An Atheist Compares Religions

by **Warrior Monk** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:54 pm

http://www.pcpages.com/ani/pages/isl/moh-comp.htm

by **cuboidz** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:01 am

Interesting. Who needs proof of weapons of mass destruction when you know that the founder of the Islam was an evil villain

Seriously though, why is this guy so certain that the founders of those other religions were such angels ?

by **Warrior Monk** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:01 am

cuboidz wrote:Seriously though, why is this guy so certain that the founders of those other religions were such angels ?

My guess would be that it's because he's literate and well educated.
http://www.feistymama.com/bp/mohammed.htm

by **Rafajafar** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:15 am

Warrior Monk wrote:
cuboidz wrote:Seriously though, why is this guy so certain that the founders of those other religions were such angels ?

My guess would be that it's because he's literate and well educated.
http://www.feistymama.com/bp/mohammed.htm

Literate and well educated... you mean, like yourself?

*chuckles*

That link you provided sucks. Find a better one. It's biased beyond belief and bases the Prophet Mohammed's "evil" on what the Bible says. As we all know, the Bible is a weak basis for proving anything moral OR historically (although it does posses the best <b>outline</b> of B.C. knowledge in one place).

I have a problem with you utilizing that link as proof to your own favor as I'm sure you would with me using this link as a counter argument.

http://www.muhammad.net/bio/index.htm

Warrior Monk, you sir, are proving yourself to be a charlatan in a scholar's clothing.

by **Warrior Monk** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:15 am

Here is what the Bible teaches Christians and Jews:

"Thou shalt not murder." (Exodus, 20:13)

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew, 7:12)

Here is what the Koran teaches Muslims:

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

by **Rafajafar** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:21 am

Wow, very good! You quoted lines from SOMEONE ELSE'S TRAIN OF THOUGHT very well. It's almost as though..you're a living book.

The bad thing about books...they're written by other people. You sir, have no chance of writing anything, because your beliefs are based entirely on what others have told you to believe.

Again, the bible is not a reference for moral right. If you recall, the bible states that pork is unclean, that you shall eat fish on friday, and that a father has the right to send his youngest daughters away for prostitution. Does that mean you support these issues too? No? Then seriously, shut the hell up, bible humper.

The only thing you're good at is being offensive.

by **Matthew E.** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:18 am

Again, the bible is not a reference for moral right. If you recall, the bible states that pork is unclean, that you shall eat fish on friday, and that a father has the right to send his youngest daughters away for prostitution. Does that mean you support these issues too? No? Then seriously, shut the hell up, bible humper.

Yep.

by **Warrior Monk** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:31 am

Rafajafar wrote:Again, the bible is not a reference for moral right.

It's not?

The Ten Commandments are not a reference for moral right? :roll:

The Golden Rule (Matthew 7:12) is not a reference for moral right? :roll:

So why do you think it is moral to murder, steal, lie, and adulter? :roll:

Rafajafar wrote:If you recall, the bible states that pork is unclean, that you shall eat fish on friday, and that a father has the right to send his youngest daughters away for prostitution. Does that mean you support these issues too? No? Then seriously, shut the hell up, bible humper.

Jesus didn't say or do any of those things. I'd like you to post the passages of Jesus doing any of that.

by **Logo** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:03 am

Unfortunately for Jesus, more than half of the Bible was written before he was born.

by **Matthew E.** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:07 am

Jesus didn't say or do any of those things. I'd like you to post the passages of Jesus doing any of that.

So now we're comparing Jesus to the Koran, and not the Bible to the Koran? Keep the subjects in line.

Sadly, fanatical christians don't just read the parts of the bible written by Jesus (and what parts did he write again?). To that same extent, the maniacal muslims out there don't just read the peaceful parts of the Koran. And yes Monk, there are some peaceful, love-thy-neighbor passages in the Koran, too.

Secondly, the Golden Rule isn't exactly a sound moral philosophy. What if a masochist wants to be beaten horribly, so begins beating me horribly because he is doing unto others as he would have others do unto him? Is that moral? This is the same predicament that Kant's Categorical Imperative succumbs to. Even Jesus and Kant, you're two heroes Monk, can't devise an absolute moral law. Aren't Gods supposed to be able to do anything?

Don't get me wrong, I think the golden rule is a great way to lead your life, as long as you're sane.

by **Rafajafar** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:28 am

You rock Matthew!

Yup, that's exactly right.

None of those are "laws". They are still subject to human interpretation, and therefore, are NOT references for moral right.

You can state that murder is categorically evil, but I have a proof that states that it is not *grins*.

The bible is not universal law. Sorry.

by **Warrior Monk** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:33 am

Rafajafar wrote:You can state that murder is categorically evil, but I have a proof that states that it is not *grins*.

I hope you get murdered.

Rafanjafar wrote:The bible is not universal law. Sorry.

May you be damned to hell by Jesus Christ.

by **Rafajafar** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:35 am

Warrior Monk wrote:
Rafajafar wrote:You can state that murder is categorically evil, but I have a proof that states that it is not *grins*.

I hope you get murdered.

Trust me, kid. The feeling's mutual.

Warrior Monk wrote:
Rafanjafar wrote:The bible is not universal law. Sorry.

May you be damned to hell by Jesus Christ.

Jesus is damning people to hell now? I thought his whole purpose was to "save" people. *shrugs*

by **Matthew E.** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:42 am

Right back at ya Rafajafar. :wink:

Before I forget, I have really enjoyed your posts in the time/infinity thread.

I also enjoyed the comedy of your link, I just hope some poor suicidal chap doesn't come along and read it, even if it is Monk. :oops:

And Monk, with the assumption that you're a Christian, you sure aren't behaving like one. A Christian loves God. How do you love God? You love thy neighbor. If you loved your neighbor, you would hope the best him.

by **Warrior Monk** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:49 am

Matthew E. wrote:If you loved your neighbor, you would hope the best him.

I do love him, but he's trying to justify murder, immorality, and sin. May Jesus Christ damn him to hell.

by **Matt** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:40 pm

I also like the delusion assertation in the first link you provided:

"[interfering in politics by the church] was ended by the Enlightenment (over two hundred years ago) which broke the political power of the Catholic Church and enabled Western European civilization (including and in fact led by America) to leap out of the Dark Ages. "

Was it not the protestants in the 15th Century that did that? You know, before all the European powers colonised America? So how did a nation that didn't even exist lead this enlightenment?

So much for him being "literate and well educated." If such a massive misrepresentation of history is found there who else knows what he has misrepresented!

by **Slartibartfast** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:57 pm

Warrior Monk wrote:Here is what the Bible teaches Christians and Jews:

"Thou shalt not murder." (Exodus, 20:13)

that's so funny. if the bible teaches that, how do you explain the crusades? and you wishing people are murdered? i think what the bible meant to say is

"Thou shalt not murder, unless thou can find a passage in an old, immoral, evil book that can justify thou to do so. Now go kill some heathans! may they be murdered and damned to hell!!!"

by **Warrior Monk** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:54 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:if the bible teaches that, how do you explain the crusades?

It is impossible to murder a Saracen infidel terrorist. It is only possible to kill a Saracen infidel terrorist. There's a distinction. You can look it up in OED.

and you wishing people are murdered?

The only people I am hoping get killed are devils like Rafajafar who think murder is morally acceptible.

i think what the bible meant to say is "Thou shalt not murder, unless thou can find a passage in an old, immoral, evil book that can justify thou to do so. Now go kill some heathans! may they be murdered and damned to hell!!!"

Not a bad interpretation... :wink:

by **Slartibartfast** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:03 pm

he didn't say murder was morally acceptable. he said it was not morally unacceptable.

by **Rafajafar** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:28 am

I said the complete eradication of the human race, simultaneously, is the ultimate act of kindness. In other words, I claimed that there is "at least" one form of murder that is acceptable.

It's tongue and cheek, but I kinda cant think of a counter argument, either. Perhaps one of you could help out with that.

And WM, if you quote someone else again, (insert idle threat here).

by **Ray** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:51 pm

Murder is killing without moral justification. Is that a fair distinction?

If so, then the Koran only allows for killing, not murder. Remember, the Koran is a moral code as is the Bible. The morals laid out are different, but they are morals.

Besides, I don't have time to cite specific verses, but the Bible (OT, very frequently) has plenty of references to smiting the enemies of god.

God himself destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, the Egyptians, as well as the whole of the world (save Noah's family). The dead had no trial, no appeal, nothing. They were killed. It is only god's infalibility and omniscience that proved their guilt. In god's name, Jericho was destroyed and Caananites were driven from their lands and or killed.

If a man insults my mother, he is probably going to have to stand and defend himself and his insult. Now, imagine if someone insulted my god. I'm not religious myself, but I can empathize with the fury of the devout. All of the Koran verses cited above refer to the enemies of god and to the offense their existence and their lack of faith constitute.

I think it was George Carlin who said that the more devout one is, the more one sees "thou shalt not murder" as negotiable (maybe it was "debatable").

by **Warrior Monk** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:19 pm

Ray wrote:Murder is killing without moral justification. Is that a fair distinction?

Correct.

If so, then the Koran only allows for killing, not murder.

The hateful Koran says that not only is killing justified but it is required. The hateful Koran commands Muslims to kill all non-Muslims (Kophrim).

Remember, the Koran is a moral code as is the Bible.

If Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf can be considered a "moral code" then I guess I would concede this point.

The morals laid out are different, but they are morals.

They are immorals not morals. The immorals are Satanic.

by **Guest** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:10 pm

Ever read Mein Kamf Monk? I think you'd find Adolf a kindred spirit.

by **Logo** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:14 pm

Wazzup everyone...that was me again

by **Warrior Monk** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:18 pm

Anonymous wrote:Ever read Mein Kamf Monk? I think you'd find Adolf a kindred spirit.

Um no. I am a Zionist Gentile who supports the Jewish people. I am not a Muslim like Hitler.

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