Reality ?

Within the framework of technological singularities, the idea of creating simulated virtual realities through computers or modified minds, or modified brains having modified neural circuits and new sense organs and new mind-brain organizations redefines reality and physics.

Any modified simulated reality system is much closer to “reality”, is much more real, is much less detached from reality than our natural state as humans. In fact humans are just a combination of matter, a configuration that is the result of 5 billion years of trillions of random chemical experiments playing out on an entire planet. A simulating machine is the result of a few thousand years of technological evolution but nowhere near the scale of natural evolution, nowhere near the complexity and randomness of all the quirk events that brought to the human condition, hence a simulating machine is closer to reality than any “natural” system, is less of a lie and an invention than natural systems.

Simulating machines, new minds either in silicon or brains is actually a trip back towards reality, is actually the discovery of reality and physics and not the other way around, the real simulation is the human mind as nature furnished it. Natural systems are much more detached from reality than any man made simple simulating machine, hence the simulation is closer to reality.

We are a quirk item that is the total result of 5 billion years of evolution of trillions of molecules on an entire planet. How much further from reality can you possibly get ? How much further from the basic apparent laws of physics can you possibly get ?

On an edge, the surface of the earth being an edge between solid and gas, within a very small range of temperatures and conditions, a human needing so many supplemental systems to exist, like food, water, pressure, the right gravity etc. This is so quirky and so improbabile that it is not even a lie! a lie, a total outright lie is more true than nature!

This shows that artificial intelligence is not only wrong, it is not even wrong since it is so far away from a human brain. Not even wrong, not even related.

The system of a mind interacting with reality is equivalent to a system of a delimited piece of matter interacting with another delimited piece of matter. The interaction being a set of events, a number of events and the observing entity being an aggregation within a delimited piece of matter. Now the organization and aggregations and sets of matter and events, the system as a whole can be any of untold number of combinations, the events and sensations, the observing entity can experience any of untold number of experiences. So no combination is any truer than any other, they are all lies, or all false or all true. They all have the same amount of detachment from reality or we can assign a parameter to define how detached according to how complex the delimited matter and interacting matter and set of events are. Humans are a planet large set having 5 billion years of events, hence very detached, very arbitrary, very much a lie compared to a simulated neural network in the ball of meat that is a modified brain.

What reality ? What truth ? What physics ? What is composed of what ultimately ? ALL LIES…

Closer to reality would be inside stars, a plasma since this is much more common in the universe, or inside planets, not on the surface, or in deep space. But our physics is wrong anyways being based on a lie that is the human entity.

God is a storyteller.
We are his blockbuster.

The first two paragraphs are insane so I stopped reading.

What laws of physics does a computer program perceive ? the data bus, the memory, the clock cycles, etc. that is the entire universe of invariants from the program’s point of view. We think we “know” better in that our laws of physics are more general and those of the program are a subset of what we know. But what we know is just as arbitrary, the only invariants are the events, the interactions of matter with itself, the perception and organization of events, a set of events. We simply translate from one language to another, the invariants are simply the information which is simply a writing system, any information can be invented, it is just an art form, the future of science is simply art.

We are hardwired to interact with reality according to circuits of pain/pleasure, our memory, our organization of information, the events that make up our interactions. We are frozen in this configuration, but it is totally arbitrary, any set of events and interactions and the perceiving item can be anything. There are no set of events that is truer or more real than any other, hence the laws of physics ultimately do not exist, they only exist once an invariant perceiving item has been designed to interact with matter according to a fixed set of events, a repetitive set of events that through their regularity becomes “laws of physics”.

In all truth there are no invariants, there are only hardwired circuits that interact with matter according to a fixed set of events, according to how it interacts with the outside world, but even the outside and inside world can be switched, you can imagine a simulation living inside another simulation for any number of levels deep.

Just to simulate one protein folding with a supercomputer, a trillion calculations per second are not enough, therefore the human being made up of billions of molecules is a very inefficient reality machine. A computer with all that computing power attached to optimized electronic neural networks, brains, modified realities, new emotion circuits and sense organ circuits would be a much more efficient reality machine, therefore much closer to reality.

Reality is just a set of signals, signals interacting to each other, a group of signals and events organized in any possible way that generates sensations, consciousness, emotions, pain/pleasure, and maybe many more deeper experiences. The human configuration is a very weak and detached simulation, a very primitive and inefficient system. A hugely fake system needing billions of years of evolution to construct, 9 months to get born, 15 years to become adult, many complex cultural inputs and interactions to have a decent thinking brain, billions of proteins - molecules, signals just to exist. It is a bad design, it needs so many other fake subsystems like water - food, an “economy”, a social environment, and all these being hugely quirky and arbitrary, a huge fluke of configuration.

That is the mistake of “artificial intelligence”, as first of all intelligence doesn’t even exist and is totally irrelevant, and second, no simulation or machine can get even close to the complexity of a brain, to its insane number of atoms all talking to each other, all interacting, all signals and noise and information.

That is why science and technology are essentially over. Science can’t get any further because it wants to keep that master invariant called the mind - brain static. But only by altering the organization of the mind - brain can all further “advances” be made. It will be a second big bang, the birth of a new universe. Any advances that we can think or imagine or desire by keeping the mind static and manipulating external reality as has been done up to now, is just a subset of creating the equivalent of those advances by manipulating the design and structure of the mind - brain. A simulated, virtual reality is the easiest way to imagine it, but it is just a simple technical detail: either keep the mind static and manipulate the external word, or manipulate the mind to create an equivalent that can’t be obtained by manipulating the external world as we try to do now with our finished science - technology. But any advances we want desire or imagine are just designs, are just aesthetical, “artistic” choices, are just pretty pictures that we like.

In fact most of these manipulations of minds - brains will be outside any logic, will be random, some will follow some logic, but logic and reasoning and language as we used it up until now in science and technology is just an optional, is just a fluke tool, we will simply stick the wires in the ball of meat that is the brain and start experimenting. In a sense that is why drugs are used, like LSD, but those that use it are unaware of their attempt to cross the boundary into a new universe.

Incorrect.

Please play again when the topic is: Fairy tails and the fallacies that support them.

check out:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=163667

“Now it must be forced upon, you have to think it in your brain and create it instantaneously, you have to lie to matter and lie to yourself and the laws of physics will have to abide and yield to the abstract instantaneous singularity. Thoughts are signals are matter are mathematically equivalent to computers designing smarter computers up to nirvana. You modify brain and obtain Instant Singularity. it has been achieved, it has been done, how many people have entered an Instant Singularity ? they cannot communicate any results since they have entered a parallel universe…”

Thoughts are signals that are events that are matter that are new universes, new laws of physics. Events and signals create energy that creates matter that creates new realities, pure thougth produces new worlds, all modified minds are thought out, no need for any reality or matter or energy or truth. Lies are the truth, this is in fact a real fairy tale…

The coming instant singularity has already been achieved, how many people are inside one ? How many electrons are thinking the singularity and creating it ? or photons, or plank level perturbations … all is only a relationship between information items, but information is a writing system which is just art, a pretty picture.

what makes you think that all of a sudden the basic laws of the Universe disappear just because of the billions of years of evolution ?

weren’t these laws present every step of the way in our evolution? I would reasonably think so

The laws of physics are irrelevant. They could have been any other laws, or no laws at all, what is relevant is the product, the quirk product that has consciousness and is tied into reality through pain/pleasure circuits and sense organs and signals and events. This set of signals and events is just information interacting with other information creating perception. Would it matter if we were just a simulation in a memory or if we were made up of one monolithic slab of geometry that could not be decomposed or reduced into laws of physics and atoms ? As long as the same information structure and perception and experiences are produced, the underlying physics is totally irrelevant.

So if we measure how artificial an item is by how many passages and manipulations matter had to go through to produce it, being that “NATURAL” evolution required billions of complex manipulations and interactions, natural carbon chemistry systems are in fact the most artificial of systems, the most fake, the most invented, the most detached from simple monolithic matter. A computer simulation requires fewer manipulations and passages so it is much less artificial, more real, closer to reality. We are the totally fake and invented item, we are totally unreal, we are not real at all.

We are also an edge, a surface, an interface between liquid and gas as our body is mostly liquid and the environment is a gas. On interfaces and edges like planet surfaces or our skin, between solids, liquids and gases you find the right mix of stable and unstable environments that allow, according to those very quirky - arbitrary - fake - completely invented and made up - complete flukes of the “LAWS OF PHYSICS”, for matter to interact with itself in a continuous process and evolve various forms. Evolution is simply a continuous process of matter interacting with itself and always changing its design, its configuration and form.

Our Physics is a kind of narrative, a kind of language with variant and invariant elements combining and mixing according to laws, a kind of design, a kind of picture, a pretty picture. If you change the language, the narrative changes and you get completely different mixes and interactions between stable and unstable, variant and invariant, between monolithic and detached, composed of and composing into, etc. So a conscious element in a universe where the combination of geometrical forms like monolithic boxes creates consciousness and experiences would not care much about the laws of the combination of boxes as much as the experiences generated. But maybe the experiences and perceptions and consciousness are the real invariants and monolithic items of its view of reality - universe.

We invent and have always invented our own reality - universe, it has always been a lie and fake…

Evolution is matter constantly interacting with itself and changing state and form. At what point are the laws of physics no longer valid ? At a certain point in evolution when there are many species of simple animals, We have simple animals that have a kind of free will and constantly decide on a whim and according to local circumstances to “change behavior” like move randomly, therefore the total matter consisting of the thin film on the surface of a planet (the biological ecosystem) no longer really follows any “laws of physics”, but very vague and odd patterns of behavior.

Extrapolate this to billions of humans in a complex technological society, and then maybe in time to trillons of human like “free wills” interacting. Imagine the volume of matter on the surface of a planet having more “free wills” than stable elements, then this matter no longer follows the laws of physics in any way, but its own partial internal laws, made up of trillions of free wills and quirk decisions.

What kind of matter is this ? What phase transition does matter undergo when it is composed of trillions of free will elements - minds - virtual minds - virtual realities - technological singularitites of all kinds ?

It seems that we are back to determinism and free will: is a quantum flux a random free will item ? is determinism 100 % true ? Is random weather and wind not following the “laws of physics” ? Seems like the laws of physics are vaild only within the controlled environment of our mind and imagination, only within very narrowly controlled conditions and experiments, very “artificial conditions”. No answers, more questions …

I disagree

the laws of physics is about , really , the evolution of thought , the evolution of understanding of things

therefore the " laws of physics " are not irrelevant

yet the computer still needs info , and this info comes from us Humans

so strip completely bare any computer of any info , how would it gain any info in which to work with ?

and with this done the computer becomes no more than an amoeba

things in physics change all the time with new knowledge

and its not always a " pretty picture " I don’t where you got that idea

not necessarily

the languge could be expressing the same thing , it just has a different name

they all change but what is fundamental is what gave experiences , perceptions and consciousness the ability to be

the Universe

the Universe is the ground on which we all stand , all life

 this is a ridiculous statement

we are simply NOT intelligent enough to " invent " the Universe

proof >>> hence research or ologies

The universe is eveything, including the laws of physics.

yes and no

the Universe is the foundation of putting are feet on the ground , so to speak , a planet , Earth for example

hence living things

but the Universe is not everything

the Universe is not about life so much as it is about where life can survive

life is everywhere

its just where can it survive ?

opportunity

What? What school they taught you this butchered definition?

Main Entry:
uni·verse Listen to the pronunciation of universe

1: the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated

Thats the universe, its everything. There is no such thing as more than one universe also. It is all inclusive.

true

I was separating the Universe from life

like the energy of the Universe is different from the energy of life

while at the sametime knowing that life needs the Universe to manifest but the Universe does not need life to manifest

That made me laugh, lol. I can agree with you fully about this. I have my own theory about these billions, and trillions of atoms & molecules that created reality. These atoms and molecules all rain down on one another; weaving to and fro like an ocean of endless possibilities, and impossibilities. These possibilities and impossibilities create reality through alternate universes. Universes that are there only for the; what if’s, I should have, and maybe I could have done things differently. Thus, in the reality you’re in you won’t see these things because you’re there “doing you”. But while you “do you”, your alternate you is doing what you shoulda, coulda, woulda in another space, in another time; right below your 5 senses. Maybe your 6th can catch a glimpse of it (trails) or maybe not. I’m a numerologist into proving facts behind numbers. And to back this theory of reality, I have an equation. The equation:

INFINITE- 5
POSSIBILITIES- 1
IMPOSSIBILITIES- 5

Add em together: 2

ATOMS- 2

ATOM- 1
POSSIBILITY- 2
IMPOSSIBILITY- 6

Add em together: 9

REALITY= 9

right… oh I’m sure

All I can say is ‘wow’. Much of what I just read really doesn’t make any sense…at least to me.

As for the laws of physics, the laws themselves are not human invention. The words chosen to describe them, however, are human invention. Nobody can deny the laws of physics any more than they can deny the existence of gravity (which is covered by some of the laws coincidentally). The laws of physics have been observed, tested and recorded…repeatedly. If there are ‘multiverses’ or overlapping dimensions then maybe the laws of physics differ there. Since it’s highly unlikely anyone reading this is from, has been to, or ever will explore another ‘multiverse’ or dimension it’s safe to say the laws of physics are laws until proven otherwise. You may choose not to believe or accept laws passed by government, but the laws of physics are slightly harder to not accept. Go ahead and challenge gravity…I’ll wait.

Saying that the Universe, matter, and evolution are lies or are detached from reality is mind boggling. Reality is based upon perception, which is based on perspective. Anything that can be perceived is real in some way. The perception itself may be false which is where perspective comes into play. If something is perceived to be the same from many perspectives it increases the likelihood that it has been perceived correctly but doesn’t guarantee it. Nothing is 100% correct. So the best minds in the world may write general rules only to find out years later that everyone was wrong. This doesn’t automatically make all rules, laws or theories lies.

It’s my opinion that some people cannot grasp how ridiculously amazing it is that we are conscious and are aware of our own consciousness. It is correct that we are the product of near-limitless random atomic and chemical reactions occurring over a span of time that we cannot measure. Maybe life itself was a complete freak accident that was able to replicate itself. Maybe it wasn’t an accident at all. It’s not likely able to be proven one way or the other. But to say that a computer simulation is more real than natural evolution because it’s more efficient? I’m led to believe the terms ‘real’ and ‘efficient’ are being incorrectly assumed to mean the same thing. Also, being inefficient is not synonymous with being a lie. That is perverse logic to say the least.

What?

Within the first 2 lines it’s stated that reality is a set of signals and events that generates consciousness among other things, then states that the human system is detached, primitive and inefficient. I can agree with that. But then it’s stated that it’s a hugely fake system.
Perceived reality is the sensation and interaction with said signals and events; our consciousness allows this analysis. Since consciousness is part of the ‘human system’ how could this system be fake? Likewise, how are water, food, etc. fake? Perhaps ‘fake’ wasn’t really the intended descriptor here?

Again, what?

This sounds closer to an acid trip than any form of science. Ergo, I can agree that, yes, many people have dropped acid.

It looks like freewill and the laws of physics are being mixed up here. EVERYTHING follows the laws of physics. Even you, whether you want to or not, are following the laws of physics. It’s not a choice.

I can only hope that it wasn’t taught in any school. I would definitely say there’s a lack of accurate education present in many of the topics, but the fact that we’re all here (on this site, not meaning in existence) signifies an interest in intellectual ideas and discussion.

Also:

Please explain this.