If Islam and West finally openly declare war, how will Islam be defeated? Which kind of things would cause its defeat?
Will the strong and independent women finally do something to prove their strength and independence by fighting off Islamists with their own, female-designed weapons and tactics? Will feminists be the main strategists and soldiers in the war? Lol.
There are 2 things which make the West superior to Islamists, both a consequence of higher average intelligence of Westerners and masculine values and thinking: 1) superior strategy and tactics, 2) superior weaponry
Nothing to do with any of the leftist, feminist, liberal bullshit. Not only do those not help preserve the West, they destroy the internal integrity of the West, making it more difficult to defend the system against outside threats.
If the hands of Islam do get bitten off, it’s not the leftism, feminism, and liberalism that will do the biting. Their role would be that of a rot in the tooth that does the biting.
As for the “I don’t need no men”, do you also refuse to stop using things invented by men, constructed by men, maintained by men…? No?
Sheesh, ILP is so densely saturated with predictable delusion that I read one post in a thread and I lose all interest in reading the rest of the exchange, or browsing the rest of the site.
My point was that even without war Islam would be doomed. And even with war, we are not comparing 13th century Christian Europe to 13th Century Muslim Middle East. The West has evolved and will not be devolving back to Middle Ages. That was my point. Islam will have to catch up/evolve in order to survive, and that could also be its end. Islam’s attempt to drag Western Values down to its level will be unsuccessful. Not because I said so, or because I want it so, but I just don’t see it happening. The West has been through too much, historically, to devolve back in time.
I don’t think such terms as "righteousness " is a relative subjective position when it is outlined and objectively defined by a religion. If a man lives a righteous life in according to the religion, which encourages him to give money to the poor, do charitable works, be kind etc…You can redefine the term if you want to and call those acts arrogance…
Maybe you’re referring to pride?..Which in that case, i remember reading there were people at the time of Jesus who use to commit righteous deeds openly and tell people what they were doing so they can obtain a status among the people…to which Jesus replied by calling them hypocrites and he said they have already received their reward, meaning the local status and praise they have obtained, the reason being because, although the act was righteous in nature, the intent behind it was arrogance and wasn’t sincere. According to the Abrahamic tradition intention is something which is judged, along with act and word.
Time will tell.
I’m not sure that is the case, when it comes to women’s bizarre egoistic narcissistic need to be worshiped, it appears to me that men are turning away completely, not waiting for you to return back to previous times, in fact, i would even go as far as saying that EVEN if women made such a suggestion in returning back, men wouldn’t at this point, not after such levels of exposure into female’s nature.
But like you said, I’m sure they wouldn’t anyway, and it definitely doesn’t seem that wouldn’t happen on any global level thus far.
Women are free to continue.
I’m not, I’m not involving myself in anything of this, not as much as you have convinced yourself I am
Indeed, it will add a whole new level of depth to the situation, a new level of exposure into the relationship between women and the system.
Hmm I’m not sure I believe in an absolute “answer” in the context you’re suggesting, what i said was just an observation of what is clearly visible.
Meaning? If you’re referring to Western lifestyle and the cultural temptation that comes with that in the context of integration, ive already witnessed a few generations and they almost always never actually integrate at all…it’s beyond me if you think otherwise…
Personally, I’m not particularly interested in whether they denounce feminism or not, as I have just said, I’m just a watcher…what I was saying is what I am seeing, the continuation of the pattern turns into an option. There are many women who have denounced feminism and apologized to men, and wish to return back to more of a traditional structure, especially during all the rape sprees around the west, heavily motivated by fear and seeking protection.
Never said there wasn’t…but looking at the increasing divorce and single mother stats it’s pretty clear the direction in which it is going.
Don’t be so sure about that. You might want to take a look at Islam’s history.
It is a well known fact, that by large men never use to fuck around, that was something that was unheard of in the past, and the further you go back the greater the punishment for such acts was, both on men and women, as a way of securing the family marriage unit and construction of society.
The “fucking around” is a male response to the lack of a secure traditionalism that governed by virtues, moral, principles, vows,law etc. I’m not sure you can have your cake and eat it too. Interestingly enough, when you free the women from the men, you also free the men from the women.
Hmm I would agree with the first part of that.
Christianity is foreign and stems from very similar places Islam and Judaism stem from. I have not proposed anybody should embrace anything. People can do whatever they want.
Ironically, real Christianity isn’t that far away from Islam, but I imagine you are referring to heavily modified Christianity where homosexuals are married in churches, where women are bishops, where Christian women are tattooed wearing mini skirts revealing their panties, completely intoxicated with one boob hanging out of the bra as she bending down in a porch way of a shop taking a piss on a Friday night? I bet you think Jesus has blonde hair and blue eyes as well, don’t you…
You mean 6th century, You seem to think the past was disgustingly terrible and evil or something, it has its faults… but it is way worse now, times have actually regressed a lot since previous civilizations. Innovation is not necessarily a good thing nor is technological advancement…sure there’s benefits to it, but it is way more destructive if anything.
But yes, let’s see, let time take its course.
Well, the visibility of the expansion of Islam is quite clear.
It’s well known thing that…
How will it be doomed?
Middle ages were awesomeness…at a time of war, I would much rather be in the middle ages than this time period, especially with all the nuclear capability they have now.
Down? what are these values you’re speaking of? Modernity has turned the west into a fucking shit hole! The only fun thing here is observing the decay and watching it all happen… that’s what keeps me here.
Every society is ultimately doomed. If Islam succeeded in its goal of conquering everything, eventually, with nothing left to conquer, they would enforce peace because the then current status quo would benefit them. This would be followed by a short time of prosperity and then decay will begin. When there is no longer war and conflict, and the society is already protected and provided for by men, men become redundant because they or their ancestors have already fulfilled the masculine role in society, and now the only task left is to maintain it, which requires much less effort than it did to make everything in the first place. Females take note of this and lose all respect for men, because what men contribute to females (protection from the natural world and other males/provision of resources and shelter) is now given cheaply or even for free, while what females provide to males (opportunity at reproduction, sex) is not so, which tilts the sexual dynamics in the female’s favor. You can notice that this is the exact thing happening in the West. And the same thing would most likely befall the Muslim world, and eventually cause them to collapse internally in my hypothetical scenario. Though the idea of Muslims conquering everything and removing all other external threats is very, very far-fetched to begin with, no human society so far has managed to do that, or to even come close to doing that.
I would be surprised by your misunderstanding of evolution if it wasn’t shared by almost every modern. Evolution isn’t linear and has no goal in mind. It isn’t constant improvement of organisms towards some perfect state. So even if something devolves (meaning, goes back to a state similar to a previous one in history), this by itself does not make it inferior. This is because we do not constantly face more and more challenging environments which require us to become increasingly superior. Instead, cycles of growth and decay happen, and after one generation is successful the next generations will become spoiled because they don’t have to do as much due to how successful the previous generation has been, so they will start slowly draining the society of energy until the society weakens enough, or collapses, and another successful generation emerges which fixes everything once again. If there is an external threat however, there is the danger of a society/culture being erased completely by being conquered.
Yes. There is always coincidence too in history, but currently the tendency is pretty clear. This tendency is a great chaos.
Exactly. They stem from very similar places, if not from the exact same geographical place. In any case it is the desert of the Arabian Peninsula.
But religiously, as a belief system, and especially ethically, Christianity is nevertheless very much different from Islam and Judaism. In this sense Christianity is very much more like Buddhism.
Islam’s ultimate goal is the memetic propagation of Islam. The men and women are mere means to that goal, and their needs, wants, feelings are thus subordinate to it.
Feminism’s ultimate goal is short-term happiness for women, I say short-term because feminists don’t have any deeper insights about anything and so they don’t realize how certain things can backfire in the long-term.
So no, they are not compatible.
Feminism, marxism, liberalism, humanism, and similar ideologies are the kind of ideologies you want your enemies to have, because it makes them soft and weak, vulnerable to conquest. This is the only sense in which Islamism is compatible with feminism - feminism weakens the West for Islamic conquest. Watch the video below:
Yes, by a religion created by a man, with psychological motives and needs…not god.
My take is that Jesus himself was not able to handle the harshness of reality, and business of survival, and since he got the short end of the stick in his life himself, his motives were not all that different from all the suicidal end-of-the-worlders, bring everything down! He was the spiritual Che of his time.
Yes.
Yes, this is the typical person with personal issues that I had in mind; their enclosed reactive psychologies will always be attracted to foreign influences which are only seeking to promote their own interests. The weak/compromised are first casualties of foreign influence. They are collateral damage. But when comparing the two sides, I still think there are more Muslim people who leave Islam and embrace secularism/modernism, and will be more so in the future. Technological advancement will aid this. No matter how much pride the Islam inoculates into its children, they will not withstand the seduction of modernity.
They will - it’s a gradual process.
Sorry, as a woman I’m having difficulty imagining this. Are you sure you’re not just wishful thinking out loud here? I am pretty sure women can stand up for themselves if need be, and considering what she has to deal with, this should not be a problem. Now, if a woman gets wasted in a bar and then get raped, then maybe she should reconsider her own decisions, if she cares for her well-being. Any reasonable woman would. Otherwise, she would have to admit that it was her own fault.
Okay, let’s see how Islam will weather the rapid technological advancement and its simultaneous commodification in this globalized environment. I don’t think we had this before in history. In the future, I can see Islam being reduced to a fashion statement or a lifestyle choice, not unlike Yoga or New Age lifestyle today. In a globalized environment where isolationism will become ever more difficult, if not downright impossible, it will morph into a social status statement, which will force it to keep up with society and its evolution. It will also develop into a marketing niche, and I see it happening already. In other words, it will become commodified, like everything else. The symbols may remain, the hijabs, the prayer, the crescent, some of the lifestyle, etc., but the meaning will fade, and everything will be reduced to a gesture likely symbolizing social status or its own subculture. It will be a religion in the same way as Buddhism is religion in the West - which to me is nothing more than a yuppie lifestyle - a cultural fashion statement of sorts. I can see the same happening to Islam.
I am of opposite view.
This is beginning to sound like a marketing pitch. Yes, men want to have their cake and eat it too. That’s was the point; and it’s harder for wives to do the same, because of their traditional roles.
And? Who benefits the most from this in our modern world?
I had Islamic Golden Age in mind.
No matter how you see it, we are not going back in time for those ‘better’ days.
It’s too behind times for the modern world. It will become corrupted and destroyed, or morphed beyond recognition, and it will happen from inside.
And here we have another example of a man wanting to have his cake and eating it, too.
It is changing - it has its benefits and it has its costs, and yes, both are high. And if you don’t see the benefits then know that you are using them regardless. And also consider that you, yourself, may be the product of those benefits. At least that you must accept.
The Islam’s methods as they are right now are waaay too crude for the sensibilities of modern societies. It’s like asking modern societies to swallow rocks after centuries of eating refined foods. As it is Islam may be suitable for backwards societies somewhere in Southeast Asia or Africa that have only developed to a certain degree because to them it would be seen as an improvement. To appeal to moderns Islam will have to adapt, but in that adaptation, it will put itself in jeopardy.
Is it not hilarious when weaklings call anything that threatens their weakness “crude”, thereby implying that they dislike it not because they are too weak to deal with it, but because it is below their refined tastes.
You can spot this kind of cowardice and dishonesty easily because weaklings tend to have no taste, exposing that it is not because of refined taste that they dislike the thing denoted by the word “crude”.
The intent behind this deceit is to hide their own weakness while simultaneously condemning and trying to defeat with words what they know they cannot deal with and defeat in reality, with actions.
The highly sophisticated Western masses with refined tastes that Pandora is referring to:
There are things about West that are refined, but not those this delusional twat is thinking about.
Not sure how this fits in to what we are talking about, but still, that’s just an opinion, i was talking about a word defined by the perspective of religion since that’s what we were talking about. You’re free to make declared absolute statements like that if you want to though.
Hmm I’m not sure if i would consider it to be a collateral damage, you would have to look at the initial condition first and then observe the results the impact has. That woman is probably a lot happier than most western women, in the sense that she is married, probably has a family, community support and friendships/religious sisters, eats better and fasts regular (lot of benefits the body) Prayer/meditation (benefits for the mind). More time to use, not wasting it on pointless shopping and binge drinking etc…she even said it herself, that she lives in a broken society.
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Lol where are you getting that from?..it almost sounds like you’re just making up random statements now…hmm perhaps wishful thinking?
Don’t take this personally, but do you have mental health issues?
I bet you have difficulty in imagining a lot things, as a woman…but definitely no difficulty in convincing yourself of things…
Are you delusional? women get beat up and raped all the time, world wide…ok yeah yeah, i get it you’re from the tough camp of feminism, we are tough, strong , independent and can take on the whole world rawwrr… sweetheart, this is boring old news, it becomes tedious after awhile…
Not really, especially if the Sharia is implemented. Dubai seems to be doing fine under such intense levels of technological advancement.
Yeah, there is no doubt that is the western approach to religion and its ultimate goal…but i don’t see it happening because the way Islam in constructed as a religion is rooted in firm belief and obedience, with a law that establishes the religion as an ideology/way of life…it’s discriminating at its very core all the way to the surface. What you’re saying would only make Islam completely redundant and pointless which defeats the point of belief inthe first place, people do not enter islam to be chilled out or to have a social life etc. Islam/muslims are a fighting force all over the world, and by the mere fact you take all this personally shows that it worries you.
I dunno, you tell me? How do you define benefits?..
I bet you think everything is infinite don’t you…and this whole thing is on a progressive route towards a magnificent utopia…
Why do you keep saying things like that…you seem to think the modern world has amazing things to offer?..what exactly are you referring to when you say “modern world”
what?..
Hmm people seem pretty sickly to me, dumb, lazy, obese, war, pollution, more causalities, over population,dysgenics … all over the world now since modernity has been globalized…
As far as I am concerned, there is no reason to ask them for their apology, opinion, permission, or anything really. They will have a choice of submitting to the system and its rules, or, alternatively, they will be decapitated, if they are aggressive and disobedient to the end. No bullshit games.
I don’t, personally, but just something I have noticed and observed them doing, usually triggered by large migration and the fear of rape that comes with it, so a lot of them start to jump ship back towards their own native men and pretend that the past 6 decades of feminism never happened…so it’s an option i guess.
