What do you think about the year „0“?

For discussing anything related to physics, biology, chemistry, mathematics, and their practical applications.

Moderator: Flannel Jesus

What do you think about the year „0“?

1) The year „0“ is no year like the other years.
3
100%
2) The year „0“ is a year with 365 days.
0
No votes
3) The year „0“ is a year with 366 days, thus a leapyear.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 3

What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:01 am

What do you think about the year „0“?

Possible answers are (for example):

1) The year „0“ is no year like the other years.
2) The year „0“ is a year with 365 days.
3) The year „0“ is a year with 366 days, thus a leapyear.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:13 pm

I have no idea what you are talking about. :confusion-scratchheadblue:
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:17 pm

I am talking about the year "0" ("Zero") and its meaning, especially its calendrical significance.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby James S Saint » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:35 pm

Arminius wrote:I am talking about the year "0" ("Zero") and its meaning, especially its calendrical significance.

I guess it would depend on who's calender you are using. I am not much into arbitrary assignments. I suspect that the concept of "year zero" would be tough for most people, educated or not, during that time in all parts of the world. So most calender attempts would begin with "year one". Now that world domination through systematic technology has taken over, new calenders will include "year zero" to meet the dictated world standard (ISO). "The Emperor has spoken".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Orbie » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:39 pm

The year 0 has significance for a very important reason, beyond the choices You have demarked. It is the year of Christ's birth. Marry Christmas!
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:21 pm

James S Saint wrote:I guess it would depend on who's calender you are using. I am not much into arbitrary assignments. I suspect that the concept of "year zero" would be tough for most people, educated or not, during that time in all parts of the world. So most calender attempts would begin with "year one". Now that world domination through systematic technology has taken over, new calenders will include "year zero" to meet the dictated world standard (ISO). "The Emperor has spoken".

The year "0" is generally accepted everywhere, isn't it?

The question as the topic of this thread refers also to the phenomenon that a year "zero" is or is not like the other years. Actually the year "zero" has zero days, zero months, zero weeks, zero days, zero hours, zero minutes, zero seconds; so the year "zero" is merley something like the number zero.

Orb wrote:The year 0 has significance for a very important reason, beyond the choices You have demarked. It is the year of Christ's birth. Marry Christmas!

Yes, it is, at least it was planned, because today it is more likely to assume that Christ was born five or seven years before the year zero. But the intention was to mark Christ's birth, yes.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Orbie » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:04 pm

Arminius, it depends what calculations are used. According to Joesphus' You may be correct. However, another calculation by Dionysus the Little, the date can be perfectly aligned, fixing His birth @ December 25, 1BC, and his circumcision @ Jan 1, AD 1.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:27 pm

I referred to astronomers, who interpreted the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as the "Star of Bethlehem". This conjunction took place in the year 7 to 5 BC.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Orbie » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:41 pm

5 out of 2000 + years,- without having my calculator with me-is roughly a +- 2% divergence from 0. So the net effect, can easily be ascribed to the various ways it may be interpreted. It is surprising that such minimal error can be sustained through all the annals of passed time.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:00 pm

But nevertheless, the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as the "Star of Bethlehem" is not a sure evidence.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Flannel Jesus » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:50 pm

Arminius wrote:
Orb wrote:The year 0 has significance for a very important reason, beyond the choices You have demarked. It is the year of Christ's birth. Marry Christmas!

Yes, it is, at least it was planned, because today it is more likely to assume that Christ was born five or seven years before the year zero. But the intention was to mark Christ's birth, yes.

You're both wrong
Year zero does not exist in the Anno Domini/Common Era system usually used to number years in the Gregorian calendar and in its predecessor, the Julian calendar. In this system, the year 1 BC is followed by AD 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_%28year%29
If you're talking about the calandar system most commonly used in the west (it sounds like you are, but correct me if I'm wrong), there is no year 0.
User avatar
Flannel Jesus
For Your Health
 
Posts: 5161
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:22 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote:You're both wrong.

No, you are wrong.

I am not saying that the year "zero" exists, because I am saying that the year "zero" is not like the other years, and this means that the year is merely similar to the mathematical number zero, thus the year "zero" does not exist like the other years. That is what I am saying. Thus I am right.

Arminius wrote:The question as the topic of this thread refers also to the phenomenon that a year "zero" is or is not like the other years. Actually the year "zero" has zero days, zero months, zero weeks, zero days, zero hours, zero minutes, zero seconds; so the year "zero" is merley something like the number zero.
|=>#

Compare also the only one vote which is mine: "1) The year '0' is no year like the other years." |=>#
Compare also the quotation marks I always put when referring to the year "zero". |=># |=># |=>#

But I am also saying that the year "zero" is accepted, namely as a mark (Christ's birth) but not as a year like every other year. Thus the year "zero" does not exist as a year but as a mark (and otherwise it is like nothing or like the number zero).
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Flannel Jesus » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:58 pm

Arminius wrote:
Flannel Jesus wrote:You're both wrong.

No, you are wrong.

I am not saying that the year "zero" exists, because I am saying that the year "zero" is not like the other years, and this means that the year is merely similar to the mathematical number zero, thus the year "zero" does not exist like the other years. That is what I am saying. Thus I am right.

Maybe you said that in a different post, and I don't know whether it's right or not because it doesn't really seem particularly meaningful to me.

But what you said in the post was that year 0 was intended to mark Christ's birth. Year 0 wasn't intended for anything, because the calendar we're talking about doesn't have a year 0.
User avatar
Flannel Jesus
For Your Health
 
Posts: 5161
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:24 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote:
Arminius wrote:
Flannel Jesus wrote:You're both wrong.

No, you are wrong.

I am not saying that the year "zero" exists, because I am saying that the year "zero" is not like the other years, and this means that the year is merely similar to the mathematical number zero, thus the year "zero" does not exist like the other years. That is what I am saying. Thus I am right.

Maybe you said that in a different post ....

Yes, for example in this post:

Arminius wrote:The question as the topic of this thread refers also to the phenomenon that a year "zero" is or is not like the other years. Actually the year "zero" has zero days, zero months, zero weeks, zero days, zero hours, zero minutes, zero seconds; so the year "zero" is merley something like the number zero.
|=>#

Flannel Jesus wrote:But what you said in the post was that year 0 was intended to mark Christ's birth.

Yes, and that is what I said. I said that the year "0" or "zero" (please note the quotation marks!) is not like the other years (they consist of 365 or 366 days), but it is a mark (Christ's birth) which was put by the Christian (Catholic) Church. That is the reason for the distinction of ante Christum (before Christ) and post Christum (after Christ).

Flannel Jesus wrote:Year 0 wasn't intended for anything, because the calendar we're talking about doesn't have a year 0.

You are wrong. The distinction of ante Christum (before Christ) and post Christum (after Christ) was intended (see above). That does not require a year but a mark, namely "0".
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Flannel Jesus » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:55 pm

That might have been a feasible argument if Jesus were supposed to have been born on Jan 1 or Dec 31, so that you could somehow say he was born between 1 BC and 1 AD. But that's never been thought of as his birth date.

In fact, the person who decided when year 1 AD was going to be decided it to start 1 week AFTER Jesus' birth (or what he thought was the date of Jesus' birth, rather). It was never meant to be 0.
User avatar
Flannel Jesus
For Your Health
 
Posts: 5161
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 pm

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:05 am

This thread should also or especially be about the number zero and its usefulness. When the church introduced the calendar with the "year zero" it was meant as a mark, to show the difference, the holy distinction:

Arminius wrote:The distinction of ante Christum (before Christ) and post Christum (after Christ) was intended (see above). That does not require a year but a mark, namely "0".


The "year zero" can't really be a year just because of the definition of "zero" but it can be a mark, can make a distinction. That is what I am saying. And the church used it in exactly that way.

If one has years before Christ and years after Christ, then one can count backwards into the infinity and forwards into the infinity. The church could say that it was Jesus as the hub of the world who makes the difference, the holy distinction.

But my interest is the number zero - in both a natural sense and a cultural sense.

Zero can be interpreted as nothing / nothingness, as the beginning of the universe ("big bang"), although that beginning must be mathematically/logically false because of the definition of "zero", as a cultural mark (i.e. the Occidental calendar), and of course as a mere number.

_______________________________________


Image

Merry Christmas!
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby James S Saint » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:30 am

    Image
    Merry Christmas!

:handgestures-thumbup: :occasion-xmas: :occasion-santa: :text-merryxmas:
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:39 pm

Orb wrote:The year 0 has significance for a very important reason, beyond the choices You have demarked. It is the year of Christ's birth. Marry Christmas!


No sweet Rumi. The 0 is not a year, it is the timeless moment before creation...it is the standstill before the ad continuum. Do you see that emptiness within that zero? It was perfect and then came the chaos being represented with the number 1. lol
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15681
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Orbie » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:51 pm

Actually, there never was a year 0, right, but a putative interpretation creates this seeming dilemma.

The fact is, the calendar which differentiates AD from Bc eas created much later, after Christ's birth, before that the Roman or the Common calendar did not exist. The Romans had a calendar which originated from the time of Rome's founding. The zero was a putative interpretation, and it did become an existential enumeration of the passage of time, but only asa post script. So those who said Christ was born in year zero, were both, right and wrong.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Orbie » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:55 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Orb wrote:The year 0 has significance for a very important reason, beyond the choices You have demarked. It is the year of Christ's birth. Marry Christmas!


Arc, You are right, but not only in terms of AD, but in terms of absolute time, before the BC/AD differentiation.



No sweet Rumi. The 0 is not a year, it is the timeless moment before creation...it is the standstill before

the ad continuum. Do you see that emptiness within that zero? It was perfect and then came the chaos being represented with the number 1. lol


Arc, the zero You are talking about is the one which nihilized time, because time becomes the funtion of the limites to the nearness to the original creation, hence, where time expands toward infinity as the limits are reached to the beginning. At .0000000000000000000000000000009999999999999999999999-to wihin the critical point, there is an instant where time annihilates, therefore nullifyig the concept of the creation, or the origin of the world.
Threfore, there is no beginning, and it seems, no end.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:11 pm

Orbie,

Arc, the zero You are talking about is the one which nihilized time, because time becomes the funtion of the limites to the nearness to the original creation, hence, where time expands toward infinity as the limits are reached to the beginning. At .0000000000000000000000000000009999999999999999999999-to wihin the critical point, there is an instant where time annihilates, therefore nullifyig the concept of the creation, or the origin of the world.
Threfore, there is no beginning, and it seems, no end.


:evilfun: I was just waxing meaninglessly poetic. What do I know of such things like "0"? Well, I suppose I did have something in this "brain" of mine.
How could my "0" nihilize time since time didn't exist in that moment? Is something capable of becoming nothing which hithertoo has not existed? Hindsight means nothing.

At .0000000000000000000000000000009999999999999999999999-to wihin the critical point, there is an instant where time annihilates, therefore nullifyig the concept of the creation, or the origin of the world

Damn, I'm so jealous of you smart guys and girls in here. Why have I been given such a puny brain? O/K me thinks. :-k
#-o You know, you're not exactly speaking with "Sheldon" here, Orbie.
Time annihilates or is time annihilated? Anyway, I don't get it. Isn't the "reality" that there is not only a concept of creation or the origin of the world but that it does exist albeit perhaps totally in a way we see it with our puny brains.
I'm not a mathematician nor a physicist as you can see. But I'm learning that I'm much more pragmatic than I thought.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15681
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Orbie » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:13 pm

Dear Arc:

Neither am i,a mathematician, have inkling of it from popular science periodicals, and i still remeber Minnesota I stitute od Technology, where i spent 2 ears before deciding by reflecing on the grades i were receiving, that maybe just maybe science was not for me.

So please do not get me wrong, but at the time i felt sabotaged by sciety, parnts, and the drugs which were beginning to kick in, to drop out.

Talking of time, we are drawing to the end of anoter year, ans as far as i and manh of those whom i still know (of) are saying, thay anything is an improvement which went down this year.

In with the new, s they say!


What seems true to a cetain extent to me, neverthe less, is, that there is some kind of cosmic universal, and inner time, in addition tomthe one enimating from the one hanging and ticking on the wall, and this is totally different from the silece which surounds
the time, whose only evidence rests, in the oftly bending breeze, and the slowly churning waterwheel of a deeply hidden brook.




As the concept of how the world began, this hiddenness becomes more and more evident, and our notion of time has some correspondence to it, but we can only hypothesize don to zero. As time comes nearer to zero, (which i relate to less and less cogniscence, memory, and preception of), it becomes stretcehd gt the limit, because time does not allow consciousness to reach limits. This is where even if we die, we are not allow to reach. This is because, in practicality, there is no end? If there were beginnings, they woud necessarily reveal another forbidden fruit, that is the end it'self.

What this tell me has been said innumerable times before, in the zen representative absgractions of the Ying Yang, the Mandala, and for those Nietzcheans out there, The Ring. These figures are architypical of the lowest strata of consciousness, and i believe did not happen by mere chance.

This is why, the next coming cosmic jump, has to factor in, at least by the a priori methods of logic, that there are notions to which, even scientific analysis has to bow down to. They are universal principles, and if we as humans cannot begin to appreciate and to worship, there is a chance that Faust himself, will be re-condemned, ans the paradise from which we have been excluded, may never again become even a whisp of possibility. There is still time, as long as the virgues are sustained.


As Always, Oh be, Or b. There is no choice, (negation), nihilism is not an option.
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby nameta9 » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:15 pm

The year 0 is the year the big bang occured.

so 20 billion years ago, we are in the year 20,000,002,014.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:17 am

nameta9 wrote:The year 0 is the year the big bang occured.

so 20 billion years ago, we are in the year 20,000,002,014.

Thank you for your satire. And (happy new year!) 20 billon years after today we will be in the year 20,000,002,015. :)

The „year 0“ is a cultural one, an occidental one, and there is similarity to the „big bang“ because it is also a cultural one, an occidental one. The similarity of both means also that it is not possible to define what they really are. The main difference of both is that we know what was before the „year 0“ but do not know what was before the „big bang“. This main difference means mainly that the „year 0“ is probably no nonsense because it is surely useful while the „big bang“ is probably nonsense because it is surely useless.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: What do you think about the year „0“?

Postby Arminius » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:12 am

There are some analogies between the time reckoning of Christianity and the time reckoning of the big bang theory:

Both times start at zero.
The future of both times is infinite.
The birth of Jesus Christ and the big bang are "singularities".
Perhaps they come back.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis


Return to Science, Technology, and Math



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users