How gravity works

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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:26 pm

Farsight wrote:Scouts honour James, energy causes gravity, not particles. As an illustration, in The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity on page 185 of Doc 30, Einstein says "the energy of the gravitational field shall act gravitatively in the same way as any other kind of energy". You don't need particles to cause gravity. There doesn't even have to be any motion, all you need is a non-uniform energy distribution.

I 100% agree that energy causes gravity, but I think you are thinking of energy as something different than what Einstein was talking about. Energy is an ability ("the ability to do work"), not exactly a "thing". Einstein was referring to the ability to do work involving a gravity field is similar to the "ability to do work" involving any other fields. In other words, "energy is energy and the field involved isn't terribly relevant". Of course energy creates the gravity. Energy creates the mass too and all other effects. This is necessarily true because energy is what we call that stuff that causes things - any and all things.

Farsight wrote:Understood. I've described the photon as a distortion in a cubic lattice. When you step back the distortion reduces. Step back again, and the distortion reduces further. But distortion is what the photon is. Or if it's passing you: vibration. Yes, I understand what you mean, and agree with the sense of it.

My point is that even though the lattice concept can be used to explain the effects, it is a superstitious notion merely filling in a gap in more complete understanding. Of what would the lattice be made and from whence did it come? Those cannot be answered because the lattice (or "jelly-stuff") exists only in the mind - a "superstition".

Farsight wrote:I'm afraid I can't agree with this James. I rather feel that this isn't gravity you're describing here, it's electromagnetism.

The whole point is the EM is the force of the energy that is causing everything. There is no other force except as an aberrant effect of the motion of the EM. "Energy" is merely the EM in action. And the "M", magnetism, isn't exactly real (as I think you pointed out too). The only REAL force that creates the entire universe is what we measure as electric charge. But there is no semi-firm substance involved nor required. It is merely a first tempting thought.

Until you can explain of what the proposed lattice is made and from where it came, you cannot complete the theory except by proposition of a superstitious component necessary to make the rest make sense. Such is very common today in physics. Things like strong and weak forces are merely invented thoughts so as to get around not understanding why atoms behave as they do. Even the notion of a quark was merely invented to try to explain what was happening. No one has ever seen one. And the explanation never completed. It never will as long as people are inventing magical forces, unseen particles, strings, and "lattices" in the effort to pull the puzzle pieces together. Nothing needs to be invented that hasn't been seen, merely understood.

I can explain from whence my "compressed gas - affectance" came and of exactly what it is made.

Rise above the clouds and confusion. Metaphysics (logical deduction from no-choice perspectives) must be used to put the puzzle together and see what has been missing in the understanding.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby Farsight » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:09 pm

James S Saint wrote:I 100% agree that energy causes gravity, but I think you are thinking of energy as something different than what Einstein was talking about. Energy is an ability ("the ability to do work"), not exactly a "thing". Einstein was referring to the ability to do work involving a gravity field is similar to the "ability to do work" involving any other fields. In other words, "energy is energy and the field involved isn't terribly relevant". Of course energy creates the gravity. Energy creates the mass too and all other effects. This is necessarily true because energy is what we call that stuff that causes things - any and all things.
I don't know whether I'm thinking of energy in different terms to Einstein. But I do think it's a thing. I think it's the only thing that there is.

James S Saint wrote:My point is that even though the lattice concept can be used to explain the effects, it is a superstitious notion merely filling in a gap in more complete understanding. Of what would the lattice be made and from whence did it come? Those cannot be answered because the lattice (or "jelly-stuff") exists only in the mind - a "superstition".
The lattice is not there, it's as real as a reference frame, an artefact of measurement to measure the ghostly intangible jelly-stuff called space that we cannot see, and to show the changes that we can only feel. But we use these changes to see, because the bulging lattice depicts a photon. We see with a photon, a pulse of space travelling through space. We cannot see the photon, and we cannot see the space. We cannot see the nothingness that space is. There's nothing there, and nothing there to see. But when it changes, the change propagates at c, and light moves through it. So is it nothing? Or is something? Or is it something and nothing? I don't know.

James S Saint wrote:The whole point is the EM is the force of the energy that is causing everything. There is no other force except as an aberrant effect of the motion of the EM. "Energy" is merely the EM in action. And the "M", magnetism, isn't exactly real (as I think you pointed out too). The only REAL force that creates the entire universe is what we measure as electric charge. But there is no semi-firm substance involved nor required. It is merely a first tempting thought.
Charge isn't fundamental James. You can create it and destroy it. You cannot do this with energy. The photon conveys electromagnetic energy, but the neutrino does not. We talk of electroweak interactions, but it isn't true to say the action is always electromagnetic.

James S Saint wrote:Until you can explain of what the proposed lattice is made and from where it came, you cannot complete the theory except by proposition of a superstitious component necessary to make the rest make sense.
See above. There is no lattice. It's just a depiction to show a wave that we cannot otherwise see.

James S Saint wrote:Such is very common today in physics.
Agreed. Too many people ascribe to much reality to abstractions.

James S Saint wrote:Things like strong and weak forces are merely invented thoughts so as to get around not understanding why atoms behave as they do.
The weak force is not really a force, it's an interaction instead. The strong force is very real James. More real and more fundamental than you might think. If you could make a photon by stretching space as depicted in that lattice, what resists your efforts? Where does the strong force go after low-energy proton-antiproton annihilation? It's in the space, it always is.

James S Saint wrote:Even the notion of a quark was merely invented to try to explain what was happening. No one has ever seen one. And the explanation never completed.
It will be. It's just a loop.

James S Saint wrote:It never will as long as people are inventing magical forces, unseen particles, strings, and "lattices" in the effort to pull the puzzle pieces together. Nothing needs to be invented that hasn't been seen, merely understood.
There are no strings. There is no lattice. It's just a depiction to show a wave that we cannot otherwise see. And from those waves, we make particles, as in pair production.

James S Saint wrote:I can explain from whence my "compressed gas - affectance" came and of exactly what it is made. Rise above the clouds and confusion. Metaphysics (logical deduction from no-choice perspectives) must be used to put the puzzle together and see what has been missing in the understanding.
It isn't easy.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:19 pm

A force is more fundamental than energy. Energy is merely a force in action. You can have a force without energy, but you cannot have energy without force. Charge is force. Energy is the consequence of the charge.

You keep repeating "It doesn't exist. It is nothing. It is something. I don't know." How can you conclude to me what is or isn't real or what actually exists when you say such things?

Define what "existing" means before you state what "really exists". :shifty:
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby Farsight » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:07 pm

James S Saint wrote:A force is more fundamental than energy. Energy is merely a force in action. You can have a force without energy, but you cannot have energy without force. Charge is force. Energy is the consequence of the charge.
Yes, in a way charge is force, in that a charged particle results in electromagnetic force. But that particle can be created along with another via pair production from a charge-less photon, which exerts no force. So we'll have to agree to differ as regards what's fundamental I'm afraid James.

James S Saint wrote:You keep repeating "It doesn't exist. It is nothing. It is something. I don't know." How can you conclude to me what is or isn't real or what actually exists when you say such things? Define what "existing" means before you state what "really exists".
Something that exists, is. I can't define it further. Gravity is real, as is pair production. Mass is real, the electron is real, as is its magnetic dipole moment. The evidence is there, and I can draw conclusions from this. But I can't draw conclusions about the origin of the universe.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:27 am

Farsight wrote:
James S Saint wrote:A force is more fundamental than energy. Energy is merely a force in action. You can have a force without energy, but you cannot have energy without force. Charge is force. Energy is the consequence of the charge.
Yes, in a way charge is force, in that a charged particle results in electromagnetic force. But that particle can be created along with another via pair production from a charge-less photon, which exerts no force. So we'll have to agree to differ as regards what's fundamental I'm afraid James.

You are conflating charged particles with charge. before any particle exists, out in a space void of particles, there must already exist forces that cause motion. That motion and propagation is the energy being created by those forces in action. Those forces are electric, "EM". Under the right circumstances, the propagating waves will envelope and become particles with particle inertia and mass. Some of them, depending which envelope they fell into, will express a bundle of positive or negative charge rather than having a bundle of equal amounts and thus being over all neutral. A neutral particle has equal amounts of positive wave and negative wave.

Farsight wrote:
James S Saint wrote:You keep repeating "It doesn't exist. It is nothing. It is something. I don't know." How can you conclude to me what is or isn't real or what actually exists when you say such things? Define what "existing" means before you state what "really exists".
Something that exists, is. I can't define it further.

That will not do.

What is the difference in effect between that which exists and that which doesn't?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25785
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: How gravity works

Postby Farsight » Tue May 04, 2010 3:52 pm

James S Saint wrote:You are conflating charged particles with charge. before any particle exists, out in a space void of particles, there must already exist forces that cause motion. That motion and propagation is the energy being created by those forces in action. Those forces are electric, "EM". Under the right circumstances, the propagating waves will envelope and become particles with particle inertia and mass. Some of them, depending which envelope they fell into, will express a bundle of positive or negative charge rather than having a bundle of equal amounts and thus being over all neutral. A neutral particle has equal amounts of positive wave and negative wave.
No problem. This is why I say alternating current is more fundamental than direct current. The photon is alternating current, we can see it's a form of current because of the field variation, and the sinusoidal waveform has a positive and a negative, so it's alternating. But there's no charged particle there. Employ pair production to create an electron and a positron, then we've got charged particles. Move the electron, and we call it direct current. Shuffle it back and forth and we call it alternating current. But it isn't as fundamental as the alternating current that we call the photon.

James S Saint wrote:That will not do. What is the difference in effect between that which exists and that which doesn't?
I'm sorry, I can't define it further. If something exists, it exists. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I cannot assert that something does not exist because I cannot detect its effect.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:29 pm

Farsight wrote:WHAT EINSTEIN SAID

People say the speed of light is constant, and Einstein said it. But that’s... not... entirely... true, Mr President. Yes, Einstein started with this as a postulate in 1905, but in 1911 he wrote On the Influence of Gravitation on the Propagation of Light, where we can see his ideas evolving. He gives the expression c = c0 (1 + Φ/c²), which is c varying with gravitational potential. Then in 1912 he said it again when he wrote "On the other hand I am of the view that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light can be maintained only insofar as one restricts oneself to spatio-temporal regions of constant gravitational potential". He repeated this in 1913 when he said this: "I arrived at the result that the velocity of light is not to be regarded as independent of the gravitational potential. Thus the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is incompatible with the equivalence hypothesis".

Image
Wikipedia commons public domain image, Solvay 1911 crop uploaded by Fastfission

This wasn’t just some early thought that he later discarded, because there it is again in 1915 when he says " the writer of these lines is of the opinion that the theory of relativity is still in need of generalization, in the sense that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is to be abandoned." That’s on page 259 of Doc 21, sorry, I’m not sure what the original paper is called. He says it again in late 1915, on page 150 of Doc 30, within The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity. Einstein says "the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo must be modified.". He spells it out in section 22 of the 1916 book Relativity: The Special and General Theory where he says this:

"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position. Now we might think that as a consequence of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity cannot claim an unlimited domain of validity; its results hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the phenomena (e.g. of light)".

People tend to see the word velocity in the translations without seeing the context and without noticing that he’s repeatedly referring to “the principle”. They just don’t see the significance of “laid in the dust”, and they skip over his reference to "one of the two fundamental assumptions". They just don’t and won’t see that he's talking about the SR postulate, which is the constant speed of light. Some will even huff and puff and cry “out of context” and “cherry picking” to dismiss what Einstein actually said. They refuse to accept that Einstein didn't speak English in 1916, and that what he actually said was die Ausbreitungsgeschwindigkeit des Lichtes mit dem Orte variiert. I’ve got the original German version, and I got a German friend and an Austrian friend to translate it for me. It translates into the speed of light varies with the locality. The word “velocity” in the 1920 Methuen translation was the common usage, as in “high velocity bullet”, not the vector quantity that combines speed and direction. He was saying the speed varies with position, hence the reference to the postulate, and hence it causes curvilinear motion. It causes the light to follow a curved path. like a car veers when the near-side wheels encounter mud at the side of the road.


Is it because Relativity is about average and not exact?
Maybe Relativity is statistical.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:28 am

barbarianhorde wrote:Is it because Relativity is about average and not exact?
Maybe Relativity is statistical.

What you just described would be Quantum Physics. Relativity is merely a different ontology with a shortcut way of do the math. Relativity ontology only works in certain situations, so it is not "the real truth". But then it doesn't have to be merely to provide easier math.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25785
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: How gravity works

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:20 am

Let's just take a break and understand for a moment.

We are here.

We have a concept that we can live forever; everyone has this concept.

How can we even have this concept if it's non-existant???

Obviously it exists.

Thus, we live forever.


Gravity??? Pfft!

Larger objects control smaller objects ...

Just like the big dude can beat up the small dude...

What you guys haven't realized; this entire world is evil, this universe ...

Fortunately, existence let's us move beyond it
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Re: How gravity works

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:19 pm

Honestly, Gravity is easy to figure out. We have a dense core of solid material intermixed with hidden pools of molten lava, deep water wells of underground oceans, rivers, etc. Our gravity comes from the fact that we spin on our axis giving the illusion of the sun setting and the moon waxing and waning, creating centripetal forces spinning, And then we're on a grander spin around the sun in it's orbit at high velocities that we are born into in the safety womb of our gravity cum atmospheric barrier between the heavy oxygen air that we can breathe to the seeming vaccum filled with more 'thin' winds that theoretically rip us apart. That's centrifugal force. Add to that the magnetic layers and barriers from the natural ores of our planet and the added blasts from the sun in terms of invisible energy since most flares don't even get close to us. Our emotional energy creates another barrier. Several layers of atmospheric conditions overlaying each other like so many layers of rock in a quarry create our breathing air, our protection from the sun, our barrier to space, and our gravity as we are born into being held to earth in much the same way as the ride at the fair that spins around and pins you to the wall. Just the same, but parts of the atmosphere naturally shield us from a lot of chaos and insanity of the outer-universe. Being born in the presence of an ongoing factor gives us a certain immunity to a lot of things up to a certain point and part of even that adds to the overall force that keeps us feet to solid ground.

We are spinning so fast on our axis even though slow from a longer-lived perspective than our own and hurtling through space at speeds that definitely put our fastest vehicles to shame and yet we notice not one bit of this in the course of our lives until we notice it. Born with the natural immunity to it by our intricate series of natural shields and opposing forces which then gives us the idea for the technology to create space-travel vehicles that can be at a dead run and suddenly change direction by controlling their own gravitational center in inspiration given by what was already in nature.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:02 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:Honestly, Gravity is easy to figure out. We have a dense core of solid material intermixed with hidden pools of molten lava, deep water wells of underground oceans, rivers, etc. Our gravity comes from the fact that we spin on our axis giving the illusion of the sun setting and the moon waxing and waning, creating centripetal forces spinning, And then we're on a grander spin around the sun in it's orbit at high velocities that we are born into in the safety womb of our gravity cum atmospheric barrier between the heavy oxygen air that we can breathe to the seeming vaccum filled with more 'thin' winds that theoretically rip us apart. That's centrifugal force. Add to that the magnetic layers and barriers from the natural ores of our planet and the added blasts from the sun in terms of invisible energy since most flares don't even get close to us. Our emotional energy creates another barrier. Several layers of atmospheric conditions overlaying each other like so many layers of rock in a quarry create our breathing air, our protection from the sun, our barrier to space, and our gravity as we are born into being held to earth in much the same way as the ride at the fair that spins around and pins you to the wall. Just the same, but parts of the atmosphere naturally shield us from a lot of chaos and insanity of the outer-universe. Being born in the presence of an ongoing factor gives us a certain immunity to a lot of things up to a certain point and part of even that adds to the overall force that keeps us feet to solid ground.

We are spinning so fast on our axis even though slow from a longer-lived perspective than our own and hurtling through space at speeds that definitely put our fastest vehicles to shame and yet we notice not one bit of this in the course of our lives until we notice it. Born with the natural immunity to it by our intricate series of natural shields and opposing forces which then gives us the idea for the technology to create space-travel vehicles that can be at a dead run and suddenly change direction by controlling their own gravitational center in inspiration given by what was already in nature.

Quite imaginative, but ...
... nah.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25785
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: How gravity works

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:04 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:Honestly, Gravity is easy to figure out. We have a dense core of solid material intermixed with hidden pools of molten lava, deep water wells of underground oceans, rivers, etc. Our gravity comes from the fact that we spin on our axis giving the illusion of the sun setting and the moon waxing and waning, creating centripetal forces spinning, And then we're on a grander spin around the sun in it's orbit at high velocities that we are born into in the safety womb of our gravity cum atmospheric barrier between the heavy oxygen air that we can breathe to the seeming vaccum filled with more 'thin' winds that theoretically rip us apart. That's centrifugal force. Add to that the magnetic layers and barriers from the natural ores of our planet and the added blasts from the sun in terms of invisible energy since most flares don't even get close to us. Our emotional energy creates another barrier. Several layers of atmospheric conditions overlaying each other like so many layers of rock in a quarry create our breathing air, our protection from the sun, our barrier to space, and our gravity as we are born into being held to earth in much the same way as the ride at the fair that spins around and pins you to the wall. Just the same, but parts of the atmosphere naturally shield us from a lot of chaos and insanity of the outer-universe. Being born in the presence of an ongoing factor gives us a certain immunity to a lot of things up to a certain point and part of even that adds to the overall force that keeps us feet to solid ground.

We are spinning so fast on our axis even though slow from a longer-lived perspective than our own and hurtling through space at speeds that definitely put our fastest vehicles to shame and yet we notice not one bit of this in the course of our lives until we notice it. Born with the natural immunity to it by our intricate series of natural shields and opposing forces which then gives us the idea for the technology to create space-travel vehicles that can be at a dead run and suddenly change direction by controlling their own gravitational center in inspiration given by what was already in nature.

Quite imaginative, but ...
... nah.


I still don't find it funny.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:19 pm

"Funny"? :-s
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25785
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: How gravity works

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:25 pm

James S Saint wrote:"Funny"? :-s


You pretending that what I said isn't something of value. It's like, I'm sorry, who are you?
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:29 pm

Perhaps that's because I wasn't pretending.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25785
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: How gravity works

Postby barbarianhorde » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:16 pm

James S Saint wrote:
barbarianhorde wrote:Is it because Relativity is about average and not exact?
Maybe Relativity is statistical.

What you just described would be Quantum Physics. Relativity is merely a different ontology with a shortcut way of do the math. Relativity ontology only works in certain situations, so it is not "the real truth". But then it doesn't have to be merely to provide easier math.

No I know QP is statistics but because R is so simplified and doesnt give a model for the whole thing I wondered if it isnt also statistical.

I mean statistical where it compares this to that element in the same equation but it doesnt have a external standard to ground it and make it exact.

I mean even c isnt exact. As I learned here.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby barbarianhorde » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:24 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:Honestly, Gravity is easy to figure out. We have a dense core of solid material intermixed with hidden pools of molten lava, deep water wells of underground oceans, rivers, etc. Our gravity comes from the fact that we spin on our axis giving the illusion of the sun setting and the moon waxing and waning, creating centripetal forces spinning,

No this isnt correct because if it is, then the moon has no gravity because it dont spin on its axis. But it has gravity.

Plus its waning and waxing is to do with its orbit and the earths orbit not with its rotation.

And then we're on a grander spin around the sun in it's orbit at high velocities that we are born into in the safety womb of our gravity cum atmospheric barrier between the heavy oxygen air that we can breathe to the seeming vaccum filled with more 'thin' winds that theoretically rip us apart. That's centrifugal force. Add to that the magnetic layers and barriers from the natural ores of our planet and the added blasts from the sun in terms of invisible energy since most flares don't even get close to us. Our emotional energy creates another barrier.

I dont follow man what are you saying?
Arer you saying energy exists and it is awesome?
I know this but gravity isnt energy. It is between energy.

Several layers of atmospheric conditions overlaying each other like so many layers of rock in a quarry create our breathing air, our protection from the sun, our barrier to space, and our gravity as we are born into being held to earth in much the same way as the ride at the fair that spins around and pins you to the wall. Just the same, but parts of the atmosphere naturally shield us from a lot of chaos and insanity of the outer-universe. Being born in the presence of an ongoing factor gives us a certain immunity to a lot of things up to a certain point and part of even that adds to the overall force that keeps us feet to solid ground.

Yes this I can follow, we are born in gravity and we need it to keep existing.
If we would now be moved to Mars our childrens would have their bones grow through their heads.

We are spinning so fast on our axis even though slow from a longer-lived perspective than our own and hurtling through space at speeds that definitely put our fastest vehicles to shame and yet we notice not one bit of this in the course of our lives until we notice it. Born with the natural immunity to it by our intricate series of natural shields and opposing forces which then gives us the idea for the technology to create space-travel vehicles that can be at a dead run and suddenly change direction by controlling their own gravitational center in inspiration given by what was already in nature.

Which ideas for space-travel vehicles has it given you??
For me I can only think about using EM wormholes.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:40 pm

The moon has gravity because it is slightly spinning on its axis at the same time as spinning around the Earth at the same time as being caught in Earth's vortex of spinning at high speeds around the sun. The gravity there is less, because there are also less things growing on it, less living things to give oxygen, to create and craft a barrier of atmospheric pressure.

I never said that its waxing and waning had anything to do with its gravity, but in conjunction with the illusion of the sun setting and rising. It does not actually wax and wane. I shouldn't have had to spell that out for you, but you got too lofty in 'intellectual' thoughts and once again missed the obvious.

It is a theory that our bones would grow through our heads. Even if as exaggeration, you speak it as absolute truth, but some truth is to be found there just the same as people that dive too deeply into the oceans and try to rise too quickly back to the surface can die because of 'the bends'. They have to be staged through depressurization and slowly return to the surface.

I told you already what idea it gave me for space travel vehicles. You missed it for lack of trying to actually grasp the concept. You, like so many others, would rather just have things explained to you and learn absolutely nothing at all, so here it is: The idea is thus, that by moving at what some would not consider a dead run, all out, is still a dead run, all out with the idea in mind of moving slower than your all out and then using your own gravitational equipment in ship that would also give the atmospheric conditions in-ship for gravity, to then move at a dead run while seemingly moving in a straight line and then branching off in another direction at much higher speeds; the same concept shown in Armageddon as they used the gravity of the moon; a concept also similar in racing where they draft behind the lead car and then catapult, except the concept I'm explaining is to do so without another ship, without the moon, but with their own gravitronics. It is a fucking genius thought and Turtle is a dumbass.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby Amorphos » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:12 pm

Just a quick question; does photographic plate know the exact locations of the photons when they hit it? lol
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:46 am

Spin causes centrifugal "force" (outward), not centripetal (inward).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

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Re: How gravity works

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:01 pm

James S Saint wrote:Spin causes centrifugal "force" (outward), not centripetal (inward).



Not all rivers and streams flow south or downhill.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:35 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Spin causes centrifugal "force" (outward), not centripetal (inward).

Not all rivers and streams flow south or downhill.

That is because not all "south" is "downhill".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:50 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Spin causes centrifugal "force" (outward), not centripetal (inward).

Not all rivers and streams flow south or downhill.

That is because not all "south" is "downhill".


it's not just downhill. have any of you ever looked at or learned science at all? In science, it is taught that a majority of rivers and streams north of the equator flow south while those below the equator flow north, but this isn't an absolute. Some flow uphill as well due to water pressure and where they stem from, going against gravity, against the flow.

Come on and continue trying to sound smart with your arguments when you're all really just flying from seats of incompetence and ignorance without actually knowing any requisite and relating material.
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Re: How gravity works

Postby James S Saint » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:09 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:Come on and continue trying to sound smart with your arguments when you're all really just flying from seats of incompetence and ignorance without actually knowing any requisite and relating material.

Ever heard the term "sophomore syndrome"?
sophomore-syndrome wrote:At my dorm’s sophomore meeting, an RA warned us all about “sophomore syndrome.” She said that many sophomores, overwhelmed by no longer being the lowest on the totem pole, could get a little cocky. She reminded us, we are “not the best things to ever happen to Notre Dame.” This was met with surprise from many of my classmates. Common responses were “We don’t think that!” and “It’s not our fault that we’re awesome!”

Speculation and feelings of confident superiority does not constitute knowledge. You actually have many of your carts before their horses. But perhaps in a year or so, you will begin to realize that.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25785
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: How gravity works

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:15 pm

Yeah, but I have a leg to stand on scientifically and interweaving with nature to actually look at what is there. Do you have something to actually legitly contradict what I have theorized and hypothesized or are you just babbling?

I mean, I have NEVER EVER EVER had my philosophies or theories called sophomoric by the sycophantic jealous and envious.

And to prove that I used the word sycophantic properly:

syc·o·phan·tic
ˌsikəˈfan(t)ik/
adjective
adjective: sycophantic

behaving or done in an obsequious way in order to gain advantage.
"a sycophantic interview"


Considering that you all seem to not know what words mean, even when they're used in proper context.

Now, I should also show the definition for obsequious, because there might still be confusion:

ob·se·qui·ous
əbˈsēkwēəs/
adjective
adjective: obsequious

obedient or attentive to an excessive or servile degree.
"they were served by obsequious waiters"



You all will have to look up any other words you don't know.

But, the gist is that you all are acting in an obedient fashion, constraining and restraining your own emotions and responses in order to gain a tactical advantage over me, which directly conflicts with the fact that I'm actually right and you know it somewhere within you and it's tearing you all apart and you think you're getting stronger and smarter for it, but all it is is a way to keep idiots busy because you all refuse to do other than what you're doing, at least here and in this place if not all throughout your life, allowing for the fact that you are what you are here and in this manner, this placement and are different upon being viewed by others.
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