Yep, it is a private owned business and has private rights. Take away choice and soon we will have to have seperate bathrooms at home.
Somebody has sued them successfully?
And I think you are not allowed to determine who uses your business or facilities or how you conduct your business - anti-discrimination laws and all that jazz.
Yes you can decide your customers, employment though you cannot be bigoted, legally.
You can be bigoted, you just have to have a stronger lobbying group.
This determines who is the bigot among two opposing groups.
Unbelievable but typical.
It reminds me of this:
You know to which group the taxpayers belong.
Exactly. Again: Unbelievable!
But - unfortunately - all those who are really efficient for the society are really exploited by those who are really inefficient for the societies but really unexploited just because of the simple fact that they are the rulers.
They invent nonsensical reforms, and if it comes to the consequences of those nonsensical reforms they just say “I don’t care” and hide themselves behind “egalitarianism”. Doom. In the long run, “carelessness” means “death”. “Carelessness” is just another word for “equality” resp. “egalitarianism”. “Death” is the deeper, the actual meaning of “egalitarianism”.
i know. My whole original point in this thread is that the controversy is insipid to the core, so i don’t have an argument on one side or the other. i think both sides are being total jackasses. Caring about which bathroom transgendered people use is pointless and everyone is all worked up over nothing. By analogy let’s pass laws regarding whether the intermediate light between a green light and a red light is orange or yellow, and lets get all offended and start suing people who refer to it as the wrong color. Now i understand that this contributes nothing to resolving which bathroom any given tranny might be permitted to use, but i never intended to contribute anything towards a resolution of that question. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. i wasn’t trying to derail the thread or anything tho.
Eh, i live in a liberal metropolitan area and none of those things are actually happening on any noteworthy scale where i am. i have trouble imagining they’re happening on any noteworthy scale anywhere else, either - but then, i don’t listen to talk radio or watch FOX News.
So far, the greatest impact i’ve noted is retarded laws like N. Carolina’s and the ensuing controversy. Interestingly, that conservative law has done more to throw transgender “rights” into the cultural spotlight than decades of LGBT activism.
Yeah, but i’m not saying i don’t care if 50 people die, i’m saying i don’t care if a male to female transsexual takes a shit in the ladies’ room. Those statements may very well be analogous in the way you point out, but that’s just a nifty way of making me look bad for not caring, rather than acknowledging that there’s no real reason to care where a transsexual shits, as long as it’s in a flushable toilet.
Ok, then i’m waiting on examples of those massive consequences . . .
UPF, I understand. This is a big matter over the place for a little splatter.
The problem is with those who cry, "Not in my backyard’.-- as if relieving one’s bowels had anything to do with who deserves to do so where!
The matter should never have been made a political or economic issue. Doesn’t N.C. have more important legislation to make?
But I should not just single out N.C. Mississippi and 34 other states are espousing similar legislation.
And yes, this controversy gives trans persons validation as newsworthy individuals being exploited.
But one side agrees with you. No conservative wanted to care about trannies or pass laws about them or discuss them. This is all a product of the issue being raised as a crisis.
Well, the point that I’d like to make here is that there’s nothing to resolve. THink about it this way- there are millions of people who can’t use public bathrooms for a variety of reasons. Maybe your dick is busted and when you piss, it sprays out in like three different directions, meaning you can’t use a urinal or stand up when you go. Maybe your arms/hands/fingers are fucked up and you can’t wipe your ass. Maybe going to the bathroom for you is a 20 minute affair that involves wailing in pain and all sorts of other things you are unwilling to do in public. Maybe you got this fucked up social phobia where you just can’t go in any place where there’s even the possibility that somebody else might walk in. Maybe a lot of things. My point is, there are millions of people who for dozens of various reasons, successfully work “Well, I can’t use a public bathroom” into how they strategize their lives.
Trannies are not among them. They are perfectly capable of using the bathroom of the sex they look the most like (or hell, of not gender bending in public). They are putting themselves into a situation that complicates their life in a minor way. There’s no reason to ‘consider’ it.
Well, it can’t happen on a noteworthy scale yet because trannies aren’t even 1% of the population, even when you take into account the ones that are faking it. But all the stuff I mentioned is nevertheless real- if you are suspected of being trans at the age of 8-9, they will put you on special hormones to suppress the onset of adolescence until therapists and psychiatrists properly discern which ‘gender’ you are ‘supposed’ to be.
You just got done saying you don’t pay attention, remember? Yeah, the liberal sources you limit yourself too are raising a big stink about the N.C. law, so to you, this has ‘created’ the transgendered issue. That’s how this works. Before that though, there’s been stuff going on. Like Twitter putting a bot in their system that corrects any Tweets that refer to Caitlyn Jenner as ‘he’. Or this guy losing his job:
nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/02/fi … fired.html
Or the fact that post-op trannies kill themselves at roughtly the same rate as pre-op, and yet it’s still considered ‘the best most successful treatment’.
Or people being fined for not using the right pronouns:
You mean, there really is a crisis of transgendered people using (what we are supposed to believe) is the incorrect bathroom for them to use, and so NC’s conservatives had no choice but to pass this law? i don’t buy it. How does a man-turned-woman using a toilet in the ladies’ room even qualify as a crisis we need to combat with new legislation in the first place? In what way is it actually important to anyone - liberal or conservative or otherwise - if a man-turned-woman uses the ladies’ room? That’s NOT just a rhetorical question - i think anyone on either side who feels passionately about which is the correct bathroom for a transsexual to use should be asking themselves that question.
That much is true. And an obvious trannie who deliberately and ostentatiously walks into bathroom to freak people out is as much an asshole as the guy who says “we need to pass a law to spite trannies because they freak me out”. It’s uncivil either way, which is why i feel the way i do about the controversy.
According to that logic (which i mostly agree with) if someone born with a dick looks like a woman, then s/he should be using the ladies’ room, only the NC law (and dozens others just like it throughout the country) would make them law breakers for doing so.
No, I mean exactly what I said. Read it again. The left raised the idea that transsexuals aren’t being treated correctly as a social crisis, everybody got talking about it, everybody in particular got talking about trannies feeling unwelcome in the bathroom they want to use, and NC passed a law. You can compare it to how a bunch of states passed laws explicitly declaring that marriage is between a man and woman- response to an issue somebody else raised.
I don’t think it does. I don’t really see why the law was needed, but then I don’t know what was going on in NC prior to the law.
Well, I think the answer for both sides who take this seriously is that they see it as part of a bigger issue. Trannies see being allowed to use the bathroom of their choice as a step towards society acknowledging that transsexualism is a legitimate gender orientation (or whatever they call it), and that men who believe themselves to be women and take steps to become women truly are women. Conservatives see this same thing, disagree with that change, and so don’t want to legitimize the cause by saying it’s ok for a man who imagines himself to be a lady to use the ladies room.
And of course plenty of people (especially parents with daughters) have come forward and said that they don’t feel safe with men going into a public bathroom that their young daughter might be using. I don’t have kids so I don’t really relate to that or want to defend it, but it’s a common thing said.
Well, in a sane society, you’d have communities/neighborhoods that had a bunch of trannies and people who like trannies, and obvious trannies would walk into whatever bathroom they liked and nobody would care. And you’d have other communities and neighborhoods where people wouldn’t be into that scene, and if a tranny happened through they would respect that the people aren’t into that scene and would use the bathroom that would cause the least fuss.
But, that’s not the society we live in. We live in the society where everybody does everything they can to torment and piss off everybody else up to the limits of what the law will allow, because instead of shared values, all we have are rights.
So, given that if you don’t pass a law you will have men with beards and big hairy chests putting on a skirt and going to the ladies room because they ‘feel like a woman today’, and given that if you do pass a law you’ll have people who look exactly like women who everybody thought were women that have to use the men’s room because technically they have a cock, people have to make an imperfect decision.
Right. People just deciding on a case by case basis what makes sense is always going to be better than a law that declares how everybody has to act in a bunch of semi-related situations.
i’ll conclude by once again presenting The Economist’s take on the issue:
N.C. cringes before the onslaught of business, sport and entertainment boycotting.
did the state bite of more than it could chew?
Only if they knuckle under. Money is money and big business wants theirs too. Mississippi is going through similar right now in the school systems. One superintendent has been reprimanded for allowing transgendered to use the bathroom of their gender life. Considering that it would be Jr. high and High school , I do not think I have an issue with it.
To my knowledge, there was no law “against” males using female bathrooms until 2016.
Human psychology at work. Males had never thought of the idea of raping females in the bathroom, nor desire to use the woman’s room, but as soon as you make it illegal, the meme has been created, and males will be all over the female bathrooms in droves. They will become the monster you created.
Or, you could spend 30 seconds on Google and confirm that actually yes, men use public women’s bathrooms to accost women with some regularity.
Or, you could spend 30 seconds and link me to the study.
What year did this occur?
What was the level of penetration?
More to the point, a 30 second google search reveals NO recorded instances of transsexuals committing crimes in public restrooms.
Men and women use each other’s bathrooms now and have as long as I can remember. You gotta go, you gotta go. Yours is blocked or locked or packed with bodies you use the next one. I have had to use a men’s room a time or two. Molesters already hide in restrooms or other places. It won’t increase or decrease because of laws or the forbidden fruit theory. Too many other things are in play in the human social rules. I just would think it is easier on parents of young kids to not be forced to explain sexuality before they or the kid is ready.
Gotta say though it would be interesting to make a woman dressed as a man that thinks she is male, use a urinal. If the other guys have to, then that person should have to. What kind of laws would be passed then or protests?