Zimmerman Trial

i don’t place much stock in Zimmerman’s account - or at least i take it with a LOT of salt - he was trying to beat a murder charge, after all - and lie detectors work maybe half the time.

That said, i don’t necessarily think it was murder either. Like you, i think it was at the very least foolhardy and stupid and deserves legal consequences (if only to deter others from similar actions). i also think America’s gun culture and the idiot laws that it spawns (like “stand your ground”) deserve a big part of the blame. The media is what it is - and it always makes a convenient scapegoat - but ultimately, it’s the only source most people outside the courtroom have for what happened that night.

i do think he was profiled - but i suppose we can disagree on that.

Anyway, thanks for hashing things out with me Statik - always a pleasure to talk to you.

I suppose my question to her would be: Guilty of what?

It’s not about the portrayal of blacks in the media though. It’s about groups of primarily black kids robbing people. The case is about race only insofar as race relates to the conditions that produce criminals, like poverty. Like I said, I think it’s a cultural thing. And it’s something that black people contribute to.

But why do you think he was looking for a confrontation? I think it’s more accurate to say he assumed the risk of confrontation.

I agree. I just don’t think the shot was meant to be fatal, so I’m kind of left asking myself if he was justified in pulling the trigger. What happened after that seems incidental, but no less important.

I don’t think he pressed the gun to his chest. I think he basically drew the gun and fired straight in front of him while Martin was on top of him. Zimmerman claimed that Martin was on top of him and reached for the gun, telling Zimmerman “you’re going to die tonight motherfucker”. I guess he feared what would happen if Martin got that gun. That part is dubious to me.

You too UPF. Thanks for keeping the conversation constructive.

I agree with everything you said above. But I think “profiled” can be a tricky word. I think Martin loosely fit the description of kids who had actually been committing crimes in the neighborhood. It’s just an unfortunate fact that they happened to be black males dressed in certain ways. I think we ought to be asking ourselves why that is rather than focusing all our attention on why Zimmerman profiled Martin. So, yeah, I agree he was profiled, just not based solely on race. When I hear about profiling, I generally picture someone looking for an excuse to harass someone else. I don’t think Zimmerman profiled Martin in that sense.

Polygraphs are inadmissible as evidence for a reason.

Guys trying to beat charges typically lie.

Fortunately I’ve said nothing to suggest otherwise.

Statik, i was going to take a break from this particular discussion, but you raise some good points which i thought deserved response:

A fair question. i wonder if she would even have an answer.

Oh, it’s very much about the portrayal of blacks in the media. Groups of White guys in suits rob people all the time too, but they usually get off much easier, and we don’t as a result automatically assume that every white guy in a suit is selling shoddy mortgage based securities, even though white guys in suits do have a recent history of doing stuff like that.

But you’re right that black people do contribute to it - even profit off it - and it’s self-defeating. But that doesn’t mean it’s fair or justified to react to someone who looks like Martin as though they are a burglar.

If he wasn’t looking for a confrontation, he wouldn’t have gotten out of the car and started following Martin, it’s that simple. i don’t believe he was just trying to keep Martin in sight - he was told he didn’t need to do that. i think he was looking to catch Martin and be the hero when the cops arrived. And to do that, he would obviously have to confront him.

Dubious to me as well. i was under the impression that forensic evidence indicated that the gun was pressed to Martin’s chest at the time the gun was fired - but perhaps i’m misinformed? i still find it difficult to imagine how he could draw the gun and fire straight in front of him if Martin was on top of him - especially if Martin was also reaching for the gun at the same time.

People want all guilty people to go to prison and all innocent people to get off. Fortunately the law recognizes that there is going to have to be a significant set of people who are acquitted who may in fact be guilty. The law is supposed to err on that side - it has often leaned the other way, for example dependent on the race of the accused. Zimmerman may be guilty of something criminal, but we don’t know, so the judgement was probably a good one - given what I have heard. This does not mean he is innocent. And he was reckless. No way someone I thought was a criminal who I had seen from my car could have gotten me on the ground. Not because I am superhero, but because I would have been back in the car before he got within leaping range. This avoids having to shoot someone who might do more than punch me but might not. And that is working from Zimmerman’s account. To my mind at best the guy is reckless and showed very poor judgment qualities that should preclude gun ownership.

Then why criticize Zimmerman, isn’t your issue with nature?

Stuart, are going to call me a hypocrite if I don’t present a unified ethical theory that’s universalizable across all instances of human behavior?

But, your not even trying, just try harder!

It’s like Kanye West says, “when you try hard, that’s when you die hard”.

KW: “I’m on a pursuit of awesomeness, excellence is the bare minimum.”

Smears, I want to see excellence in all your future posts.

KW: “I don’t want a cookie for this. I want to become the best.”

I want you, Smears, to become the best.

Smears is the best, overall. i mean, some people are better than him at certain things, but in terms of awesome points, Smears has a perfect score.

I’m not sure what’s going on here, but if I"m being complimented, thanks.

Stat, I just watched the movie, “snow on the bluff”. If you live near people like that guy, then I totally understand your lens and your entire position makes sense.

The black guys who live around me are all well spoken and polite and they don’t really shoot at people or anything like that.

Nothing’s going on that i know of - well, a little hyperbole, maybe. i think you’re cool and funny and weird, or your posts are anyway. i don’t want to be your boyfriend or anything, though.

Are you female?

Not last time i checked

Word.