FEMINISM and ISLAMISM. Are they compatible?

The_Golden_Turd · August 30, 2016, 5:51pm

Oh you heard that Ucci, he said your forum lacks philosophical thesis. I will hold him, and you can start suckerpunching Humean.

Arminius · August 30, 2016, 11:08pm

There is a philosophical thesis, especially within the words "feminism“ and "islamism“. I mean the suffix "ism“ in each of both words. But it is not only a linguistic form, because, intellectually said, all "isms“ are based on philosophical systems. So society, government, and economics are merely the addresses of those who invent "isms“ while they use language in a metalinguistic, theoretical, philosophical way.

My main reason for opening this thread in the philosophy subforum of a philosophy forum is mainly the question how certain ILP members think about the reasons for inventing „isms“ for feminisation and islamisation. A further reason, based on the main reason (duh), is that a dscussion in the subforum "Society, Government, and Economics“ of the forum “Philosophy” is normally not as philosophical as in the subforum "Philosophy“ of the forum “Philosophy” (duh), thus I wanted to prevent a too much political(ly correct) discussion.

James_S_Saint · August 30, 2016, 11:56pm

You needed to have put that part in the OP.

Arminius · August 31, 2016, 12:04am

Yes, but now it is how it is, and that is okay, by the way.

mannequin · August 31, 2016, 10:23am

The feminists will attempt to modify Islam to make themselves compatible with it, in order to replace the patriarchy foundation with a matriarchy one. Ironically, not only is this forbidden in Islam, it is also predicted and seen as a sign of the end time, as in the hour is drawing closer. Muhammad already mentioned that they will try to reverse the roles, men will look and act like women and vice versa etc He also said there would be movements that corrupt the women. Which is safe to say that is feminism and the like. Women are on a massive power trip at the moment with world domination in their eyes, it seems… Some say feminism is a natural expression of women, but I am not sure about that anymore. Some even say that is it a massive shit test and ultimately they just want to be dominated and put back in their place, and i’m not even sure about that anymore either…because from my experience and expanding understanding, they seem super serious and determined. I can only imagine this being some sort of system agenda in an attempt to create a new world whereby they put women as the overall authority relative to how the system controls them.

I think hitler once said, if you control the women and kids, the men will follow…This is what appears to be happening, or at least increasingly so, with a backlash too where men are dropping out as response to what is happening.

I see the way Feminist Muslim women are attempting to manipulate Islamic scripture and law to their own selfish ends, almost even to lay down a foundation of female worship. For example, under the Sharia, because of the nuclear family set up, where the man goes to work and the women stay home raising and taking care of the children, rightfully, it is only fair that the man pay his way in providing for his wife and kids, deemed necessary by the sharia law.

A years ago, i read an article about the Muslim women in the UK and how they are refusing to get married. So a reporter went in to find out the reasons, he approached numerous Muslim women and all of them responding with the exact same answer. They said the Muslim men are not making enough money! You can see the arrogance and hate on their faces when saying it, they explained how they wanted this and that etc and then brought up how the man is suppose to pay for it!

What they don’t realize is that Islam is a minimalistic religion, is against accumulating wealth. Muhammad once said, my poverty is my pride. The prophets never had anything because they gave everything away, and that is used as an example to mimick as a path way to religious devotion. This is a well known thing.

Now you have narcissistic materialistic women who are obsessed, and it is an obsession, with stuff. Now they are attempting to manipulate the Muslim men using the sharia law in providing and satisfying their greedy selfish needs, as if the men have to satisfy their wimps on demand, When really it has only ever applied to the basic requirements of food, water, shelter to the most minimal level in order to maintain religious devotion and not get taken away by the material world.

It’s funny, because I thought this only existed in non religious societies, but it doesn’t…You can go to any Muslim community in the UK and the Muslim men generally dislike their women because of this, divorce is also rampant, and something very importantly i noticed, the more religious the man is, the more he follows the religion of Islam in the way Muhammad and all other prophets did, devoutly, they end up alone, single and by themselves often living a life of isolation and seclusion because of being generally rejected by women because he doesn’t reach the materialistic standard that modern women maintain.

Arminius · August 31, 2016, 11:39am

mannequin:

The feminists will attempt to modify Islam to make themselves compatible with it, in order to replace the patriarchy foundation with a matriarchy one. Ironically, not only is this forbidden in Islam, it is also predicted and seen as a sign of the end time, as in the hour is drawing closer. Muhammad already mentioned that they will try to reverse the roles, men will look and act like women and vice versa etc He also said there would be movements that corrupt the women. Which is safe to say that is feminism and the like. Women are on a massive power trip at the moment with world domination in their eyes, it seems… Some say feminism is a natural expression of women, but I am not sure about that anymore. Some even say that is it a massive shit test and ultimately they just want to be dominated and put back in their place, and i’m not even sure about that anymore either…because from my experience and expanding understanding, they seem super serious and determined. I can only imagine this being some sort of system agenda in an attempt to create a new world whereby they put women as the overall authority relative to how the system controls them.

I think hitler once said, if you control the women and kids, the men will follow…This is what appears to be happening, or at least increasingly so, with a backlash too where men are dropping out as response to what is happening.

I see the way Feminist Muslim women are attempting to manipulate Islamic scripture and law to their own selfish ends, almost even to lay down a foundation of female worship. For example, under the Sharia, because of the nuclear family set up, where the man goes to work and the women stay home raising and taking care of the children, rightfully, it is only fair that the man pay his way in providing for his wife and kids, deemed necessary by the sharia law.

A years ago, i read an article about the Muslim women in the UK and how they are refusing to get married. So a reporter went in to find out the reasons, he approached numerous Muslim women and all of them responding with the exact same answer. They said the Muslim men are not making enough money! You can see the arrogance and hate on their faces when saying it, they explained how they wanted this and that etc and then brought up how the man is suppose to pay for it!

What they don’t realize is that Islam is a minimalistic religion, is against accumulating wealth. Muhammad once said, my poverty is my pride. The prophets never had anything because they gave everything away, and that is used as an example to mimick as a path way to religious devotion. This is a well known thing.

Now you have narcissistic materialistic women who are obsessed, and it is an obsession, with stuff. Now they are attempting to manipulate the Muslim men using the sharia law in providing and satisfying their greedy selfish needs, as if the men have to satisfy their wimps on demand, When really it has only ever applied to the basic requirements of food, water, shelter to the most minimal level in order to maintain religious devotion and not get taken away by the material world.

It’s funny, because I thought this only existed in non religious societies, but it doesn’t…You can go to any Muslim community in the UK and the Muslim men generally dislike their women because of this, divorce is also rampant, and something very importantly i noticed, the more religious the man is, the more he follows the religion of Islam in the way Muhammad and all other prophets did, devoutly, they end up alone, single and by themselves often living a life of isolation and seclusion because of being generally rejected by women because he doesn’t reach the materialistic standard that modern women maintain.

Interesting.

Do you have much contact with Islamic people?
And especially:
Do you have much contact with Islamic women?

Is the Islam in fact such a minimalistic religion as you described it?

James_S_Saint · August 31, 2016, 11:49am

… worked on Americans.

Arminius · August 31, 2016, 12:06pm

That picture was taken in the USA? Really? By a Non-Islamic human? Really? If yes: Is that human still alive?

mannequin · August 31, 2016, 12:40pm

Yes, was born, brought up and still live in a predominately Muslim area.

Of course!..Even more so than what i have described. Spirituality, the elevation of man/woman to a plane where the mind is focused on the higher, non-material realities of a godly existence. Not only did Prophet Muhammad pray, but he also use to meditate in mount Hira regularly, up to a few days at a time. Islam ins’t new in the sense of a religion, but a clarification of what came before it. Muhammad isn’t the founder but rather God is. The message is and has always been the same, that there is only One God and spend your days in worship of God, in a devout manner, do regularly good deeds and maintain a spiritual balance before your return onto God.

Islam, naturally, comprises of all the Prophets in the Abrahamic tradition. Jesus being the most quoted prophet in the Quran. Jesus himself had very little, next to nothing, only having a comb and one cup to which he later gave away, often telling people to sell all their belongings and give the money to the poor…and saying things such as…it easier for camel to go through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich person to get into heaven etc as all the prophets said similar things.

The very core of the worship of God is minimalism. As the world is declared as temporary, and so chasing the world is a vain attempt to gain something that will inevitably be taken away from all. From the Islamic perspective the only things which are counted upon death is actions, words and intentions in the context of good and bad relative to the scriptures.

The modern day muslim women and men just arn’t following it correctly to due religious neglect, but rather following their own egos, ignorance, greed and selfishness and then attempting to justify it with religion, as many other so called religious people do. Like millionaire priest in the bible belt of the US etc

Arminius · August 31, 2016, 2:48pm

But you are not a Muslim. Right?

mannequin:

Is the Islam in fact such a minimalistic religion as you described it?

Of course!..Even more so than what i have described. Spirituality, the elevation of man/woman to a plane where the mind is focused on the higher, non-material realities of a godly existence. Not only did Prophet Muhammad pray, but he also use to meditate in mount Hira regularly, up to a few days at a time. Islam ins’t new in the sense of a religion, but a clarification of what came before it. Muhammad isn’t the founder but rather God is. The message is and has always been the same, that there is only One God and spend your days in worship of God, in a devout manner, do regularly good deeds and maintain a spiritual balance before your return onto God.

Islam, naturally, comprises of all the Prophets in the Abrahamic tradition. Jesus being the most quoted prophet in the Quran. Jesus himself had very little, next to nothing, only having a comb and one cup to which he later gave away, often telling people to sell all their belongings and give the money to the poor…and saying things such as…it easier for camel to go through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich person to get into heaven etc as all the prophets said similar things.

The very core of the worship of God is minimalism. As the world is declared as temporary, and so chasing the world is a vain attempt to gain something that will inevitably be taken away from all. From the Islamic perspective the only things which are counted upon death is actions, words and intentions in the context of good and bad relative to the scriptures.

The modern day muslim women and men just arn’t following it correctly to due religious neglect, but rather following their own egos, ignorance, greed and selfishness and then attempting to justify it with religion, as many other so called religious people do. Like millionaire priest in the bible belt of the US etc

They probably have a guilty conscience - according to the saying: “A guilty conscience needs no accuser”.

Interestingly, Christianity originated from a desert of the Arabian Peninsula where later the Islam also orginated from, but the former conquered the Europeans (their souls and their climate), whereas the latter did not. I think that is the main difference between the both, because the Europeans as an intelligent and industrial populace conquered the whole world, became wealthy and powerful, got a guilty conscience and the Islamic immigrants (economic refugees and conquerers). And this Islamic immigrants - accompanied by other immigrants and the European feminists - shall stop the said European development. That is the idea behind feminisation, immigration, islamisation. The Europeans become more and more feminine/feministic and then - via immigration - more and more islamic/islamistic too - and the result will be the greatest chaos of the last 6000 years or even of all times.

Mictlantecuhtli · August 31, 2016, 2:59pm

“In Sweden at first I was appalled by all the rapes of us Swedish women especially as a feminist but later I discovered that these rapes are justified in that it makes up for the white guilt of us Swedes where possibly it might be morally justified on the part of Muslim men. Now I’ve converted to Islam and wear a Hijab everyday. Everyday is a real struggle reconciling my western feminist beliefs with Islam but slowly I am being able to. Down with the sexist white Christian Swedish patriarchy! Allah Akbar!”

Arminius · August 31, 2016, 11:00pm

The one who said that seems to make money (thus: to get recognition and power) out of that politically correct text or/and to suffer from the Stockholm syndrome.

Another politically correct text with the following question as its title: “Why are there high rape crimes in Sweden, Norway and Denmark compared to the rest of the world?”.

One of the politically incorrect and thus forbidden questions is: “Why are Vikings no longer allowed to be Vikings?”.

Pandora · September 1, 2016, 2:49am

mannequin:

A years ago, i read an article about the Muslim women in the UK and how they are refusing to get married. So a reporter went in to find out the reasons, he approached numerous Muslim women and all of them responding with the exact same answer. They said the Muslim men are not making enough money! You can see the arrogance and hate on their faces when saying it, they explained how they wanted this and that etc and then brought up how the man is suppose to pay for it!

What they don’t realize is that Islam is a minimalistic religion, is against accumulating wealth. Muhammad once said, my poverty is my pride. The prophets never had anything because they gave everything away, and that is used as an example to mimick as a path way to religious devotion. This is a well known thing.

Now you have narcissistic materialistic women who are obsessed, and it is an obsession, with stuff. Now they are attempting to manipulate the Muslim men using the sharia law in providing and satisfying their greedy selfish needs, as if the men have to satisfy their wimps on demand, When really it has only ever applied to the basic requirements of food, water, shelter to the most minimal level in order to maintain religious devotion and not get taken away by the material world.

It’s funny, because I thought this only existed in non religious societies, but it doesn’t…You can go to any Muslim community in the UK and the Muslim men generally dislike their women because of this, divorce is also rampant, and something very importantly i noticed, the more religious the man is, the more he follows the religion of Islam in the way Muhammad and all other prophets did, devoutly, they end up alone, single and by themselves often living a life of isolation and seclusion because of being generally rejected by women because he doesn’t reach the materialistic standard that modern women maintain.

Yes, blame the women! First, one should have compared the cost of raising a family in the Middle East vs places like UK. The costs are higher in UK, and society is largely individualistic and based on materialism. If you know that you can’t provide a proper environment for the family and support it, then don’t have one! Period. The attitude, “let God provide” is really just negligence, in my view. And then you get messed up kids go around hacking everyone with an axe because they don’t feel like part of it and don’t know where they belong. If you know that society you’re moving into is materialistic then either don’t move there, or adjust your attitude/lifestyle accordingly.

Secondly, Muslim women in Europe are isolated and don’t have the necessary social support (extended family members) that they would have had back home. The Muslim woman’s power and influence lay in the social family sphere, and not you’d take that away from her. And this only worsens the situation, because not only you don’t have enough money, you’re in a foreign culture and have no one to talk to, or reach out to (which opens the door to other social ills like domestic violence). I don’t’ know what’s going on through these men’s minds, but you can’t just move across the world into a completely different society and expect that things will work out the same way. The men are following their religious ideals and drag their women behind them, like a dog on a leash thinking they will adjust and make everything work out somehow. I don’t think they even consider the needs of their women, which are probably not much at this point and quite reasonable in my opinion, but the denial of which, over time, will only back fire on these men, as well as European Islamic culture as a whole, as women will begin to turn away from it. And men, not seeing their own mistake, or being blind to the reality of the situation they put themselves and their women into, will only blame women or the modern society for it.

mannequin · September 1, 2016, 3:19am

It has absolutely nothing to do with raising a family in the middle east or UK, the location is irrelevant to the context of minimalism. What should be provided for is basic food, water, shelter,clothing and exceptional things for educational purposes. The concept can apply everywhere, Islam is a world religion.

I understand what you’re saying in terms of the standards of cost, but that does not automatically equate to materialism nor does it negate the optional choices you have in choosing the cheapest route.

They can, they work, have money, even some of them having their own businesses, to which they can adequately provided for their family in the context of minimalism according to the religion

Only the women are not accepting this standard as they simply want more… it isn’t about providing adequately, it’s about fortune, greed, living lavishly and shopping culture. Which is forbidden. Get past it.

All the muslims that I know are all born here and raised here. Your argument fails, you make the assumption that all who are here should just automatically accept a materialistic standard, even non religious people protest regularly that the prices are too high for things… Why should anybody just accept these absurd costs for things. No, there must be a response.

Secondly, Muslim women in Europe are isolated and don’t have the necessary social support (extended family members) that they would have had back home. The Muslim woman’s power and influence lay in the social family sphere, and not you’d take that away from her. And this only worsens the situation, because not only you don’t have enough money, you’re in a foreign culture and have no one to talk to, or reach out to (which opens the door to other social ills like domestic violence). I don’t’ know what’s going on through these men’s minds, but you can’t just move across the world into a completely different society and expect that things will work out the same way. The men are following their religious ideals and drag their women behind them, like a dog on a leash thinking they will adjust and make everything work out somehow. I don’t think they even consider the needs of their women, which are probably not much at this point and quite reasonable in my opinion, but the denial of which, over time, will only back fire on these men, as well as European Islamic culture as a whole, as women will begin to turn away from it. And men, not seeing their own mistake, or being blind to the reality of the situation they put themselves and their women into, will only blame women or the modern society for it.

Yeah nice little subtle threats there, basically if men do not provide for the disgusting parasitical greed that women have, trying to turn men into nothing but a resourceful utility to provide for every whim and desire on a material level, despite it going against the actually religion they claim to be apart of, then what? ooo they will turn away and drop out, Good, DO IT!..Stay away from the religion!

Pandora · September 1, 2016, 4:19am

You are placing your family into a materialistic society with which it will always have contact with. You may influence your children, or grandchildren, but can you protect your following generations from being affected by materialism? No, you can’t. Somewhere down the line there is going to be a conflict, and one will have to give way.

Right, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’d still be inside a materialistic society - a part of it. If you deny it, you’d be living in a secluded fantasy world.

Are you sure it’s forbidden? Because Muslims living in rich Gulf countries are taking lavish lifestyle to a whole-new-level.

mannequin · September 1, 2016, 5:15am

Yes, and materialistic capitalistic feministic systems will fail and be destroyed.

Until that fantasy world becomes a general reality, which it is, increasingly so.

Yes, it is forbidden. The so called follower’s behavior is not a representation of the religion itself. The prophets referred to these people as hypocrites, quite clearly. But you’re free to go down that road if you like.

Arminius · September 1, 2016, 2:24pm

@ All.

Do not forget that feminism does not automatically stand for all women. Moreover: not all feminists are women, and not all women are feminists.

But what about Islamism? For what does Islamism not automatically stand? Moreover: are not all Islamists Musllims, and are not all Muslims Islamists?

In this case we probably have to adjudicate on both islamism and feminism in the same manner.

The more globalism - materialism in the sense of both techno-creditism (formerly known as capitalism) and socialism (formerly known as communism) - expands, the more forms of reaction and resistance it gets until the great chaos. Feminism and Islamism are religious “ism” examples for those forms of reaction and resistance.

Pandora · September 1, 2016, 5:24pm

According to Quran, it is an attitude of arrogance that may result from lavish lifestyle that is forbidden, not the lifestyle itself.

But Allah سبحانه وتعالى hates the haughtiness, arrogance and transgression that may result from a life of ease. So Allah سبحانه وتعالى hates the life of ease if it produced haughtiness, transgression, arrogance and tyranny. Since a life of ease and comfort by the abundant wealth could lead some people to arrogance, tyranny and haughtiness; that is it creates Taraf in them, Islam prohibited that type of luxury. So Islam prevented corruption if it resulted from the abundance of wealth and children, making people arrogant and tyrannical. Islam prohibited that strongly.

So when it is said that Taraf is Haram it does not mean the life of ease is Haram, it rather means that arrogance which results from the easy use of wealth is Haram, as Taraf would mean linguistically, and as luxury (Taraf) would mean from the verses of the Qur’an.

khilafah.com/is-it-forbidden … -in-islam/

The only people who would worry about it are the ones who are most likely to lose control over themselves and let the riches go to their heads. And that is a psychological matter, having to do with self-image and self-worth.

mannequin · September 2, 2016, 4:25am

And is the arrogance of materialistic women not on full display?

It is true that it is deemed acceptable for somebody to increase their wealth by legitimately earning it, even so if that aids in ease of living as an exchange, but to create a materialistic society which doesn’t really have any spiritual basis is forbidden. The prophets of those theologies are deemed to be the best examples to be followed, they all shun a materialistic life, they gave everything away and instructed people in doing so, in order to prevent such arrogance from rising as it leads to a pathway away from a spiritual essence…the majority people do not fall into the exception.

The bottom line is, a feministic materialistic alcohol fueled naked culture has met its match, and Islam is a worthy opponent in challenging this, not only that but the entire world is tired of the ignorance that women are displaying and their strange obsessive determination in doing so, and their bizarre egoistic narcissistic need to be worshiped.

You can literally go anywhere in the world and find the majority of men looking at women suspiciously, refusing to be in relationships with them or getting married to them. Men by large are no longer putting up with women’s nonsense and antics and they are increasingly walking away.

and laughably enough, that’s all they really have to do, is drop out and boycott relationships, marriage, loyalty & commitment, fatherhood, workforce, high standard living. This is a war not just towards women but the system too.

Men know it’s working because we see the convenience of how feminism dramatically supports multiculturalism attempting to import foreign men to replace the ones in the west who are refusing to fuel the idealistic diseases women are choosing to ruthlessly maintain. but little do they know that everything i stated is generally known by men all over the world, so those men who are coming are not entering in a naive unaware manner, and are not providing and contributing in a way where the system and women expected them too.

All this really only provides women with four general options.

Denounce feminism and apologize profusely to all your native men, attempting to patch things up, return back to a traditional family structure and seeking protection from the coming islamic domination. (which imo is too late, men are not accepting this option, despite the fact of the denunciation of feminism by many women)
Embrace lesbianism, single motherhood or just a single life style, materialism, fun etc (which factually lowers the birth rate of western women where muslim family have numerous children out breeding western families dramatically.
Conversion to Islam.
False conversion to Islam, then attempting to redefine and modify Islam into being compatible with their feminism agendas.

All options are being regularly selected by women. With no.2 the most currently selected, no.1 dramatically increasing, no 3, steadily increasing, no.4 starting to increase

Pandora · September 2, 2016, 4:05pm

You can worship money or you can worship a deity called Allah. Isn’t holy righteousness also not a form of arrogance? Who or what dominates the human mind and behavior?

It can also be looked the other way, too, that Islam just reached its hands into what will likely bite them off.

Yes, the entire world wants to see women return back to the times when they had nor rights. Sorry, not gonna happen.

You shouldn’t use yourself as a world standard. Men, generally, have quite low standards when it comes to their women needs. Exceptionally low, in fact, especially when the other option that is left to them is loneliness. Better something than nothing, right?

Yes, it will be a real blow to modern women who chose to spend their time in advancing their careers, and not needing men in the first place.

And Islam is the answer?

Are you talking about Muslim immigrants/refugees? Let’s see how many generations their lifestyle will last in a modern society.

Oh geez… a man with hurt feeelings…should this apology also come with a box of tampons…to soak up all those emotions bleeding over?

I don’t know why you’re assuming that traditional family structures do not exist, there are still plenty of stay-at-home moms and working fathers.

There will be no Islamic domination. Islam will self-destruct in time.

Well, if men cannot or will not stick around to provide for their children (because materialism is bad but fucking around is okay because a man has his needs, dammit) this could be the remaining option.

In my opinion, people who embrace foreign or exotic traditions likely have some unresolved personal issues. If you want to preserve traditional family structure/lifestyle, why wouldn’t you propose that people embrace Christianity instead? It’s more in synch with Western traditions.

I don’t think this is necessary; I say, just let time take its course. Just a mere proximity of two radically contrasting cultures will make one give way. And I don’t think that 14th century mentality will survive in the 21st century modernism. Modernism an equal opportunity meat/meme grinder.