One of the big reasons this whole controversy is just SO insipid is that gender switchers have been using the bathrooms of their choice for decades (at least) and there has never been any problem with it. No one got raped or assaulted, none of the tight-ass, paranoid conservatives were any the wiser, and no LGBT activists felt compelled to parade the fact that “i am a former man/woman using the women’s/men’s room and if you try to stop me i will sue!”. Now we have this bullshit happening, with right wing pandering states passing unnecessary laws, left wing pandering Obama issuing unnecessary edicts, and everyone left and right acting like this media-driven fight is of symbolic importance to some imagined moral crusade. Only in fucking America.
Then there’s the simple fact that virtually EVERYONE EVERYWHERE lives and/or grew up in situations where they share/shared bathrooms with people of the opposite gender/sex all the time. You honestly are comfortable going to the bathroom with strangers of the same gender/sex but not strangers of the opposite gender/sex? Really? Well then, my question is: What caused that mental malfunction in you?
Hey, I said I don’t care but, I just think for parents that have young ones it would be an issue. I have pooped in the woods with a raccoon and a bobcat staring at me. Now that was wierd, a penis next to me can not hold a candle to that.
Yeah but was the raccoon a boy or a girl? Or one of the new genders they came up with?
Anyway, this is the left’s new cause. Get on board or be considered a bigot for the rest of your life. The point of the bathroom fight is to push the idea that if a man decides he’s a woman, he becomes one. That’s the new orthodoxy people are obligated to accept, and public bathrooms are one of the only places where a typical person would ever be affected by the question, so it’s going to be the a battleground.
You brought up parents. Remember that while this is going on, there are parents putting their kids on hormones to suppress puberty, because the kid wants to be the opposite sex. “Your sex is a decision you make” is for whatever reason an important bit of leftist jargon as of now.
Actually, the real conflict started when the conservative governor of North Carolina signed the subject of this thread into law. But, regardless, yeah, i mostly agree with what you’re saying. But i see it as, if someone born with a penis wants to live as a woman, then who the fuck cares? And if living as a woman entails using the women’s room, then . . . well . . . who the fuck cares? i don’t think s/he should sue for the “right” to do so, nor do i think s/he should have to. It’s a fucking place to piss and shit. Everybody pisses and shits regardless of their gender or sex or politics, so why the fuck should it matter which toilets they use?
Agreed.
You are absolutely right, Pandora.
And so you can change it as often as you want. We are coming closer to the “highest civilization” ever: a society without any natural relatedness and without any difference between anything and everything; a society in which everything is equal, indifferent; a society like hell (confused with heaven).
Here is an important question: Are you human first or gender first or your self first and how do you list the the other two in sequence?
I am myself then human then gender. But, parent falls all through that list and can conflict.
Yeah, trannies weren’t in the news at all before that! 
Well, you have to care, because there’s going to be one on every T.V. show you watch from now on, and if you accidentally refer to one of them by the wrong pronoun you’ll be accused of a hate crime, and children under the age of 14 who decide they are the wrong gender will be going to clinics for hormone treatments- and if the parents don’t allow it, the parents will be considered bigots.
The whole “It doesn’t affect me so why cares” arguement is a couple decades too late. I know you aren’t used to being on the wrong side of history when it comes to this stuff, but the point isn’t to extend some right to trannies- as you point out, they’ve been mostly doing what they want this whole time. The point is to use them as a crowbar to bludgeon people into a new understanding of gender.
See, you’re already transphobic for saying s/he like that. In a couple years I’ll be getting reports and requests from people to ban you from these forums if you were to talk that way.
Note that this argument doesn’t get us anywhere. A person can say “Why the fuck should it matter what toilet you use- so use the one on your birth certificate instead of creeping everybody out”. Saying it doesn’t matter isn’t a decision, it’s an abdication to let somebhody else decide for you.
They were, yes - but the preoccupation with which set of toilets they can and cannot use is new, and inspired by frivolous and unnecessary legislation.
i doubt every TV show, but yeah, we’ll be seeing a lot more of them now that they are trendy and accepted by the general culture. Still, i really don’t care much. i live in a place were i already see trannies, not often, but with some regularity, and in my experience the shock and “WTF” emotions wear off pretty quick as long as you aren’t pre-convinced that it’s some great abomination.
Maybe, depending to who you’re talking to. i use the word “nigger” all the time around some people who really don’t care that i’m using it, and not because we hate black people - though certainly if i used the word around the wrong people they will accuse me of hating blacks or worse. If you say certain things around certain people, or commit certain gaffes around certain people, they will react badly and lash out at you. That’s not a new phenomenon, nor is it a strictly liberal one. Tell a seriously injured war vet that they are an idiot for having enlisted and you will be totally fucking pilloried by any and every conservative and Republican in earshot. Political correctness is as old as the hills and as universal as the fear of difference and deviance.
Eh, i doubt it. Really, i do. Hyperbolic. But, if the kid is a legal adult and convinced s/he wants to switch genders, then that’s his/her prerogative. Parents can think what they want and their disapproval may or may not be because they are bigoted, but that’s between the parent and kid, and not for me to judge either way.
Sort of, yeah. Social, cultural, political, ethical understandings about things change all the time and always have. Some changes are good, some are bad, but the majority are probably neutral. imo, this one is pretty neutral.
Maybe. And i doubt you’ll take them any more seriously then than you do now, so i’m not terribly worried.
A) You may have been born female, but if you look like a man, then you are more likely to creep people out by using the women’s room than by using the men’s. B) It doesn’t creep “everybody” out, that’s why there’s a controversy.
Not necessarily, sometimes things really just don’t matter. In any case, generally speaking, i think if a trannie has to piss or shit or wash their hands, it’s more on them to decide which bathroom they use, and not at all on me.
Obamacare Regulation Pressures Insurers to Cover Sex Change Operations. Taxpayers could subsidize gender reassignment surgeries through Medicaid, Medicare, and Obamacare.
freebeacon.com/issues/obamacare- … ex-change/
Health Care is supposed to make sick people healthy, not encourage and support mental illness. There are people out there who need actual medical care because their life may depend on it. There are people waiting for organ transplants, there are people who are in a long recovery process from serious damage done in auto accidents, there are people who have real life-threatening heart or vascular problems, people who suffer from diabetes and all of the accompanying horrifying complications, there are working people who have slipped disks and have to live with actual constant physical pain every day. And we, the tax payers, have to pay for someone whose feelings are hurt because he/she feels like an opposite sex, or some other imaginary gender combo? And what other mental illnesses do we need to support at the expense of real health? We need to step back and re-evaluate our values and priorities, and not let the greedy nearsighted lawyers argue just for the sake of arguing and a buck.
Wish that I could afford this system. I have to pay 12,000 a year in medical bills before obamacare insurance pay. I have compressed discs and my husband has heart problems. I have to prove I coughed up 12 a year plus premiums, how the hell can I afford that??? It would break us. So I followed what we were told to do, I signed up. Not one damn word was said about forking out premiums. You just sign up. I followed the law. I went for the $2.80 monthly payment btw. The payment poverty people can afford. The system did not ask my income level.
[quote=“uglypeoplefucking”]
“I don’t care” isn’t an argument, UPF. Maybe you just have a personality flaw that causes you not to care about things. Children being taught they might be transsexual in school and encouraged to go on hormone therapy just in case, transsexualism being pushed as normal in every media outlet and in all our entertainment, and people not being allowed to express normal notions of gender without being accused of a hate crime are all going to have big effects on society. You not caring about any of those things is an interesting auto-biographical note I suppose, but I have no interest or capability in making you care. I’m just noting the impact.
Why is it that you think “Guess what, I don’t care and I’m not concerned” is noteworthy? You say it in such a way that it seems as though you’re expecting a response. In fact, you almost treat it like it has some sort of argument weight. Let’s run it back the other way:
A: “If we don’t let trannies use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in, they will continue to feel marginalized and oppressed.”
B: “I don’t care.”
So what do you think? Does the oppression/marginalization of trannies cease to be an issue because the person you bring it up to doesn’t care about it? Is the point shot down, defeated, rebutted, weaked, or anything? It doesn’t seem like it to me.
It is, however, a nifty way to shut down the point A was trying to make rhetorically, in the context of that conversation. It’s impervious and can be used at any time: “If we do X, 50 people will die!” “I don’t care.” The person is obligated to either bring up entirely different concerns if they have vested interest in convincing the unconcerned, or they simply have to move on and bring up their concerns to somebody else.
Guess which one I’m going to do?
Overhauling/criminalizing a true understanding of gender to replace it with something politically correct will have massive consequences on society. Leftists don’t care about the social consequences of their reforms- this is known, and true virtually by definition. But the consequences still exist, a rational people have to weigh them against the benefits.
Target has opened its bathrooms to transgender individuals and is being boycotted because it has.
Does a retail store not have the right to determine who uses its crappers?
Yep, it is a private owned business and has private rights. Take away choice and soon we will have to have seperate bathrooms at home.
Somebody has sued them successfully?
And I think you are not allowed to determine who uses your business or facilities or how you conduct your business - anti-discrimination laws and all that jazz.
Yes you can decide your customers, employment though you cannot be bigoted, legally.
You can be bigoted, you just have to have a stronger lobbying group.
This determines who is the bigot among two opposing groups.
Unbelievable but typical.
It reminds me of this:
You know to which group the taxpayers belong.
Exactly. Again: Unbelievable!
But - unfortunately - all those who are really efficient for the society are really exploited by those who are really inefficient for the societies but really unexploited just because of the simple fact that they are the rulers.
They invent nonsensical reforms, and if it comes to the consequences of those nonsensical reforms they just say “I don’t care” and hide themselves behind “egalitarianism”. Doom. In the long run, “carelessness” means “death”. “Carelessness” is just another word for “equality” resp. “egalitarianism”. “Death” is the deeper, the actual meaning of “egalitarianism”.
i know. My whole original point in this thread is that the controversy is insipid to the core, so i don’t have an argument on one side or the other. i think both sides are being total jackasses. Caring about which bathroom transgendered people use is pointless and everyone is all worked up over nothing. By analogy let’s pass laws regarding whether the intermediate light between a green light and a red light is orange or yellow, and lets get all offended and start suing people who refer to it as the wrong color. Now i understand that this contributes nothing to resolving which bathroom any given tranny might be permitted to use, but i never intended to contribute anything towards a resolution of that question. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. i wasn’t trying to derail the thread or anything tho.
Eh, i live in a liberal metropolitan area and none of those things are actually happening on any noteworthy scale where i am. i have trouble imagining they’re happening on any noteworthy scale anywhere else, either - but then, i don’t listen to talk radio or watch FOX News.
So far, the greatest impact i’ve noted is retarded laws like N. Carolina’s and the ensuing controversy. Interestingly, that conservative law has done more to throw transgender “rights” into the cultural spotlight than decades of LGBT activism.
Yeah, but i’m not saying i don’t care if 50 people die, i’m saying i don’t care if a male to female transsexual takes a shit in the ladies’ room. Those statements may very well be analogous in the way you point out, but that’s just a nifty way of making me look bad for not caring, rather than acknowledging that there’s no real reason to care where a transsexual shits, as long as it’s in a flushable toilet.
Ok, then i’m waiting on examples of those massive consequences . . .