Can or should there be a Christian(/Religious) Humanism?

I especially invite the religious members online to think with me on this. Should we spend our days trying to become men of worldly wisdom when maybe we should be more concerned with spending time with the saving of our souls? Is there a conflict here? Shouldn’t we only spend our time working and praying instead of debating minutia beyond the necessity of saving souls? I know of one famous thinker who seemed to have such a problem with this that he quit doing science several times in order to assuage his Jansonist beliefs. Now there have been saints who were scholars, but they were in the main theologians. Where does the difference lie between secular behavior and the life of a Christian(or religious) thinker?

Cordially,
my real name

Hello

my real name

I don’t believe it is a matter of one or the other but of balance and the quality of thought itself.

For example, what good would talking about cleaning a room do if you never clean it? It’s not that thought is bad but when it takes the place of what should be done, it loses its value.

Pondering is beneficial for human being while random associative thought most often used in argument is of little value since it replaces the sincerity of pondering.

I’ve read that one can only think as deeply as they feel which makes sense to me. When joined at depth the result is meaningful pondering in regards the ancient essential questions of life and its meaning.

So there is thinking and there is thinking but also the other aspects of the human organism that must be put into perspective to create balance in order to rise above thinking for the purpose of understanding.

the difference is in the soul and afterlife…

it only exists for one of them

-Imp

Hi MRN,

Since your last comment to me was clearly an expression of exasperation, I feel obligated to answer you here. I understand that you may believe that people like me “spend our days trying to become men of worldly wisdom” but it isn’t like that at all. I feel that we begin as people without faith, but a seed is sown at some stage in our lives and starts growing. We take various paths in that faith, and then our acquaintance with the scriptures develops so far, that we start asking what Jews read in them, what the literal meaning is, where translation has been tendentious and what the philologists have discovered.

We haven’t left the source of faith, but in fact we are delving all the more. One of the reasons for this is the fact that “saving souls” is a tedious task that requires people with commitment – which seems to be something lacking in people who do not belong to fundamentalist groups. People doubt, especially when fundamentalist or conservative faith has obvious weaknesses that become unyielding scandals when priests are either unable to keep up their celibacy and threatened with divorce from the church, or are found to be paedophiles. It is cause for concern when conservative Christian groups support military intervention against an “Antichrist” of their own definition.

For people like me it becomes a question about the source of faith and its development. Have we understood what was written? Have the traditions that we have developed been supportive of the original goal, or have they led us away from them? I have extensive experience as a preacher and you soon recognise how manipulative language is. Is that not worrying? Or is language; are the stories, legends and myths in fact the essence of faith? At what point can we give genuine spiritual counsel or comfort to those in turmoil? Are these not questions that someone making the assertions religious people make has to clear up?

But our delving isn’t only a question of externals. We need our forty days in the wilderness to face up to the fact that temptation is real. It is about power and manipulation, or about love and giving oneself into the message. We have to go deep into our souls to discover what the driving force in us really is. What motives compel us? What do we want out of this? What is the true revelation at the heart of religious zeal? The conflict isn’t between worldly and the spiritual, it is the conflict that each of us is trying to contain in themselves that makes religion divine or devilish.

The question that has become prevalent in my religious life has been the question of responsibility. Am I “saving souls” or am I misleading them? My religious experience isn’t communicable in a manner that satisfies sceptics, but where is this experience leading me and others? Are there other people who have a comparable sentience? Where have they been beneficial to people and where have they wreaked havoc?

Our biggest problem is the lack of continuity from Jesus to us. Church history is a horror story which no Christian can simply push aside pointing to his new shiny denomination. We are a part of that history the moment we pick up the thread and weave on. Neither can we pretend that Jesus approves of what we do and say knowing that the man of the Gospels was a conservative Jew who died two thousand years ago. It is a question of the authority of our calling and its relevance in the modern age. If we quit something like science to maintain our religious practises, we need to be fully aware of what we are doing. I am not saying that it is wrong, but it seems to be saying that I would have to be as assured about that faith as about scientific facts, to push away something that ahs been proven reliable.

I have chosen the path that many Mystics have chosen. It is a path of social commitment and religious study, moving towards trustworthy spiritual counselling, which I witness with my life. Our problem is that there are certain authorities in the churches that call us heretics.

Shalom
Bob

Actually, I think you are more like these i mentioned:
“Now there have been saints who were scholars, but they were in the main theologians.”

Perhaps it is the interest in religion of the religious that makes them turn their lives to theology, not that interest in other subjects is prohibitive. ? Yet maybe theologians realise that theology is the highest discoursive knowledge?

mrn

Thanks much, Nick A, for another great, enlightening post! :slight_smile: Now to put my house in order.

But how does one begin to feel more deeply?
More experience in life?
Reading serious books?
Loving intently?

mrn

Hello

You might want to check out Christian A-theism.

Paul Tillich was behind Christian A-thiesm.

Look into it.

EZ$

Just looked up Paul Tillich on Wikipedia for you, EZ. Apparently he said since God is beyond being you cannot say (or act, i suppose) that God exists. I think however that it is better to say that God is the ground of existence, so that natural law can still be grounded in Him. (Is that what a-theism wants to deny? I can’t find a site for it on the web.)

(Was this a deep thought?) ?

mrn

Hi MRN,

sorry for the dely, I was (and still am) buried by a lot of work.

I think that there are people who are theologians and are more interested in what they see to be “discoursive knowledge” - and consequently they see the task of “saving souls” to be somewhat archaic. I personally find the theological information that is being slowly uncovered very inspirational in comparison to the dogma that has been the result of apologetics.

I think it is this inspiration that is used to the benefit of other people that is the source of the spirituality of Jesus, recently shown by people like Waterlover to be contained in the quality of the language used. It is this inspiration that has to lead Christianity out of its dead end of restriction and militancy. It is the creativity and charity of the love of God that will find ways into the future, open perspectives for those who have no hope and help people find faith again.

Shalom
Bob