The Soul, and theism

by **Slartibartfast** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:39 pm

this is really two questions in one, althought yhey sort of relate to each other, i guess. I am trying to look at them from a scientific standpoint, not a religious one, so that's why i didn't put this message into the religious section of this board.

First Question: Do you belive in the soul?
(i don't, because there is no evidence that would prove that the soul could exist.)

Second Question: Do you believe in God, a god, a deity, a pantheon, or some form of higher power?
(i don't, because there is overwhelming evidence that proves that its fake. i have read the entire bible, and it has more holes than swiss cheese. it also blatantly contradicts itself on many occasions.)

by **Guest** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:33 pm

1. No.
2. No. Here's my reasoning: I'm not an especially bad person, so I'm just going to trundle through life as an atheist but not one who thinks "hell, there's no God to punish me, so I'm going to kill... my mum" - I'm still going to behave. If a God did turn out to exist, then hopefully I wouldn't get punished seeing as I'd never done anything wrong. If He/It did, and was such a wanker that they'd punish me just for not believing in Them, then I wouldn't credit them by living abiding by them ...

Or something like that. Mainly, no, I don't think there is one. There's no more evidence for it than there is for invisible monkeys being everywhere, fiddling with our brains and telling us what to do. I always feel stupid writing these sorts of things on here because someone and quotes something lengthy from a Greek text with mind-boggling complexity, but there you go ... that's how I think.

by **ssivakami** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:56 am

Actually the atheist label is a redundant one. Those claiming the existence of some entity called god, need to provide the proof of its existence. The default position is a lack of belief.

- Sivakami.

by **Frighter** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:17 pm

i would have to say that i am a theist. however my belief in a god is only a belief inso far as i believe that SOMETHING created the universe. and whatever that something is, that is god. it does not have to be an intelegence, or a living being.. but there is something. whatever it is that he/her/it is, it cares nothing about us, or has any interest or ability to interfear in the evolution of the universe as a whole. but i refuse to believe that the universe was created by "chance" chance does not exist. not that im saying there is "fate" in the traditional sense, but the laws of the universe must be, and are followed, and thus nothing can happen "accidentally"

by **tall gnome** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 10:15 pm

1. i do believe everyone has a soul. i understand there's no proof for it, maybe its to do with my religious background, but i honestly believe in the whole reincarnation thing. i'm not going to admit to knowing exactly what will happen, its just seems right to me.
2. i don't believe there's a god. (does that contradict anything i said in 1.) being a scientist i cannot believe there is a god. i, like our guest, am not going to use this as an excuse to do bad things just because no-one/thing will punish me (afterwards that is!)
[i have to say there is slight doubt over this topic hence me ticking the agnostic box]

(excuse all the contradictions - im not in a very decisive mood tonight)

by **Frighter** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:48 am

its annoying i want to agree. i feel that there just must be a soul.. cause no other materialist explination is able to explain the subjectivity of the universe. but then again i dont think we could ever know that it exists.

by **ssivakami** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:59 pm

Frighter wrote:i would have to say that i am a theist. however my belief in a god is only a belief inso far as i believe that SOMETHING created the universe. and whatever that something is, that is god. it does not have to be an intelegence, or a living being.. but there is something. whatever it is that he/her/it is, it cares nothing about us, or has any interest or ability to interfear in the evolution of the universe as a whole. but i refuse to believe that the universe was created by "chance" chance does not exist. not that im saying there is "fate" in the traditional sense, but the laws of the universe must be, and are followed, and thus nothing can happen "accidentally"

Thats actually a Deist viewpoint and a far more rational one than a Theist (personal god) one.
BTW saying that something does not necessarily need a cause does not mean that it came about by chance.
Take evolution, for eg. It is not just a chance process. Chance alone could never have got us here. Random mutations without non-random natural selection would have gotten nowhere.

- Sivakami.

by **jinxed84** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:50 am

1. no only because of my answer to number two
2 no because i have a hard time comprehending how life the universe and everything actually got here. humans try to rationalize things which they do not understand...ancient civilizations with no forms of (modern) science explained things they didnt understand(lightining, earthquakes famine,etc etc, as gods/tools of the gods. i think that God in our everyday life and culture is still an excuse for that which we do not understand/cant possibly comprehend...yet. We dont know where the universe came from, or how we got here so the world thinks "hey God must be behind it all". well fooey to that just as fooey as thunder being caused by a god...no sorry its from lightining which is from static electricity. i think in popular culture there will always be the need for a god. Its the lazy man's security blanket. you dont want to explain something attribute it to god. I dont believe we will ever get to a point where we dont need a god anymore because there will always be thing we dont understand...if we get to the point where we understand everything..well we'll be gods then now wont we

edit: expalining my answer for #1 if i dont believe in a god i dont think there is any use for a soul.

by **Nevir Sonat Kinkeri** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:41 am

Answer 1:
Yes, I do believe in the soul. Some don't have a proof for it, but I feel my proof is the emotions of the "heart". When we love someone deeply, we hold them close in our proverbial hearts. We give allow that person to be near our soul with our love for that person. But when that person ends the relationship, we say our "heart is breaking". It isn't our real heart, but it still hurts in our chest to know that it's over. I think the soul is manifesting it's pain upon the body. I'm sure there's an explanation for it having to do with emotions and brain waves and psychological happenings, but that is what I've always believed part of our soul is.

Answer 2:
Yes, I do believe in God. Holy Trinity, Salvation, Heaven, Hell, the whole works...cept I'm a little...liberal in my beliefs :wink:

. Ok, extremely liberal, but hey, that's me. Like for me, I respect everyone's opinion on the subject, and will not try to change anyone else's opinion...unlike many people who believe they have to convert people who are...ahem..."heathens"...

by **Brad** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 4:16 am

ssivakami wrote:Take evolution, for eg. It is not just a chance process. Chance alone could never have got us here. Random mutations without non-random natural selection would have gotten nowhere.
- Sivakami.

No, it would have gotten everywhere. :lol:

If we assume an infinite randomness, Chance would have made our 'here' inevitable.

by **Nikola** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:55 pm

1. I don't, because after all, we react in a predictable way, just like matter does. I don't belive there is a significant difference between soul and matter.
2. In my opinion, to different people, the word God means different things. So, If the question is if I belive that God exhist in a sence that he is good or bad or has any opinions then I'd have to say I don't. But, in my opinion to know God is to see that everything that exhists is a part of a perfect one thing. The feeling of being a part of an ocean. I get this feeling from knowing that nothing exhists as a one thing. For example "I" don't exhist, because I change every milisecond and because I change every second I am just a part of that one thing. I hope you understand me, because my English is really bad and I apologise for that.

I must ask, because I really don't know, does this make me a theist?

by **Charlie** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 2:08 am

!) yes i believe in souls
2) yes i believe in God

but i wouldnt know how to label myself or really what to do with these beliefs.

by **phenomenal graffiti** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 10:28 pm

I don't believe in the existence of "soul" in the classical sense of the word, as I hold that the "soul" is ultimately only our conscious experience other than the elan vital of old (or in the bible).

I do believe in God, as no physical theory or speculation can rule out the possible existence of a God, and I hold that God is a disembodied consciousness rather than some mystical "perceivable" being. On this understanding, since consciousness is the only "material" in the universe that cannot be discerned by the senses, a God could exist for all we can know a priori.

But that is only my view,
Jay M. Brewer
phenomenal_graffit@yahoo.com

The Soul, and theism

What are you?

The Soul, and theism

belief in a soul? belief in a God?

Who is online