AT AN ALARMING RATE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE USA, EU AND JAPAN.
nameta9
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