This is question-begging. The closest we've ever had to a free market is the market we have now, and it indicates otherwise. So we have at least one data point that says what you're asserting is false.
hmm i don't think we're on the same page. what you said earlier was that the 'work' that the capitalist performs in managing his business is... wait lemme go find the quote. right here: "I earn more because I'm taking on more risk, working longer hours, and
my time and effort is worth more to others.
so if your time and effort is in performing those tasks that stacey lou gets a salary/wage to perform (when she's hired by someone to do so), why would your time and effort 'be worth more to others'? what makes the work of performing those tasks more valuable to consumers only when a capitalist does it, and not when stacey lou does it? see where this is going? the total net value of joe bob's business, the thing that makes it 'worth something' to consumers here, is the resulting product it provides to them. and if we divide that product up into all the various kinds of labor involved in producing it, each part of its production would have its relative value. guy running the machine, guy loading the deck, guy sweeping the floor, guy supplying the line with parts, guy stocking the shipment warehouse, guy cleaning the employee bathroom, ... and stacey lou, who does all the things the company owner used to do himself before he hired her. each of the parts contributes to the whole process of production and has its relative value. now why and how would the relative value of what stacey lou is doing suddenly be 'worth more to others'
if a capitalist is doing it instead?
The only evidence we have says that the outcome would be that the people who do the coordinating, planning, initiating of activity, and bearing of risk would be paid significantly more than the people joining part A and part B. Do you think that a competitive market that aggregates information to set prices won't reveal that running a business is an uncommon skill that produces a ton of value and is very difficult to do well?
i'm not sure i understand the question. running a business is uncommon because business owners are a minority... not because running a business is an 'uncommon skill'. you can make just about anyone a business owner if you gave them a calculator and a note pad. nothing to it. and 'difficult to do well' is like a hasty generalization. what if bob can do easily what john struggles to do? how do we quantify 'difficult'?
i don't think the aggregate information revealed by the market tells us that business owners are a special type of people that possess skills workers can't have. of course, business and production is incredibly important and often difficult to get right... but what does this have to do with that class of person called the 'owner'? 'owner' is just a word that basically means one has the legal right to control the fate of some material thing. doesn't mean he's some kind of special addition to the chain of production that adds value to it. he doesn't. he's just 'there'. stacey lou can do everything he does... and incidentally, for a fraction of the cost... because stacey lou sure as hell doesn't get as much a capitalist x 'gives himself' when he does it instead.
btw, what kind of name is 'stacey lou', anyway? did i do that, or did you? i can't even remember.
Every voluntary economic exchange in a complex economy entails both parties making money (or rather, value) off the other party's labor.
holy smokes dude. for a fantastically smart fellow you sure missed one of the simplest of details. profiting from someone else means to pay someone an amount that will be less than the amount made from the sale of what was made. if you are not doing this - which is the very definition of the capitalist - then you are not 'making money off other party's labor'.
OK, so say I invent something, and want to sell it. It's complex and will require lots of materials, suppliers, workers, etc. to get the finished product. The workers aren't going to spontaneously organize to get all that set up, so I reach out to them. I take out a loan under my name, mortgage my house, and commit to certain orders from suppliers and hire some workers. Do these workers now seize what I've organized under my name, under my credit, with my house backing it? Is that what you mean by the 'abolishment of private business': the seizure of the products of my labor?
frankly i don't know what the reds would do to ya in such a situation. i'm not entirely sure how the transition would be made regarding how and what you get to keep. but along with the seizure of your business would probably come the elimination of much of your credit debts... as these are debts to yet more capitalists. the revolution would literally level the whole playing field and hit the reset button on everything. you wouldn't be obligated to finish your mortgage because the bank that gave it to you would also be seized. same with all your payments to any other creditors. there carleas would be, a clean slate, nothing owed, and on his way to his job which he absolutely loves on a bright sunny morning. the new carleas, the new work ethic, the new man.
The fourth paragraph talks about shortening the work week in response to innovation. Let's say I'm a worker, and I've got expensive tastes. Some innovation shortens the work week, but I would rather keep working longer and make more money. Can I? Or is the idea that in our socialist utopia I've already "changed [myself]" away from my expensive tastes, and would not want to work longer and earn more? What if I just like working? What if I want to work even less, can I work part time and just live simply, or have we all decided to want the same things so that personal preferences for how much we work and consume are no longer an issue to be solved?
i thought the answer to this would be without saying. there is always something to do; if someone wishes to work more, they'd consult with the worker's party who would then decide how to best make use of this desire to work. they'd putcha somewhere, believe me. and you'd be able to work your little heart out, comrade.
He is saying that the capitalists are providing jobs that wouldn't otherwise exist if not for the idea that one could get rich by providing those jobs.
yeah there's a grey area here that's difficult to navigate. there are things that are necessary commodities, and then there are luxuries that aren't necessary... like the wacky wall walker. remember those? some dude got rich off that idea.
however, why couldn't the state take the same risk and come up with some novel product like this for the same reason? who knows... maybe the people would like to have a spatula that talks to you... let's try the idea and start making them. if we fail, we've lost nothing; we simply re-allocate the resources we use to produce the talking spatula to some other use. but what happens when a capitalist fails at such a venture? a small disaster for hundreds if not thousands of workers.
anyway, don't think that people need to have the motivation of 'getting rich' to come up with marketable ideas. there's plenty of shit that needs to be made, and plenty of space and time to be used in creating novel ideas which may or may not be successful. only difference is, in a socialist economy, nobody takes a bullet when an idea fails. there is an immediate rebound. none of this unemployment shit and scrounging around for another job. how many people with degrees end up working at mcdonalds because they can't find a job? in a socialist society, very special attention is paid to your skill set, and you WILL be put where you are most able to perform according to your skills. if you don't want to do this... then go get a job at mcdonalds. but at least you are given the option to decide, rather than having to take the job because you are not given the opportunity to do what you do best. an astrophysicist working at harris teeter is some bullshit that would only happen in capitalism.