Is this Circular ?
andviewtopic.php?f=3&t=179254Cause and Effect ?
Like when it is said that Unemployment is due to high taxes and such: the goal is really less taxes, not to solve Unemployment and such even because no one can ever demonstrate that connection, or better yet, everyone will demonstrate the connection they want according to what examples they take or just because and such. Because Unemployment is an intractable systems wide (culture wide, values wide, psychological etc.), process wide effect, that isn't even clearly understood as even being an effect or "problem": high employment seems to be much more of a flaw than unemployment in a Technological Economy or in a high productivity economy and such, since the work being done should be optimizing and eliminating more work than it creates, or else the work being done is not only a diminishing return endeavor but a negative return endeavor, more present work should mean less future work if that work is really being productive, not more future work, etc.
But of course, the effect wanted, the process, the causes and all such items get all confused when a Man Brain with its desire to have an advantage over some other Man Brain is trying to "explain" the "Problems" and the "Solutions", etc, when it is all ideological (as in all things economical and political) as usual, but especially when the bottom line of all is simply the fight, A against B, the conflict, the contrast, the game, A wins B loses, etc, no matter how sophisticated (and hidden the agenda) they get with the explanations and politics and ideology and theory, it all boils down to a simple fight, A wants to gain, wants an upper hand by making B pay for it and such, a one transistor circuit.
But this method of always saying there is problem B that must be solved, the solution of the problem is A, but A gives an upper hand to the party talking about and describing and discovering the "problem" is done all the time: like saying that unemployment can improve and "more jobs can be created" by "a more flexible labor market and no unions" (who says so ? who invented this cause and effect ? who can demonstrate it ? or are you (corporations) creating this invention and applying it so you can get rid of unions ? etc.) or "more jobs can be created" by "more education", another example of totally disjoint causes and effects that no one can demonstrate, that are totally intractable, and anyone can demonstrate this as true or false according to what statistics, numbers, examples, countries or companies they take as an example and such.
Add to this that all of these (imaginary ?) causes and effects have feedback loops, with both positive and negative feedback paths, since "more education" may mean "more teachers" but also "more books printed" and such and at the same time companies themselves are brainwashed by the imaginary "cause and effect" to hire more people who are educated, in a complex loop confusing the cause with the effect (desired ?) and invention and the process and all else.
In short, all things Economical and Social are Processes, complex intractable Processes with both positive and negative feedback loops and ESPECIALLY WHERE THE DESCRIPTION OF THE PROCESS ITSELF MODIFIES THE PROCESS, THE INFORMATION WITHIN THE PROCESS INVENTING OR ASSIGNING THE "PROBLEMS" AND "CAUSES AND EFFECTS" ACTUALLY CREATES THOSE VERY "CAUSES AND EFFECTS" AND ALSO DESTROYS THEM,
in an ever changing intractable random and chaotic systems wide process with millions of moving and distinct and independent and separate (but every now and then combined and unit creating) parts.
Of course as usual, all of the above is false, or true or whatever, and even though you may discover that all political talk is "hidden agenda based", you can be sure that there will always be something else, some new invention that will always hide the agenda all over again without you noticing it again, as there are ever clever ways to deceive and invent and hide the real simple fight and conflict and contrast that is the only true thing always operating.
My agenda is not hidden: I want a Free Salary and Cheap Rents, if not for everyone, at least for me, so I am honest, I am saying exactly what I want and I want the Government to Pay for it all, so there, I said (and I could care less if "someone" else is working to "pay me", who gives two c*cks and a d*ck ?, what clowns!).AN APE, AN 8 MAN, A TOBOR