Putin's game

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Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:07 am

There is something missing in Capitalism and Putin knows it. What is it? The hidden scepter , the logistics of experience, the rationality everyone is searching for. It makes no sense for a capitalist like Putin to go against the grain of a defeated materialist dialectic, the material has been chucked out of it. What remains? The dialectic, the synthesis of which, has stood up against the tests of time, and the functionalism of which, the x/dx of which has failed to deliver. If we give Deleuse a chance at rehabilitation, of an illness as a metaphor, then, all the steps along the way could be correlated with definitions of differentials between meaning and the quantifies. no one really knows the border where society and the person have absolute nexus,,and thus, there remains a wide grey area area of uncertainty.

This synthesis is what Putin is exploiting, this supposed backwater of a categorical imperative, where the should outweighs the fact. This uncertainty, is prominent in Obama, it is not just an uncertainty based on the moral dilemma, but it goes to the heart of the matter, it is a reversal into absolute formal dialectics , devoid of the trappings of materialism, for material is where the West already has won, no, stripped to it's bare essentials, the functionalism has lost it's credence since 2007, and the test of it's validity is still ongoing. the mechanics of politics, has none left of schizoanalysis within it's secondary extensions, it is surely a redundancy to claim that, it has entropied into the classic ideologies of opposites. the functional descriptions failed to define the differentiation between the myth, metaphor and the meaning. The only true basis of the limits of the entropy, is like the past "phony war" battles by proxy. Sounds familiar. the dregs of familiarity reduced to a supposed certainty. functional utility has been prettywell been bankrupted.

It is the softness of reason, which is most at fault here.

Putin is working on a gross subconscious, of guilt.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby The Golden Turd » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:21 am

I'm a bit lost, can you explain this in terms I would grasp?

I understand only the last line.... but can't figure how the rest relates.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:23 am

Sorry Contra, just got off plane and have buzz. What Putin's game is, is not really his own game. It is the game the old politicchicks have not forgotten to play,albeit with the twist, which their philosophers support. just as, Obama has his advisors, writers,. I think he is a really smart guy who has his mind wrapped around the pulse of this new social world .

Marxism has been bankrupted , but the ideological certainty relating to among other things, societal welfare, political certainty, nationalistic ambiguity, has not been successfully erased from the face of the world. To give an example, the supposed foreign aid given to victim/nations of natural disasters, end up in the pockets of unethical leaders of such nations, uncaring of the hardships of their constituents. This is old and the ever recurring dictators of banana republics, of middle Eastern kingdoms, including the late Sha of Iran, exemplify the political insensitivity of the hidden catch and motive for procurement of such foreign aid .

This endemic process has consequences, which an ex KGB man like Putin must be aware of.


These and other 'soft' political processes undermine any progress which the so called economic recovery has attained since the last Great Recession.

What Deleuze and Guattari were doing with ontology was to try to rehabilitate it by describing the symtomological with what they called schizoanalysis. The point they were making was, that the ontological certainty of prior times in terms of the dialectic have been replaced by the Marxian dialectic, which have transformed the personal-social relationship into functional definitions. They refer to Leibnitz's use of correlating quantified function with the utility of Western Capitalism. This is the crux of the argument, which not only Putin, but his advisors and think thanks are not oblivious to. With Snowden sitting there, giving them some pointers, he has help.

The weakness of Obama is tangential to this functional inadequacy of forming cohesion,which is centerpiece of the French gentlemen referred to.

The redundancy of Marxian ideology, has been defeated, thereby allegedly disqualifying the kind of synthesis he promoted. Therefore further decompensation or entropy of this idea have Kantian-Heglelian overtones. In other words, the world has become too crazy, in then utilitarian-capitalistic market, not to fall or implode into an abyss of a dysfunction. Here comes the neo Kantians, putting the idea of dialectic as a foundation, albeit one without the trappings of materialism, which have supposedly succumbed , due to the superior mechanism of free enterprise. Putin, is aware of this weakness, is paying lip service to it, and is not afraid to use Capitalist weakness to overcome it's self.

This is a war of ideas, disreputing such as the above notions brought forward by the two French thinkers mentioned. They want to reassert the war of ideas, as formative and definitive, and thereby negating any central position promoted by them, such as functionalism. The new idea was that the social political process which capitalism bore down on the individual ,creating functionally untenable social psychological positions. They are using the material dialectic critique , to defend against Popper, (open society and it's enemies) by, pointing out the inadequacy of an attack on the dialectic materialism as asserting an identification with a synthetic solution between ideology and materialism. They do this by replacing it with a difference(ial) in the correlation between ideology and material .This difference replaces the dialectic, by quantifying the difference between personal and societal value.

This is what I see as the idea behind the myth of trying to understand Putin other then ashallow thinker, but one who has the old Soviet Academy behind his bold actions. This is how Obama's reticence can be understood, it is not simply a war of irresolute conflict, but a sustained struggle of an ill defined ideas.

At the same time, the West is struggling to maintain this struggle within the confines of what has come to be defined as the New World Order. The West here is at a certain disadvantage, do to this underlying weakness of the marketplace of ideas of utilitarianism.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby The Golden Turd » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:15 pm

Yeah... your giving Putin too much intellectual credit in assuming he read A Thousand Plateaus (fuck, I only read half of it, skimmed the rest, had to explain it to a artist getting or major in a warehouse at North Beach.... that book sucked, and she didn't suck me)

I know he didn't read Popper either.

Reason is, he is taking a purely orthodox and rather superficial approach to statecraft..... he is trying to regain a center.... hence his feigned religious feelings in backing the new intellectual powerhouse of Russia, The Russian Orthodox Church, which is tying up all the countries group feeling among ethnic christians there (not to good with his sunni population), and is aggressively asserting the one portion of the russian state that is competent and lucrative as the forefront of his foreign policy. This is the energy sector..... from pipelines to Europe, surveying gas fields and building infrastructure in Syria, to deep gold and silver mining in Mongolia, and Hydroelectric Capacity to China..... it is all they got. Their weapon sales have become a joke.

They can't really sell international weapons that well anymore, but they still can project limited force, and organize independent contractors and train the locals, while advising higher leadership in said countries. The problem is, so can the Chinese.... and better.

So Russia is clinging on for dear life to what it has. I've been looking over Syria for example.... you can see some evidence of this in my Iraq thread, where I started uncovering linjs between Russian Oil and the initial ISIS invasion of Iraq this year..... it makes sense..... dramatically reduced the pressure on Russian oil fields, but only temporarily. It caused a massive uptick in ISIS pushes back into Russian Fields.... 300 oil field operators killed (Russian backed), and half a platoon of Syrians..... but a whole Platoon of ISIS in return.

In terms of cause and effect, that is deeply fucking ineffective, but they undoubtedly got alot pumped out in the meantime. Enough to cover the employee replacement rate, doubtful?

Syria imports some arms, but not really that much. Syria is in fact a energy producing competitor. But its all Russia has in the region. The huge contracts for hundreds of millions of dollars..... largely worthless. Its funny money, balanced between Syrian and Russian banks, both sides know its bullshit, as Syria has embargoes and credit freezes, cant really trade, and barely imports shit from Russia. Russia can't be doing too well from this arrangement, but gets plenty of free press to sell to other such backwards regimes which are too unstable for even the Chinese...... "If you have a product for export, we will arm you, give you credit, and long term aid in exchange of favorable contracts once you recover developing your more troubled territories that your tired of dealing with anyway".

Once you exit Russian Energy and Security expertise, they look dysfunctional as fuck, even within Russia. Russia has one commodity, its the Spice, but no monopoly. Their Chief competitor, China, needs it.... so its not too bad. America increasingly isn't the exporter it was (good thing Obama did) but cant as of yet export seriously (idiotic thing Obama did).

Putin is manipulating the Russian Central Bank to achieve long term goals. Europe is shutting down slowly to him. His population is dwindling, and there are only so many former parts of the soviet union he can comfortably invade for grabbing hold of territorial chunks of amicable population willing to reintegrate.

He really doesn't have a long, long term strategy. Not much appearance of a policy of diversifying state competency, beyond resurrecting a few cold war diplomatic relics. No great tech drive, beyond a foreign built Russian cellphone.

He is rather old school. Pre-Marxist if anything.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby The Golden Turd » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:24 pm

This is all a quote from the bottom of this link:
Gazprom held talks with Kuwait and Egypt about expanding supplies of liquefied natural gas and next month hopes to sign a large long-term supply deal with China. Igor Sechin president of Rosneft and a powerful ally of Vladimir Putin, went on a whirlwind tour of customers and counterparties in Japan, South Korea, Vietnam and India.
Ronald Smith, oil and gas analyst at Citigroup in Moscow, said the current crisis was “turning Russian eyes east”.
None would disagree, however, that if Europe were successful in navigating away from Russian energy, the impact on Russia would be significant.
While Europe is dependent on Russian oil, gas and coal supplies, the dependence is mutual: Europe accounts for half of Gazprom’s gas revenues, according to the company, and 71 per cent of Russia’s crude oil exports, according to the International Energy Agency.
But few Russian groups are especially concerned about the short- or medium-term effects of Europe’s renewed push to reduce energy dependence on Moscow.
“Gazprom has heard it all before,” said Jonathan Stern, director of gas research at the Oxford Institute of Energy Studies. “For the past 20 years Europe has been trying to diversify away from Russian gas and failed.”
In the longer term, Russian companies are just as actively trying to diversify their own customer base as European politicians are trying to diversify supplies.
“Recent developments may accelerate the process of export diversification by Russian oil and gas companies and strengthen collaboration with Asian partners as a long-term trend,” analysts at Gazprombank said in a recent note.
In a recent draft energy strategy for the next 20 years, Russia’s energy ministry outlined plans to double oil sales and quintuple gas sales to Asia by 2035. “The most import task is a rapid entry into the Asia Pacific market,” it said.
Russian energy groups have begun this push. A growing share of oil, largely from Rosneft, is flowing directly to China by pipeline. Lukoil last week started commercial production at its enormous West Qurna field in Iraq – much of whose production is likely to be sold in Asian markets, analysts say. And Novatek, together with CNPC of China, is building an LNG terminal that will help shift gas exports towards Asia.
Alexei Pushkov, head of the foreign relations committee in the Duma, summed up the Russian view on Europe’s plans last week. Any reduction in imports from Russia thanks to Europe’s diversification strategy “is not a prospect for the next few years,” he said. “And by that time I think Russia will find alternative gas export markets, especially in an environment of strong Asian demand for gas.”
“It seems to me that Russian gas will continue to have a consumer in the European markets for some time.

http://m.ft.com/login?dest=%2Fcms%2Fs%2 ... abdc0.html

The result is obvious..... Russia will significantly expand its pacific fleet in Vladivostok and in the Gulf of Eden will increase for a while anti piracy operations, but then more likely find it cheaper to eventually back a straggler like a Somali state or Eritrea as a base to destabilize the gulf.

If will also need to start buying up long term leases on property along the south east asian route, which will cause mixed feelings everywhere, even in China.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:07 pm

Contra , thanks , and I appreciate Your ref to a Thousand Plateaus. I imagine what You may be thinking, in terms of possible allusions made toward the issues which peripheral now, imply a kernel of logistics relating to the substance of that book.

I have never really read it, but the theory of ideas bearing with in it's own meaning sphere, resonates throughout , and is not suspect to charges of loss of identity within its own structure. meaning it is within it's own scope of understanding, and Putin may or may not know this, and may just as well react intuitively in line with the intuitive school of philosophy.

In fact we are all, every one of us , philosophers in one way or another, if we can define philosophy as such: I think therefore i philosophize. Given that premiss, it is excusable for Putin not to have read up and work the system against it's very own being, as an identity within itself, Sui generis.


In this manner of looking at it, all may be forgiven, and forgiveness is what is the name of the game, as the West recently said, 'this is a test for Russia, maybe the last'
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:50 pm

I'm sorry but putin is an idiot and to give him credit for anything but realpolitik or power politics is
simply wrong. Putin is former KGB and that means essential he was a policeman and policemen
are just not that smart. They don't wrestle over matters philosophical. Policemen believe in
black and white and good and evil because anything else doesn't help them do their job.
The goal is simply power, nothing more complex then that. How to achieve power and how to keep it,
that is the name of the game for Putin and all other petty dictators like him.
Putin is now a multi-billionaire which means he played the age old game of stealing
a country blind. Putin doesn't know or care about anything but power, that's the list for him.

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Re: Putin's game

Postby The Golden Turd » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:39 am

Putin may believe in a emotive concept called power, but it is one that exchanges space and time for identity. He is in search of a continuation of Russian identity, long after he dies, as Ivan the Terrible or Peter the Great did.

Ideally, his wealth and Russia's lasting future are not incompatible. This would be the best of both worlds for him. In some scenarios, I see this working. In others, he is pushing his own endeavors to build up a new russian state into a counter productive cycle which will ultimately undermine Russia in a few generations, leaving it to be a much smaller country than we know it to be now.

What Putin is doing now isn't to alien to what other Neo-Conservative States have traditionally done when facing a demographics collapse, and needing to restructure its economic model. Spartans tried to, Byzantines succeeded, the repeated cycle of warring states in China lead to this outcome repeatedly, Constantine had some success in recovering from the first pagan revolt against the assassination of Emperor Alexander Severius, ending the years of troubles.....

These eras happen. It's the Kyklos Cycle, governments morph and change. There was an era under Marsilius of Padua where catholic monks, who took a vow of poverty, would intentionally seek out and foster an ideal of power politics. So don't tell me its not philosophical. You wouldn't have Dante, you wouldn't have Machiavelli, or the Protestant Reformation. Nietzsche aped alot of him. Putin is playing to a historic philosophical prescription. One the Cynics, via Marsilius are responsible for. He was our baby, as we are all his.

But no..... there isn't a stable psychological conception called power. There never was a solid concept. It morphed and alluded to its verbalized predecessor in every era, yanked out of the history books and dictionaries without much of a second thought, more of a presumption and aphrodisiac to cure dissent and make resentment more appeasing, to the vagaries of each culture. Power is as real as Ether, and happens to be everywhere like it too, unseen but by plain logic, clearly felt, and stupid to deny. Only time it begins to crack as a concept is when strategy is brought up. Then, piwer is assured, or crumbles to dust by the same statistics, via differing approaches and viewpoints. There is no assurity beyond absurdity, or grace beyond the reach of disbelief. Nothing is sacred, save a fools beauty.

Putin grasps this in parts. He was, after all, KGB. It was his business to know. But how wide, how diverse is the inner circle of his state? Is the underlining experience and status of those he most relies on too restrictive and specialized, too embedded into the history of the old state, and their continuance into the new to see beyond how dangerously redundant and short sighted they've become?

That is the essential danger of a geriatricracy of oligarchs during revolutionary times..... as their elder Spartan forefathers..... quite capable of differentiating and elucidating fine concepts and matters the young miss, but completely unable to see a world beyond themselves, despite this being their every intention.

So, expect spontaneous, impressive flexing of Russian muscle.... but don't forget to compare it to trends in other states. Their position isn't very good for long term success, and they don't appear to be building a realistic basis for staying power anywhere militarily. This sucks for a state that is seeking to be the energy exporter for the world, a state that needs a strong merchant marine and naval presence to pull it off, and despite impressive Soviet shows during the 20th century, is essentially last, fighting for table scraps for basic logistic hubs and exploration rights to land in the third world.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:50 pm

He may be all power politics and the point that such things as manifest destiny are proverbial amount the eastern civilizations, and this fit in with the intuitive notion which at times have a large philosophical heritage. Whether his level of understanding can be qualified, is not a correlate, because he may see causality in terms of gut level, again paralleling lines of subscribed ideas. Besides, there are people with whom he consults and although, maybe these things don't matter con a conscious level, but even looking at them as cultural artifacts they matter on a level of underscernable effect.

Putin conceivably does not have to have knowledge of what' behind the effects, that in reality, there is a hidden encyclopedia of reasons which refer to the unresolved ideological struggle, upon which premises he acts albeit almost by rote, however these underpinnings are the ones over the effective use of language, understanding and actions are based on.

To give a similar analogy with Levi Stauss's interpolation of aborigines social format the dimensions and the structural dynamics are least understood, apart from some general terminology defining it. Mistique is a term to describe social adhesion. With Putin, a similar process may be going on, based on the mystique of the effects of the late Soviet Union. it is a topical prima faciae overwiev of what those effects are, to which they could be attributed, and how can the course be reversed. Putin is a reactionary, and his understanding has some basis, some of which he can easily interpolate from the presidency of Obama, the concept of the world order, etc. He does not need to go below that, into the philosophical foundations , unless he wants the kind of necessity those grounds require. His Interlopers with more depth ,can resort
To those. But those grounds will not go away, and they are always sustained in connection with seeking relevance.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:28 pm

The massing of soldiers on the Ukranian border, the rhetoric, the sanctions, NATO's warning to Putin , and it's pledge of assistance, echo the familiar drumbeats of rebel rousing. How likely a further escalation, or it's opposite? The reason for Russia's hunger for re-possessing this former member of the Soviet Union is, because most of the heavy industry supplying Russia with military equipment is located there. It is inconceivable, if push came to shove, that Russia will back down on this at any cost. Putin calculation is likely to be congruent with the rapidly approaching lame duck potus , backing down, as has been his pattern.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Arminius » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:25 pm

Obe wrote:Kantian-Heglelian overtones.

Would you mind explaining what you mean by that?

Obe wrote:This is a war of ideas, disreputing such as the above notions brought forward by the two French thinkers mentioned. They want to reassert the war of ideas, as formative and definitive, and thereby negating any central position promoted by them, such as functionalism.

Do you mean that Deleuze and Guattari want the war of ideas?

Obe wrote:The reason for Russia's hunger for re-possessing this former member of the Soviet Union ....

What about the West? Do you remember what happened after the so called "Cold War" relating to the former members of the USSR? Many states of the erstwhile Eastern Bloc came back into the Western control, and the Westerners agreed to the Russian will to control all - except the Baltic - erstwhile members of the USSR. That was the deal. According to this deal it is not allowed that the ertswhle members of the USSR can also become a member of the EU, thus EUSSR.

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I don't think that one can speak of "Putin's game", although Putin is more powerful than Obama - not at first because of the dictatorship, but because of the fact that US presidents are politicians (as functionaries!), but not rulers because they are dependent on their money lenders, donors, "sponsors". Not only Russia has an interest in the erstwhile members of the USSR, but also the West, in spite of the fact that according to the deal I mentioned (see above) the West is not allowed to have an interest in the erstwhile members of the USSR. So the presumption is justified that the West is corrupt and that not the West itself - as a whole -, but his leaders, the globalists, have this interest and pretend as if the whole West would defend the so called "free world". That's ridiculous!

Please don't understand me wrong, because I am not saying that Putin is innocent. But the West is also not innocent.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:54 pm

Arminius wrote:
Obe wrote:Kantian-Heglelian overtones.

Would you mind explaining what you mean by that?

Obe wrote:This is a war of ideas, disreputing such as the above notions brought forward by the two French thinkers mentioned. They want to reassert the war of ideas, as formative and definitive, and thereby negating any central position promoted by them, such as functionalism.

Do you mean that Deleuze and Guattari want the war of ideas?

Obe wrote:The reason for Russia's hunger for re-possessing this former member of the Soviet Union ....

What about the West? Do you remember what happened after the so called "Cold War" relating to the former members of the USSR? Many states of the erstwhile Eastern Bloc came back into the Western control, and the Westerners agreed to the Russian will to control all - except the Baltic - erstwhile members of the USSR. That was the deal. According to this deal it is not allowed that the ertswhle members of the USSR can also become a member of the EU, thus EUSSR.

Image

I don't think that one can speak of "Putin's game", although Putin is more powerful than Obama - not at first because of the dictatorship, but because of the fact that US presidents are politicians (as functionaries!), but not rulers because they are dependent on their money lenders, donors, "sponsors". Not only Russia has an interest in the erstwhile members of the USSR, but also the West, in spite of the fact that according to the deal I mentioned (see above) the West is not allowed to have an interest in the erstwhile members of the USSR. So the presumption is justified that the West is corrupt and that not the West itself - as a whole -, but his leaders, the globalists, have this interest and pretend as if the whole West would defend the so called "free world". That's ridiculous!

Please don't understand me wrong, because I am not saying that Putin is innocent. But the West is also not innocent.




Hegel and Kant, and even Leibnitz can be linearly connected to Continental rationalism, and Deleuze et al. sustain some kind, in this preferance, toward it. I always felt that the Continental debacle came to a crisis because of the disintegration of post WW2 Europe, and existentialism is proof positive of this philosophycal period piece.

However Deleuze and Guattari do not desire any war of ideas, they are aware of the conflict and are merely describing them. Whether the language of ideology in which the ideas are presented are relevant in terms of the framework of meaning of a lasting sort, is the problem for them.

Putin, some pointed out, is not philosophically remarkable, however, he is, like Obama, not working in a thoughtless vacuum. The weakness You pointed out, in the West, is taken advantage, by the political inaction which seems to manifest a personal weakness in leaders. This may not be the case at all, only a misconstructed idea maybe purposefully planted.

The aversion to war, of a direct action with Russia is evident in the current policy, based on a presumption that the material has trumped the dialectic part of the equation. I think all participants are aware of this, Your own president charged Putin with 'living in the past".
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Arminius » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:21 am

obe wrote: The weakness You pointed out, in the West, is taken Advantage ....

Do you believe that the "weakness" in the West and its implications will change some day?
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:04 am

Arminius wrote:
obe wrote: The weakness You pointed out, in the West, is taken Advantage ....

Do you believe that the "weakness" in the West and its implications will change some day?




Not until the ideological strength of adversaries is matched by the West. We are at a certain disadvantage in the west by a conflation between what human rights and laissez fair's corruptible sense of meaning may imply. More people are unaware, that this is the crux of the dilemma. How can an impoverished, broken down man be seen as anything but unfree? The hidden sense of this weakness, is the recurrence of the cyclical nature of the so called 'economic recession'. We just had a bad one, and a worse may yet to come.

I think that, it is very likely that these weaknesses can be fixed on the long run, but at the moment, many sense and feel the desperation surrounding any attempt for a quick 'cure'
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Arminius » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:33 pm

obe wrote:We are at a certain disadvantage in the west by a conflation between what human rights and laissez fair's corruptible sense of meaning may imply.

"Human rights" "are" to be read only on paper and "are" because of merely one "right": 1% of the humans "is" allowed to exploit and destroy the Earth and 99% of the humans.
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Re: Putin's game

Postby Orbie » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:54 pm

Even if only 1 man retains that right, we still cant disqualify the form of the guarantee for the right to life. But, we all know, if only one would try to do so, others from the 99% would exercise their right to depose him, if other means were not available. It s inconceivable that the formal element in any constitution not reduce, hypothetically, to 1, since the principles of universals is behind it. The relationship between the 1 and the many, has never been an easy one, however, it has always worked on various principles of game theory, limits, and fortitude.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Putin's game

Postby Arminius » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:25 pm

Depose? Constitution? All that is not relevant for the 1%.
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