Science is Arbitrary.

Science is Arbitrary.

What is the difference between E=mc^2 and W&%TR$ and any old scribble ? None, only what it means to an observer that is defined, conditioned and programmed according to arbitrary pain/pleasure circuits, to what the consequences of the symbols associated to interactions and events can mean for the observer, what it implies in terms of what the observer’s mind and memory and thought paths feels and thinks and imagines what will happen according to some fixed invariants like “last as long as possible (don’t die)” or “avoid pain as much as possible”, and how the observer is forced to interact with the environment according to his pain/pleasure circuits, etc.

What we have is an infinite amplification of information, when information becomes significant, and it becomes significant only because it has consequences, implies direct pain/pleasure events on the subject that is “living” and “existing” within the world as “defined by the laws of physics” (but the laws of physics are a function of how the observer is designed: change the design of the observer and you change the laws of physics absolutely and completely, totally, no matter how brainwashed you are that the laws of physics are external absolute entities). So some quirk sequence of events, some quirk interaction like “throwing a person in fire” is irrelevant, is meaningless, is just a sequence of symbols, just equivalent to a random picture of pebbles on the street, but that particular sequence of events, that particuar interaction becomes infinitely important and significant and full of meaning and reality (when information becomes reality, becomes real, when information is no longer an abstraction but a real entity confirmed only according to some quirk pain/pleasure consequences and circuits) only because we are designed in a particular way, we interact with the world in a very particular but not absolute and objective way, but extremely quirky, flukey, arbitrary, a pure random circuit thrown into existence just because, for no deeper or further reason than that of Natural Evolution following some weird and random path and in the end defined us.

Hence all of our science and logic, all the laws of physics exist only because they have meaning to our pain/pleasure circuits and invariants we impose on existence like lasting long and avoiding pain.

But change the design of the “observer”, create completely new interactions and pain/pleasure circuits and thought paths, make it become a variant entity, no longer fixed as an absolute (as Man is the Measure of Everything: NOT, only this design of Man measures all, but change the design and you go into a new universe) and you get a whole new set of laws of physics, of universes, of realities, we only see a small slice of reality, reality is much larger, infinitely larger.

On another note, I read of a TV CRT company that produced 2 million CRTs a year with only 2,000 people in 1985, imagine how many CRTs they could have produced with a million people! But this is EXCESS CAPACITY, the Technological Economy that creates Free Wealth through huge economies of scale. But that CRT company is dead, closed, no longer operating: and this shows how all of the innovation and novelty and technological “advancements” only exist to create a new stage for a new competition and fight and see who wins and loses: just like the IPAD is the new arena where to fight and see who wins (when it is way more primitve to all the high class software and applications UNIX workstations and PC software created in the 1980s and 1990s), all innovation really means is changes to create a new arena to make corporations fight and win the game of competition: the last fight is finished, the winner is Apple, now let us start a new fight and see who wins, etc. Change for change’s sake, not for the advancement or well being of all or the general good, but only for subjectivities to confront and compete against each other (Nokia lost, but won the previous fight) and so on.

Always new items, always new changes, the fights continue forever, all new actors and items, but most of the items are useless crap, they only serve as a justification for the fight and competition, who brainwashed the most people of the “importance” of their new “device” or whatever.

.
I tend to disagree. Suppose all of us disappear due to an epidemic. Laws of physics will still control the planet, and the rest of the solar system. Science and logic are in our brains, but laws of physics exist independently, even before they are discovered by humans. This is one of self-evident truths to most scientists.
.

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/histor … apist.html

On delimitations: how are words subdivided, how far do they extend in space and time, what if the word existence had a trillion symbols, what if the word always changed, what if that word like any of hundreds of others needed to be said in a certain time, maybe a day or year or needed to be written in a certain size, how far does a word, concept or sentence - thought extend in time and space, how are they distinguished from each other, how does one word or thought flow into another, where are the delimitations, the repetitive patterns that make up thought, how do they become one different from another, why not change them, etc. A concept or word can last 3 years to say and the next sentence 3 seconds, and the next 50 years and the next extended in time and space and blended into each other, how items are delimited, how they are seperated and such. Modified minds will change all these delimitations, even just the thought of them changes them.

Patrizia:

On Italy, the place is a failed entity, has the worse housing bubble, real estate bubble ever that is waiting to explode, it has rent or mortgage prices like 1,200 euros a month with salaries of 800 euros a month, and home prices (for crappy one bedroom houses) 300,000 euros with salaries of 10,000 euros a year, 30 to 1, no place has such a huge real estate bubble, it will blow up, even though they don’t have property taxes because they are governed by real estate hogs and old hags, the place is doomed, failed, will collapse.

A group of persons, with their decoding of the universe, establish the laws that are valid for that group of persons, or better that group of entities designed and configured in a certain way, or better that particular combination of Mass - Energy, Matter a Man Brain is compared to other combinations of Mass - Energy in which the Man Brain is swimming. there is nothing fundamental, or absolute in the way the Man Brain is configured in terms of Matter compared to any other chunk of Matter. Hence, the Man Brain has no absolute reference to declare what the laws of physics are “independent of itself”, or when the Man Brain is “no longer around”: they are arbitrary, undefined, non existent and exist only when an observer declares them and lives them through particular circuits of pain/pleasure that make the information become real (as in if there where no consequences of pain/pleasure, there would be no information, nothing significant compared to anything else, only the particular configuration of pain/pleasure connected to interactions with the external world, and the decodings and information remembered through the experience and memory of the events provoking the pain/pleasure define the “laws of engagement of the observer with the observed”, the “laws of physics”, the universe).

So a set of “same observers” define “laws of engagements”, any other new set of observers designed differently would define new “laws of engagement” and so on. And then that set of 3 observers or 3 trillion of “same observers” (but they could all be different, hence no “common laws”) is just a chunk of Matter measuring other chunks of Matter: change that chunk of matter made up of the observers and you change how that new chunk of matter measures other chunks of matter, hence new laws of physics.

But mostly, the laws “independent from us” are at best valid only for a few billon or trillion years, and then they are no longer, or if the observer lived in snapshots of a second every hundred years, the laws would once again be different and so on.

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/histor … apist.html

“Italy has 2000 billions debts but the people have 8000 billions on their bank accounts…”

There is alot that can be said about this, but anyways:

I think the real number (as those 5 major EU countries are similar, UK, Spain, France, Germany and Italy) is 500 billion euors in banks (some 10 million families have 50,000 euros of money saved) and the 30 million homes in italy, of assumed value (hugely overpriced and a huge bubble!) of about 150,000 euros could be 4,500 billion euros, hence in all 5,000 billion euros (same for the other EU countries).

But this money is blocked, isn’t going anywhere, can’t be “invested in new jobs” or endeavors, can’t and especially won’t do anything, this money, especially the value of real estate is killing the economies by making it hard to open stores (high rents and costs), hard for young people to rent or buy, etc. This money is not an “asset”, it is actually a “liability”, it is used as a weapon to kill the weak and the economy, it is used to hurt people not to help people, this is because these real estate owners are all old hags, all old Hogs, all useless craps, that want to keep the prices high and in this way killing the future generation.

It would be correct for the real estate prices in all of the EU to go WAY DOWN, REALLY WAY DOWN something like 3 bedrooms houses or apartments should be valued at NO MORE THAN 50,000 EUROS in ROME, PARIS, LONDON, etc.

This won’t happen because the owners suck, simply suck, should be punished by huge property taxes (but aren’t ever going to be because the banks “assets” depend on hugely overpriced “real estate”), the same for the USA and JAPAN.

Kill real estate values, kill owners, kill the myth of property …

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/histor … apist.html

dude says:

"…seems to me you’re stating that “everything is relative”, yet in an absolutistic format that may contradict your premise.

how can you state a definitive truth about the laws of physics if you too are just spouting from a perch of relativity?"

I answer:

In fact I worship contradiction, I accept and consider contradiction a higher form of reasoning. But this absolutes based on relatives based on absolutes etc. are something I am well aware of and have often called them “Infinite Recursion” of Metaphysical entities, etc.

That is why “Our Mind is Always Wrong”, “There is No Truth” and other things I have said in all of my posts: study them all very carefully from nameta9 ilovephilosophy…

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/histor … apist.html

dude says:

“…not an answer. you’re saying you’re absolutely right that everything is relative…does not compute”

I answer:

Some things can be said about this, but in general what is said is only something saying the same thing to itself over and over again because we can’t perceive or distinguish any other world outside of our logic - language. But on a scale from 1 to 1000 of similarity and difference of Man Brains for example, the most similar Man Brain to us containing modified circuits could be 1 and for that Man Brain we can imagine that it is living in a new universe with new laws of physics. For the Modified Brain Mind corresponding to 2, we can probably no longer say anything at all about it, not even if it exists or where it exists, if it is in a point of space and/or time or anything else: in short our logic, our language, the principle of non contradiction breaks down, the limits of the observed universe are reached, so this chunk of Matter corresponding to a slightly modifed Mind Brain (but hugely different from ours through a huge amplification of differences since by changing the mind and its neural circuits, every slight change completely changes all possible reference systems in an extremely radical way) that then relates to other chunks of matter, that interacts and exchanges information with other chunks of matter lives, perceives and exists in something totally unconceivable for us, something simply undefined, infinitely different and far away from even the idea of it living in a new universe with new laws of physics. You can imagine what happens on the scale at 40 or 500 or 1,000.

In other words, our descriptions and language and logic can only deal with things similar to us, with things our mind can decode, but modified minds, nay, simply new chunks of matter configured in completely different ways interacting with other chunks of matter are outside of our range, cannot be dealt with in any way, cannot be a symbol within the symbols our language and thought deals with (unless we force it to be defined in a certain way, unless we force it, but by forcing it we are just making it all up, like even saying “modified minds enter new universes”, every word is defined and logical, but only to us…).

In a sense, only subjectivity exists, there are no absolutes, our mind configuration is a subjective quirk interacting with the universe. But since we can’t get out of the absolute represented by the neural circuits and thoughts and paths hardwired in our Man Brain, we can’t see how arbitrary and subjective it all really is. And then by using our very language and thought all we say is wrong from the outset, or neither wrong or right, simply a random association of symbols with other symbols just because, simply a random association of fake, made up information with other fake made up information.

But even all of the above is meaningless, worthless, is irrelevant, is just a game of language trying to get out of itself, but unable to, logic trying to be more than it is, to extend its range, when its range is limited by the very use of logic.

Therefore, stick wild chemicals and wild symbols, wild signals in the ball of meat that the brain is, just think about it, just lie to yourself, create the Instant Singularity on the fly, escape reality, kill reality, be wrong, always be wrong, misunderstand everything, just say lies, make up everything and assign it as true, love “fake”, kill “being right and true and false”, go crazy, be subjective and irrational like crazy, go man go, enter new universes and laws of physics, go man go, be god, kill god, contradict yourself like crazy always, go man go, always win, you win always, go man go, you can do it.

Worship Contradiction. Be as Contradictory as Possible. be as Wrong as Possible.

First gear, it’s all right, second gear hold on tight, third gear you’re out of sight! Groovy man, groovy…

TOBOR ATE MAN

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/histor … apist.html

weirdo says:

“I’d just like to add [as another wonderment in the Clusterfuck-ian firmament] that old-spidey-69’s devolution into writing (or cut-and-pasting) copy for some Chinese-supplied, Italian winter-wear company has me intrigued as to what medications he’s being fed, and in what dosages.
(Other insane folks, like myself, want to know!)”

I answer ( or he answers ? identity crisis ?):

Be crazy man! extreme subjectivity, you decide and invent reality, kill all other people, they will try to contradict you, be as subjective and wrong and irrational as possible, crazy rage violence, destroy all, you be god, go man go, you do it, we need normal - rational like a hole in the head. Be as subjective as possible, find no common ground with no one!

Just be your own boss, end of story.

A Man Brain - person is just a subjectivity that is being measured - controlled - carved out and guided by other Man Brains and their subjectivity, they present the refrence system against which your subjectivity is measured, defined, controlled and repressed, inhibited or allowed to process forward, but all of these Man Brains are reciprocally controlling evaluating and measuring, repressing inhibiting, interdicting, or permitting and allowing the others to go forward, towards certain paths, all against all, all measure all, all a reference for all, a reciprocal information relationship system existing only in terms of others, a play of reciprocal forces - actions and reactions in untold number of unpredictable ways, but the others are simply mirrors of one entity a Man Brain reflected an infinite number of times, infinite number of instances of one metaphysical entity controlling and measuring and repressing and contradicting itself, and so on. In short, other people don’t exist, they are fake, they exist only in your imagination, you are a Brain in a Vat.

Kill yourself, kill the system, blow up Brains and Man Brains, they will enter new dimensions, they will talk to angels, we need more New Age stuff Man, go for it…

TOBOR AN EIGHT MAN

TOBOR AN APE

I found this interesting confirmation of the idea that the laws of physics don’t exist, that a modified mind that interacts with the world will enter a new universe with new laws of physics. In essense there is “no absolute”, no reference, only the relation between entities, no objective and independent background such as space and time and anything else, only events, instantaneous events between two items, there is no background, everything is relative to everything else, is defined according to what it interacts with, etc. But the symbols of this language, the logic need a space to be written, to be expressed so this space should be the metaphysical background but it is not so, only the logical - mathematical path and relationships, the narrative exrpessing the interaction exists, but even this is just a sequence of symbols with no further necessity than itself, and as godel says, any system must have at least one arbitrary sentence, so then anything goes, even logic and mathematics and the narrative expressed breaks down, not even this is absolute, hence “contradiction” is the only truth, or no truth, etc.

From:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational … _mechanics

"Relational quantum mechanics (RQM) is an interpretation of quantum mechanics which treats the state of a quantum system as being observer-dependent, that is, the state is the relation between the observer and the system. "

“The physical content of the theory is thus not to do with objects themselves, but the relations between them. As Rovelli puts it: “Quantum mechanics is a theory about the physical description of physical systems relative to other systems, and this is a complete description of the world”.[2]”

The interaction, the Informational Relationships, the measurement of one item compared to another, this is the only thing that exists, if even only instantaneously, if even only fleeting (and this demonstrates that nothing exists, that we are just ghosts, and it also demonstrates that death is rational as death is the end of something that never existed like your life, etc.). But if the sentence “absolutes don’t exist” is true, how can that sentence be declared without some reference point, some minimum hinge ? It can be said because contradictions are acceptable, the physical world is essentially contradictory and we make it appear non contradictory when we observe it as the two sentences “absolutes don’t exist” and “absolutes exist” are just like wave functions, two contradicting states that exist at the same time and space and point (even if they exist in the same purely metaphysical arena of mathematics and logic which is without time and space and any points or extension) as in the “wave function—initially in a superposition of several different possible eigenstates”, a logical situation in a superposition of several logical values (true, false or something else ?).

But all of the above is false, self destroys itself, no it is true, but we should at least accept the narrative of the above path, the very fundamentals of science, knowledge increasing, the idea of progression, but no, we should try to know less and less, go backwards, subjectivity that becomes objectivity, when a virtual reality becomes the reality, etc.

The very fundamentals of science are demolished as science tries to find the invariants (absolutes ?) in a universe that makes fun of absolutes. Design a mind with any content, make it interact with any “fake reality”, that reality is real just as ours, as reality is only information (or is it fake just as ours ? where does it all go when we die ?), but especially the “relation interpretation” means that there is no future, no past, no real and fake, no truth, no space, no time, nothing, only an event, nothing is keeping score, it is all non existent.

On another note, the observer and system interact (two chunks of matter interact), but where does the observer start and system end ? and what if the observer lies to itself or an internal observer lies to the master observer ? So lies and making things up, making up all kinds of false ideas and things and anything is completely correct. Telling lies to yourself is correct as only lies exist.

Also from:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegmark

“Tegmark has also formulated the “Ultimate ensemble theory of everything”, whose only postulate is that “all structures that exist mathematically exist also physically”.”

can be turned into:

“all structures that exist logically, as a sequence of symbols, all metaphysical structures and inventions (nay any invention possible that you can think of no matter how wild and far out), even totally contradicting structures exist also physically”.

I’m sorry kowalskil, but I have to beg to differ on this. The “laws of physics” don’t really exist. What exists is space and energy, et cetera, and they are what they are. The laws of physics are derived by us from the way that they are. I can break a law, but I can’t destroy energy, and matter is made of it.

Note though that when I read a modified mind that interacts with the world will enter a new universe with new laws of physics, I beg to differ with that too. And some.

The laws of physics are derived by us from the way that WE are.

The principle of non contradiction is a falsification of reality, is not operating, has never operated if only in our mind. That explains everything, it explains why we are always running around in circles, why the sequence of symbols of the narratives that we create to describe the world never end: simply they never go anywhere, they never progress, as in the “progress” of science is a false idea. But as usual, even all of what is said in that previous sentence is false (or is it true ? or is it some other value ?) and so on in a never ending maze, a never ending puzzle that has no solution except the solution we pretend that it should have, the solution we invent, as “invention” is the real and only item we use when doing science: we invent all, the problems, the solutions, the reality or not, everything, therefore it is all false (or all real ?) and so on and such.

In Quantum Mechanics, The Observer, although assumed to be a simple entity (just a number in essence, a bit) however is really a complex chunk of matter as “we are the observer”, “we are the real Master Observer” and we have a brain as a chunk of matter that is complex, intricate with billions of circuits and such. So, already from here, we can see how our science always tries to simplify and ignore large chunks of reality (it practically reduces billions of molecules and signals and switches in our brain to a single bit, talk about invention and falsification of reality!) and from here we can already see that the observer can lie, can falsify what it observes, can make things up and such. And then is the observer observing itself or an “external” reality ? Where does it start and end ? the delimitations and such.

But this can be done because our consciousness, our perception of the world reduces it to a monolithic logical relationship that has no constituents, our consciousness makes reality appear completely monolithic, completely mathematical and logical, it reduces reality to a few bits and a few rules no matter how many pain/pleasure sensations and no matter how many signals we receive, we always perceive a simple monolithic chunk of pure existence and pure logic, nothing else, hence this gives the illusion of extreme simplicity, we see a one bit world and our consciousness delivers us a one bit monolithic world, bar none.

But change the design of the brain, make it perceive other entities, crash it up, make it different, we will enter a new universe (but who is we anyways ?)…

Also, the laws of Mass Energy are the laws of Mass Energy describing itself, talking to itself, therefore circular. A subset of Mass Energy is describing and manipulating and thinking and talking about a containing set (the larger set, but is it the entire set or always a subset of a larger set, etc. ?) but always of itself.

So Mass Energy discovers its own laws, encodes its own laws and declares them “the laws of physics” as if Mass Energy where outside of itself (or as if we being a chunk of Matter manipulating and interacting and describing another chunk of Matter where somehow outside of both chunks of Matter and objective, as if we were not made up of the very Mass Energy and Matter that the observed chunk of Matter is made up, as if we were in some external absolute reference system from which to measure and assign the “objective” laws of physics we discover).

Instead, we are simply Matter talking to itself, making itself up, inventing itself, creating itself, creating any “laws of physics” on the fly, just because, for fun, no necessity needed. But the illusion of objectivity is given by the detachment of our logic and language and mathematics that makes them appear external from the world and metaphysical, a denotation, an indirection, a symbol and as such gives the illusion of some “absolute or objective truth” and such. But it is not so there is nothing outside of anything, we are pure subjectivity, Mass Energy and Matter are pure subjectivity, there are no absolutes, but also no relatives, there is only contradiction, inventions, and universes that self think themselves into existence with any laws of physics they want just because, as in the Instant Singularity becomes a new universe just by thinking about it, after all, our thought and consciousness lives in a pure metaphysical monolithic reference system independent of everything, because if it had even one slight dependency on anything else, it would be void of any consistency and therefore would completely collapse upon itself through internal contradictions since it would be simply circular reasoning, it would simply be talking to itself and lying to itself. But isn’t that what we do ? Isn’t that what Matter does when it talks to itself through us ?

Anyways those blocks of texts sound cool, who cares if it doesn’t make any sense or if it is all wrong. Be as wrong as possible, make things up, lie. Worship Lying to yourself and to all and especially to Matter.

We describe “another universe” with “new laws of physics” using our universe with these laws of physics. That means we use this universe’s logic, mathematics, language symbols, etc. So, in essence, no matter how wild and far out the new universe with new laws of physics we describe or invent is, it is essentially always this universe with these laws of physics no matter what, since this universe implies this logic, language, mathematics and this particular brain structure to process it all and perceive it all.

But to really go into a new universe with new laws of physics, the only way is to radically modify the brain structure and the decoding - encoding of information, sensations, whatever. Of course this means that the new universe has no relation to anything and everything we already know, it can’t be described within our language or thought, etc. It is not observable.

As a corollary, any universe with new laws of physics that we can think up of, that we can invent and imagine is essentially just a subset of this universe, is just a system that exists within this universe and is not really outside of ours. Even a wildly abstract metaphysical universe, like a non mathematical universe, or a totally contradicting universe, or a universe in which logic - language and thought cannot be used, in short, no matter how inconsistent and contradictory, no matter how totally incomprehensible the new universe we describe - invent is, it really remains a subset of ours, as it can still be related in some way to ours (like “thought by our brain, which is part of this universe” ?), if even very remotely, if even we describe it as having “no relationship at all to our universe - laws of physics”, if even it is described as “totally non related to our universe and us”, it still is related as it still can be described by a sequence of symbols in our universe and compared to ours, we can still use our language to describe it, even if the description is all wrong, etc.

As in all information is real, as in all of the laws of physics are just Informational Relationships, therefore we can invent trillions of new universes.

But something interesting happens: since any universe we invent and imagine with new laws of physics is a subset of this universe, then we can just assign a new universe that is defined as not being a subset of this universe, as being really completely outside of this universe, and as being totally unrelated, therefore we really can create - invent - assign a 100 % new universe with new laws of physics outside of ours. And we can assign that universe as being trillions of times more real than ours, and assign our universe as a subset of that new one, or anything else. In short we can invent - assign - lie, make up anything and assign it as true, and it becomes true, etc.

Therefore any combination of words, concepts and symbols, any thought, anything, no matter how abstract, even if it is 100 % noise and random, no matter what, anything is a completely new universe with new laws of physics, in short, you are now free to invent anything you want, it is all true (and false, who cares, true and false can be redefined and manipulated as you want), any concept, a sequence of symbols, any relationship you want entities and items to have, just assign it, it is true and valid, etc.