the difference between shi ites and sunnis

first of all, i sound disrespectful because i have Completely formed my own religion and i just dont know much about anything besides catholicism… that latter part is specifically why this may sound disrespectful. but if you feel disrespected, my disrespect:insightful apology ratio is the highest that ive ever seen. i really want to learn and respond to knowledge, and entertain at the same time.

anyway, as far as i understand, the first thing that separated these two cultures who hate eachother boils down to Ali, the son-in-law of muhommed.

this jerk said that the only people who are allowed to be the true rulers of islam must be “Direct Descendants” of muhommed.

first of all, shutup jerk, god doesnt pull that crap.

second of all, when i hear the term ‘directly descended’, i think of genetics. like, the actual semen of muhommed went into the formation of a person, and that is why he is considered a direct descendant. now i really dont know that much about this, for all i know, Ali could have been referring to his own child, who would of course, as the child of muhomeds daughter, been ‘directly descended’ as i interpret those words.

but Ali was the son-in-law. he just showed up, after muhomed had already planted and grown his seed. he just showed up and started having sex with it. that doesnt make him ‘directly descended’ according to my definition. i mean it just sounds kind of hilarious.

but, obviously there must be some kind of discrepancy. the foreign ideas of ‘direct descendancy’ obviously must also include those guys who just decided to show up.

so back to the first point, why the crap would anybody ever think that god wants ONLY the “direct descendants” of muhommed to rule over them? i mean, set aside the silliness that muhommed perpetrated and all the reasons why nobody should follow him, what is it about his children that make them better? is it the same thing that makes bishop blessed holy wafers more holy than non-blessed (aka, nothing tangible)? (obviously, im sorry i ask answerless questions to illustrate points in an entertaining way)

anyway, there must be some dogmatic differences. and as disrespectful as this post is, i really do respect the completely foregin rituals that muslims partake in. i know that they live in a different world and lots of things can appear and actually feel good when the entire environment changes. i seriously dont think that burkas and the strict prayer rituals are stupid, at all when compared to any other religion. im not joking anymore.

what is the dogmatic difference between shi ites and sunnis. why do they hate eachother so freaking much that sunnis are actually hell bent on messing up iraq? i mean, the way i see it, they arent even fighting against america anymore. they all know that america will be there. they are fighting against the shi ites who are now in power. right?

even if my ideas about iraq are wrong, why do these people hate eachother? they all look the same to me!

It is due to the lack of an analogue to Wal-Mart and Home Depot in their culture. When one becomes obsessed with name brand goods at low prices and finely detailed home furnishings one forgets to turn their anger against their neighbor regarding mythological decrees and narcissistic claims of superiority.

hi future man,
good question. i can’t respond right now because i need to catch some z’s (early day tomorrow), but i will be happy to answer it as soon as i get the chance…hopefully by tomorrow night.

yeah then they are only worried about their narcissistic claims of being superior to their neighbor because they have the new Ron Popeil Pocket fisherman showtime.

To counter the neighbor got a bigger shed, to counter that the other guy gets a bigger SUV that gets 2 MPG.

scythekain,

This results in less murder, but increased waste of natural resources. Also, Prozac consumption goes up, but almost everyone maintains their head.

adlerian, i truly cant remember laughing so hard at ilp. it might have happened, but i dont remember. and im a funny guy who is quite disenfranchised with what passes for humor here.

come on muslims im still listening. everyone is.

Hi Future Man,

Sorry I took a lot longer than expected to reply…
Anyway, as a Shia Muslim myself, maybe I will be able to provide a slightly different perspective.

At the heart of the issue which divides the Shia & Sunnis is the doctrine of Imamat, or caliphate after Mohammad. Of course, there are other differences between these two main branches of Islam, but these small differences are derived from the basic disagreement on the question of Mohammad’s succession.

At the crux of the matter is, as you mentioned, who had the prerogative to lead the Muslim community after Mohammad’s death. The view of the Shia is that Mohammad explicitly appointed Ali has his successor, in accordance with divine instruction.

You’re right that Ali was the son-in-law of Mohammad, but he was also his cousin, and was pretty much “adopted” & raised by Mohammad. Mohammad taught him everything he knew, and following the revelation of Islam, Mohammad shared with Ali all of his Qur’anic teachings as well as their interpretations, applications, etc. There are many narrations from Mohammad praising Ali, and even stating that he had great prophetic qualities, but without the quality of being a prophet. Mohammad spoke of his bond with Ali on many instances, and Ali eventually married Mohammad’s daughter, Fatima, who is honored by both shia & sunni Muslims. Shia Muslims, however, believe that (as all the prophets) Ali, Fatima, and the Imams following Ali were also infallible.

So Shia Muslims believe that Mohammad appointed Ali because, as an infallible with a deep understanding of Islam & the Qur’an, he was best equipped to lead the Muslims after Mohammad. They also believe that this decision was in accordance with divine decree, as was the decision that 12 particular descendants of Ali & Fatima lead the Muslims. It was not an issue of we’re-special-cuz-we’re-from-Mohammad/Ali. Just that, according to Shia Muslims, the 12 “imams” were all infallible & thus, as sinless people, they were best suited to lead fairly & un-hypocritically. Shia Muslims believe that Mohammad declared Ali as his successor on several occasions.

Furthermore, Shia Muslims believe that Mohammad would not have left the Muslim community, still sensitive and new, without a leader, or clear-cut instructions to the Muslims with regards to their leadership. Rather, Mohammad considered the future courts of Islam instead of just entrusting it to faith, especially after putting so much thought and care into it during his life. Sunni Muslims believe that the prophet left the caliphate to be chosen by the people. Shias see a flaw in this reasoning because Mohammad never left specific instructions as such, and because even this method was not consistent…while the first caliph was elected, the second one was appointed by the first, and the third was appointed by a six-man council chosen by the second. So the shia believe that none of this was necessary; rather, Mohammad considered the future course of Islam rather than entrusting it to fate.

Good question. I wish I knew. It’s really, really unfortunate. On a personal level, I haven’t seen much animosity between Shia & Sunni Muslims. My Muslim friends are about half & half, and we do not consider our differences to be significant. So when I see that some Muslims are killing others because of this, it makes me just sick. Especially when it comes to Iraq…it’s just tripping me out. You see, prior to the war I went to Iraq several times and there was almost no discernment between Shia & Sunni Muslims. There are several shrines in Iraq of Shia imams, and the sunnis would frequent those shrines just as much as the Shia. You never even heard people mention the words “shia” & “sunni.” My parents, who are Iraqi, are one of each, so my family is half shia & half sunni…and it’s something we barely ever realized, let alone mentioned or brought up. And it’s funny, because out of all my Muslim friends, it’s all my Iraqi friends that have parents who “intermarried” in this sense (for lack of better word).

So when I see this going on in Iraq, I’m just in shock. It’s the last place in which I would expect this kind of thing to happen…yet ever since the war began, all we heard was shia this & sunni that. Something’s just fishy to me…I don’t know. Since the beginning of this, I’ve been left with an uneasy feeling about this divide that has become so prominent there. It’s really bizarre. But then again, in a situation of turmoil, and when people are just discovering their independence, I can see why such conflicts might come up. It’s very unfortunate that they do, but that’s what an opportunity for power does.

Outside of Iraq, we’ve heard of incidents of violence between shia & sunni Muslims; for example, shia being killed by the Taliban, and Saddam (not religious in the least) killing shia Muslims. Clearly, neither Saddam nor the Taliban are examples of perfect sunni Muslims. I think some people just find it to be a good excuse to exercise violence. It’s sad that within a group that is already a minority (Muslims), these differences have to be exaggerated such that you’ve got people against their own people. You’re right that there’s no reason for it. But like I said, in general, shia & sunni Muslims are not against each other, nor do they “hate” one another. Of course, you’ve got exceptions on both sides, but in general, the majority of Shia & Sunni Muslims are appalled when they hear accounts of this violence & animosity

Great insights noetician. Thanks.