Higgs-boson has been found?

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Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:04 pm

the rumor out of CERN is they will announce they have all but seen the elusive Higgs-boson particle.
this announcement will be made on july fourth. If true, it may, may be the final piece of the puzzle
to the grand unification theory that has puzzled scientist since Einstein. the question now becomes, what is next?
It may take years for the implications to trickle through physics.
will it lead to time-travel? I doubt it. will it lead to flying cars? doubt it.
will it lead to star trek physics? Perhaps in a few centuries, but for now all it means
is we might have the basis on which the universe functions on. Of all the forces, the hardest
one to get a grasp of is gravity and this might lead us to a better understanding of gravity. Of all the forces,
gravity seems to be the one that is the key to everything. everything that exists, may exist because of gravity.
the stars, galaxies, the planets, even life itself may come about because of gravity. Look for very exciting news to flow
from this announcement in the years to come.

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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Typist » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:11 pm

http://www.sciencechatforum.com/viewtop ... =2&t=22208

Poster Lincoln works at the Fermi Lab, and seems well informed on these topics.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:09 pm

Wiki wrote:"God particle" redirects here. For the book, see The God Particle (book). For the "Oh-my-God particle", see Ultra-high-energy cosmic ray.

The Higgs boson is a hypothetical elementary particle predicted by the Standard Model (SM) of particle physics. It belongs to a class of particles known as bosons, characterized by an integer value of their spin quantum number. The Higgs field is a quantum field that fills all of space, and explains why fundamental particles (or elementary particles) such as quarks and electrons have mass. The Higgs boson is an excitation of the Higgs field above its ground state.

The existence of the Higgs boson is predicted by the Standard Model to explain how spontaneous breaking of electroweak symmetry (the Higgs mechanism) takes place in nature, which in turn explains why other elementary particles have mass.[Note 1] Its discovery would further validate the Standard Model as essentially correct, as it is the only elementary particle predicted by the Standard Model that has not yet been observed in particle physics experiments.[2] The Standard Model completely fixes the properties of the Higgs boson, except for its mass. It is expected to have no spin and no electric or color charge, and it interacts with other particles through weak interaction and Yukawa interactions. Alternative sources of the Higgs mechanism that do not need the Higgs boson are also possible and would be considered if the existence of the Higgs boson were ruled out. They are known as Higgsless models.

Experiments to determine whether the Higgs boson exists are currently being performed using the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN, and were performed at Fermilab's Tevatron until its closure in late 2011. Mathematical consistency of the Standard Model requires that any mechanism capable of generating the masses of elementary particles become visible at energies above 1.4 TeV;[3] therefore, the LHC (designed to collide two 7-TeV proton beams) is expected to be able to answer the question of whether or not the Higgs boson actually exists.[4] In December 2011, Fabiola Gianotti and Guido Tonelli, spokespersons of the two main experiments at the LHC (ATLAS and CMS) both reported independently that their data hints at a possibility the Higgs may exist with a mass around 125 GeV/c2 (about 133 proton masses, on the order of 10−25 kg). They also reported that the original range under investigation has been narrowed down considerably and that a mass outside approximately 115–130 GeV/c2 is almost ruled out.[5] No conclusive answer yet exists, although it is expected that the LHC will provide sufficient data by the end of 2012 for a definite answer

God is not a particle.
But that isn't going to stop the Quantum Magi from waving their wand of mathematical models before the curtain of distant experiments and causing one to appear before your very eyes. No matter what happens in their experiment, they will show you the "God particle" and proclaim proof of the ultimate formula for the "Unified Field Theory".

The QM "Standard Model" is neither fundamental nor accurate.

part-nonflash.gif
part-nonflash.gif (18.26 KiB) Viewed 3225 times


See all of those that say they are observed "indirectly"?
What that means is that they proposed that they existed, looked for evidence for their proposal, found some possible evidence, and proclaimed empirical evidence of existence. Take all of those out of the picture of what has been actually found and see what is left. Add to that, that even knowing that you have actually seen a particle is pretty tough, thus if you try to see it hard enough, you will see what(ever) you are looking so intently to find. If you don't see it, you simply aren't looking hard enough... or perhaps lack sufficient mathematical skills and an open mind. QM is about mathematically declared entities, not physical entities.

"Particles" that are purported to be within particles, are not particles (self-sustaining entities). They cannot exist on their own because they are merely a variant portion of an actual particle. Very few actual particles are self sustaining enough to be seen by the methods currently available. And even most of those are not stable enough to exist for long.

If you need to know why "it" happens, invent a force and a particle, watch "it" happen, and see the proof of both your particle and your force. How can you go wrong? It is about gloried car mechanics insistent on finding the spark plug inside the gasoline molecule that causes it to burn. Without a rational philosopher by their side, they will be certain to know that they found it.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Amorphos » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:22 pm

Hopefully this is a valid question;

What I want to know is if the higgs boson would contain all non-collocative informations?

Otherwise you got info coming in from sources external to fundamental particles.

Or no information et all, which would surely mean that there is nothing which denotes what a higgs boson is like, it just appears and is what it is?
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby jonquil » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:27 pm

This is so exciting! Yes, a HIggs boson has been found. Watch this BBC video where Higgs himself speaks towards the end, around 2:20. It's so moving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

Also see:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... iggs-boson

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... s-new-high
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Typist » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:24 pm

Billions of dollars spent. Billions of dollars. Somebody please tell me what practical benefit for real people has been derived.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:53 pm

Typist wrote:Billions of dollars spent. Billions of dollars. Somebody please tell me what practical benefit for real people has been derived.

"They" are trying desperately to prove themselves to be the ultimate prophets. The "benefit" is ego and influence over all of those who got captured into the belief and hold to the faith (as with all of the other religions). QM is merely the modern version of numerology.. applying numbers to all things in hopes of being able to apply numbers to predict future events and thus be the king's elite "soothsayer".

It is a way to get paid for eventually getting into the position of extorting the kingdom through creating sufficient belief that when anything is predicted, the believers will cause it to happen, and thus further prove their right to be respected. And then, "reward me, else I might have to predict your downfall".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Amorphos » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:34 pm

There would be a massive amount of energy in them there higgs bosons, should be something we can do with that if we can get hold of it. They could unravel many further secrets about existence, how it came about etc.

Money well spent imho, we’d have only pissed it up the wall on shit products, drink and drugs etc.
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:54 pm

Amorphos wrote:There would be a massive amount of energy in them there higgs bosons, should be something we can do with that if we can get hold of it. They could unravel many further secrets about existence, how it came about etc.

Money well spent imho, we’d have only pissed it up the wall on shit products, drink and drugs etc.

And for what exactly would the "energy" be spent? :-s
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Amorphos » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:22 pm

And for what exactly would the "energy" be spent?


Oh! Well I was thinking for electricity and general energy use, but now I am thinking nukes multiplied by oblivion *gasp*.
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:43 pm

In the long run, it is always merely someone's passion. The only question is Who's and whether it was related to actual need.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby jonquil » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:45 am

Here is an article called "A Closer Look at the Higgs Boson" which deals in part with practical results. Whether you consider the high cost of particle research worth it or not is your own business, but at least there are some practical benefits. See:

http://apnews.excite.com/article/201207 ... 7AL82.html
WERE THERE ANY PRACTICAL RESULTS FROM THE SEARCH?

Not directly. But the massive scientific effort that led up to the discovery has paid off in other ways, one of which was the creation of the World Wide Web. CERN scientists developed it to make it easier to exchange information among each other. The vast computing power needed to crunch all of the data produced by the atom smasher has also boosted the development of distributed - or cloud - computing, which is now making its way into mainstream services. Advances in solar energy capture, medical imaging and proton therapy - used in the fight against cancer - have also resulted from the work of particle physicists at CERN and elsewhere.


Of course, there is more to life than practicality for some people. Somehow there is a way that math and science move into pure poetry and at some point pure source. Calling it the "God particle" provides a kind of mystical dimension to the mystery and the search for ultimate answers to our existence and that of the universe and the way it works. But of course that doesn't help the people living in cars worrying about police harassment, or those wondering how long they'll see a paycheck or whether they can even get healthcare, much less "proton therapy." And of course the mental dimensions of studies like these seem like another world entirely from our little legislative and schoolboard fights over science texts, what and how to teach, even to the point of wanting to ban the teaching of critical thinking skills. Our smallminded, materialistic, oversimplified religious fearmongering really look so petty in comparison to high mental and scientific achievements. But there are many many billions of dollars enough sunk in the kind of pettiness that can and do destroy worlds; so it's nice now and then to see achievements that soar above it all if only for a little while.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby PhysBang » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:22 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Typist wrote:Billions of dollars spent. Billions of dollars. Somebody please tell me what practical benefit for real people has been derived.

"They" are trying desperately to prove themselves to be the ultimate prophets. The "benefit" is ego and influence over all of those who got captured into the belief and hold to the faith (as with all of the other religions). QM is merely the modern version of numerology.. applying numbers to all things in hopes of being able to apply numbers to predict future events and thus be the king's elite "soothsayer".

It is a way to get paid for eventually getting into the position of extorting the kingdom through creating sufficient belief that when anything is predicted, the believers will cause it to happen, and thus further prove their right to be respected. And then, "reward me, else I might have to predict your downfall".

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

James, you are trying to create an entirely a priori metaphysical account of the universe, one which you claim can account for all disciplines including physics, even though you can't actually do any physics whatsoever, with or without your "Rational Metaphysics". Could it be you who wants to become a modern soothsayer? Could it be that you are projecting your desire for ultimate control over scientists and that you don't really understand what they do or their motivations?
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Typist » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:32 pm

My arguments is as follows...

Human beings are insane. We have thousands of nuclear weapons, an extinction machine of our own design, pointed down our own throats. In addition, we are destroying the environment we depend on, the only environment we have, as fast as we possibly can.

Science didn't make us insane, but it is science which is giving us the power to do ever more damage with our insanity.

We're like a 14 year old kid who is causing lots of trouble in the neighborhood, and science wants to hand us a car, a case of booze, and a gun.

Billions spent on the Higgs, with no actual practical benefit identified, other than dreamy wonderment for physics nerds. We have more important business to be attending to.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:50 pm

Typist wrote:My arguments is as follows...

Human beings are insane. We have thousands of nuclear weapons, an extinction machine of our own design, pointed down our own throats. In addition, we are destroying the environment we depend on, the only environment we have, as fast as we possibly can.

Science didn't make us insane, but it is science which is giving us the power to do ever more damage with our insanity.

We're like a 14 year old kid who is causing lots of trouble in the neighborhood, and science wants to hand us a car, a case of booze, and a gun.

Billions spent on the Higgs, with no actual practical benefit identified, other than dreamy wonderment for physics nerds. We have more important business to be attending to.

Exactly right.

Although the reason they are willing to spend your money and efforts on such things (without asking you) is for the side benefits. As they invest into and investigate how to achieve the dream, they discover how to achieve control of the dreamers.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Amorphos » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:51 pm

I mostly agree but…

We have more important business to be attending to.


Wont there always be problems especially societal ones, even if we sorted them out more would follow.
Better to concentrate somewhat on permanent things rather than transient issues.
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:14 pm

The Higgs boson is about as permanent as Geocentrism.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Gamer » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:50 pm

But how does this new data released on the 4th tell most physicists more about the higgs field than they already knew on July 4th 2011? Please tell me if I'm wrong but isn't finding the boson more of an honorary milestone than an actionable cornerstone? From where I'm sitting it looks like a great marketing pitch, having the boson itself as a logo for the show-me mentality of a populace that doesn't find science so sexy. It's a logo for a product that was found years ago – the higgs field. I hope this hype of the boson will help science and get people more into science in general.

The more I delve into it, the more I feel let down, and that this was a technicality, and that the real exciting questions and answers about the higgs field are years away. is this the case for anyone else?

I'm happy for Peter Higgs, and for the duo of Bose-Einstein. Especially Bose, he got the better half of that deal. i hope this helps science funding for everyone, and helps the idea of science for the sake of knowledge, across all fields of scientific practice.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby THOR » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:22 am

What does it matter if its been found? No pun inteded.
It cant beproved that atoms exist. You can't see atoms
It cant be proved that protons exist.
It cant be proved that neutrons exist
It can't be proved that yeserday existed
This last statement is true because the universe could have been created, say 5 seconds ago with all the memories that people have.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Amorphos » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:26 am

This last statement is true because the universe could have been created, say 5 seconds ago with all the memories that people have.


Yes but it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasnt’t.

That was said in more than 5 seconds. :P

take my point tho.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby tentative » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:48 am

Typist,

You say we have more important things to attend to, and we certainly have a lot of things that need attention, but your comment has been made at every step of basic R&D scientific research effort. No one could figure out what to do with nylon when it was first whipped up by accident. The same thing for silicone. Half of the technological innovations we enjoy today came about because of that stupid program to put men on the moon. And what? Did they bring us back any green cheese? Worthless throwing money away.

Yeah, we had theories about the Higgs and what it could imply for future investigation, but we now have confirmation. That's a bit different proposition. The CERN collider is barely at half it's potential power. They'll shut down for a year for maintainance and who knows what they'll find after that? That there is no immediate practical application in the discovery is a given - just the same for every other major scientific discovery. Electricity was rubbing a piece of amber on cat fur for the amusement of the audience. Practical applications take a little longer than immediately upon discovery.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby Slow John » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:40 pm

I agree, tentative.

In the meantime, talk of the higgs field could bring pleasure for its own sake.

I feel the pleasure is muted by the fact that nobody really doubted there would be a higgs particle, or that it's a boson.

its job today seems more than anything to imbue mass to science itself.

the boson confirmation just means the LHC works as expected.

when 12 year olds are talking about bosons instead of kardashian for five seconds, somebody's getting $.

that five seconds releases $ particles.

i hope it finds its way to the scientists to continue to find the really cool stuff, so that finding money isn't always such a fucking grind.

dark matter. gravitons. anti-protons, etc. and where the higgs field(s) came from.

yes we need to feed the world, too, and end slavery, but any time we listen to science I believe is good for the world's woes.

scientists aren't the reason why the world is fucked up, they're the solution.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby tentative » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:48 pm

High energy particle physics is facinating and confusing at the same time. As a numbnuts, I follow along as best I can, but it's like visiting a zoo on an alien planet. So many animals with so many different properties and many animals that may only come into a physical state for a millionth of a second before shape-shifting into a different critter.

What CERN is doing allows us to peer into the heart of stars where everything we are and have come from. The knowledge we gain may not have any immediate application, but if that knowledge allows us to explain and predict, it is enough in itself.

This is an aside, but.... Are you familiar with 3D printing? The technology took advantage of lasers fusing plastic powder into a layered form controlled by computer formatting. Originally, it was an application designed to make quick prototypes for what had previously been slow laborious machining technology. About six months ago, a company in Britain was using the technology to make intricate chocolate candies. Last week, I read an article about some MIT people that have figured out a way to create 'pathways' for blood vessel growth that, when surrounded by liver cells, can grow living function liver tissue. It's quite possible to kill your liver with alcohol and when it dies, just print out a new one. Obviously, there is a wee bit more to it than that, but the point is that in the beginning, no one thought of connecting lasers, computers, and a fusable material to produce body parts. What basic R&D ultimately creates can go into interesting places.
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I don't take know for an answer.
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:46 pm

tentative wrote:Last week, I read an article about some MIT people that have figured out a way to create 'pathways' for blood vessel growth that, when surrounded by liver cells, can grow living function liver tissue. It's quite possible to kill your liver with alcohol and when it dies, just print out a new one. Obviously, there is a wee bit more to it than that, but the point is that in the beginning, no one thought of connecting lasers, computers, and a fusable material to produce body parts. What basic R&D ultimately creates can go into interesting places.

That kind of thing is the actual good. The problem is the cost it takes to merely inspire that kind of work, not to actually do it.

The Higgs thing is very much like watching high density clouds for a Higgs-rabbit to appear and then proclaiming that "we have proven that life stems from the clouds".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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James S Saint
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Re: Higgs-boson has been found?

Postby tentative » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:42 pm

JSS,
The problem is the cost it takes to merely inspire that kind of work, not to actually do it.
Do you mean the money and time wasted in court challenges because the luddites were absolutely positive that CERN would create black holes and destroy the universe? Yeah, the costs of that sort of bullshit was enormous.
The Higgs thing is very much like watching high density clouds for a Higgs-rabbit to appear and then proclaiming that "we have proven that life stems from the clouds".
Very true, with the exception that we can say we know a little bit more about HOW life comes from the heart of a star. And we aren't done yet. As a specie, we have managed to fuck up our support system so badly, that technology is the only alternative to a massive human die-back. I'm 50-50 on that proposition, but it doesn't keep me from being fascinated with the potential being unlocked every day at the leading edge of scientific discovery.
IGAYRCCFYVM
Sorry, arguing with the ignorant is like trying to wrestle with a jellyfish. No matter how many tentacles you cut off there are always more, and there isn't even a brain to stun. - Maia

I don't take know for an answer.
tentative
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