World Religions /The key for peace

Indeed , I suppose I do make a habit of expecting people to understand. Naturally I have nothing against Jews.

Or anyone else. Because I dont normally feel hate, I usually expect others will not. But as you say there will be some who would take what I said out of context.

All in all what I mean is only that it is a fact that the Jews killed Christ. I know hitler jumped on that idea and used it to his advantage.

But I certainly dont think that way. But your right, we need to be safe, safe for the sake of the gullible and impressionable.

Hello F(r)iends,

Dynamite was intended, I hear, to make mining more simple… it still does not take away from the fact that it is explosive… just like religion. Religion is simply a tool man uses: for good or bad.

You propose that everyone give up their philosophy based on the “observations” you have made. Do you think that millions (even billions) will give up their beliefs and/or philosophy because it is as easy as discarding their notion of reincarnation?

Suddenly there will be peace between religions… yup.

-Thirst

You miss the point thirst. I will explain later. Are you a christian, muslim?

Thirst4metal
This is a serious question, and not intended to be a patronizing one. What do you know of the worlds religions? So as I know how best to answer you.

Bob I dont really agree with this, people can be bad for bads sake. What are you saying?

Hi Iron Dog,
Those we term as being “bad” people, if you look at the situation as objectively as you can, know very little about the “badness” of their actions since they have lived a secluded life of always capitulating to the kind of wishes that make them do the things they do. They have always lived on their side of their actions, never crossing to see how it is for others.

If if they experience some kind of foreboding, they weigh the harm they might cause against the good they mean and presume that the good is greater, even if it is bad for others – if you see what I mean.

Shalom

The doctrine of rebirth is one of mankinds oldest. Look for yourselves and you will find that the egyptians believed in it, the sumerians, native american people,s , african tribes, celtic people,s , ancient Iran and the rest of the arabic world.

The hebrews also took rebirth as fact. First of all, I dont like jumping around from point to point , and I dont see any reason to explain this further until I know it is worthwhile.

If you are curious about rebirth, I need you first to concede that the people ,s I mention did in fact believe in rebirth. Otherwise all else I say will be a waste of time.

Lets start with the foundation up. So if you are reading this, and you are keen on the idea, would you first of all agree here with what Im saying?

We need to get this cleared up first before we can move on. And make no mistake, this is a wonderful thing, and you will be fascinated by what I have to tell you. You will be left thinking, “how on earth did I not think of this”.

So to summarize,

Im saying all early people,s believed in reincarnation before the nasty church of st peter, and the muslims near enough destroyed all trace of it as a science. Do you agree?

Ask away if you have any concerns about this, then we will take it further!

It is out of grave concern for a world being torn into bits by religious divisiveness that I am spreading the word about a new book that is a powerful guide to discovering God on one’s own. Written as a bridge between traditional organized religion and mystical spirituality, God Without Religion invites readers to examine their beliefs and explore the nature of the divine. Author Sankara Saranam (a former monk of the swami order and the son of self-exiled Iraqi Jews) welcomes the reader’s willingness to question, and offers seventeen universal techniques for developing a personal relationship with God. The book is an honestly written accounting stemming from Sankara’s deep faith in a higher power, if not necessarily in any one institution that claims to serve a higher power.

Called ‘a spiritual masterpiece’ that is ‘a direct path to God’ and a way out of ‘religious shackles and abuse,’ God Without Religion: Questioning Centuries of Accepted Truths was written especially for people who believe organized religion continues as the cause of humanity’s worst wars and most acute suffering, and who seek a more expansive relationship with God. I invite you to learn more at godwithoutreligion.com

Good link mc knight.

I am of the same mind. I am also saying that religion is dying. And that it is gods intention that it dies. That is why it is frustrating to see atheists and others attack religion and by doing so believe they attack the identity of god.

When behold, God is long gone from there and has been busy starting new things. He is away ahead of them. Religion is not god, but when will they finally understand this one wonders.

No . On The observations of the majority of the worlds great minds , past and present.

Entire world is British Empire, they are just too humble to admit it .

lomsha

[.quote]The bickering, violence, hate, ist between many sects withing each group. Remember how the Catholics and Protestants went at it. How about the Sunni and Shia. No, it is a battle for the bucks at the tithe.

No, not really ask a rabbi regarding Judaism and Jesus only discussed heaven through him and zip regarding reincarnation.

So when where you nailed to a cross to tell any individual what they should be preaching. You do not pay their bills.
[/quote]

They do not see it this way.

Do you have actual biblical proof of this? Show me a verse please :slight_smile:

Will do drummer.

well…? Does it take 2 days to find a verse that you are already certain of?

Drumme I,ve been busy.

Anyway hang on here just now and I,ll answer that.

Christ asked his disciples “who do you say I am " and the disciples answered " some say John others say Isaiah lord”.

Now for a start, christ would not be asking his disciples who he was unless he had lost his mind.

or He was asking a specific question.
What christ was asking was, who , according to what you know about rebirth {which the early hebrews knew about} do you say I am.

That is why the disciples answered "ye are John Ye are Isaiah etc. Because in their tradition it was expected that someone from the past may return into the present.

They thought he was the reincarnated Isaiah, you can see this for yourself.

Also when asked by his disciple “who sinned that this man be born blind lord his parents or he” we really get somewhere. Now think about it .

Why on earth would a disciple ask such an absurd question if the doctrine of rebirth was not accepted to early jews?

Why ask who sinned? Why ask , did his mother or father sin that he should be born blind. This is him implying as it says in the old scriptures, that sin may be passed down from generation to generation.

The disciple is already aware that the blind chaps parents may have been to blame for his blindness.

Now if the disciples believed that you only lived once, why ask has this man sinned that he deserved to be blind?

Without the connection to rebirth this makes a nonsense of what the disciples ask Jesus and a mockery of gods justice. That a man who has never lived before to commit any sins be born blind.

I will give you more than this if you would like.

It is evident that the Jewish priests believed in the theory of rebirth, or they would not have sent to ask John the Baptist, “Art thou Elijah?”, as it is recorded in the first chapter of St. John’s Gospel, 21st verse.

In the 14th verse of the 11th Chapter of St. Matthew’s Gospel we have the words of the Christ concerning John the Baptist which are unambiguous and unequivocal. He said, “this IS Elijah.” Upon a later occasion, at the time when they had been upon the Mount of Transfiguration, as recorded in the 17th Chapter of Matthew, the Christ said, "Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed…

Then the disciples understood that He spake unto them of John the Baptist." In the 13th verse of the 16th Chapter of Matthew we find the Christ asking His disciples, “Whom do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” And they said, “Some say that thou art John the Baptist; some Elias, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”

“And He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?” And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." We notice from these passages that Christ Jesus did not contradict His disciples and this is quite significant.

He was essentially a teacher, and if they had entertained a wrong idea concerning the idea of rebirth, it would have been His manifest duty to have corrected them. He did not indicate that there was any need for correction, however, and Peter’s reply conveys a knowledge of the deeper truths involved in the present mission of the Christ.

dosicrucia.com

The Old Testament promised that Elijah would come to the Jewish people. Some who believe in reincarnation think this is what occurred with John the Baptizer being the fulfillment of Elijah’s coming.

The Angel Gabriel announced to Zecharias that his son’s name would be called John in Luke 1:13. He goes on to say in verse 15 that he will be great in the sight of the Lord and “shall drink no wine or strong drink and will be filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb.” Verse 17 says of John, “he will also go before Him (The Lord) in the Spirit and power of Elijah,” which is a ministry of reconciliation, would have the “hearts of the fathers turned to the children and children turning to their fathers.”

To claim that Elijah is John the Baptist is to teach reincarnation. The premise is that a spirit in a former body comes back to be born in another body. At the very least, it is transmigration. The Bible has never taught this.

In Matthew 11:13, Jesus states: “For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.” (Jesus calls him “John” not “Elijah.” Elijah is included with ‘all the prophets’ who came before John. In verse 14, Jesus says “and if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.” John wore a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt and preached in the wilderness. This was the same attire that Elijah wore (2 Kings 1:8), bringing attention to the Jews of the similarity of John’s mission to that of Elijah’s. Prophecy has many patterns and sometime dual or more fulfillments.

Malachi had predicted that before the Messiah’s appearing, Elijah would come as a forerunner (Mal. 4:5-in relation to the day of the Lord). If the people had been willing to receive Jesus as the Messiah, then John would have filled the role of Elijah. Jesus then tells them to heed His words. If John fulfills Elijah’s coming then Jesus is the Messiah.

Jesus pointed to John the Baptist as a type of fulfillment of Elijah’s coming but he was not a reincarnation.

This is proven in John 1:20 when the Jews sent out the priests and Levites to investigate John’s ministry. They ask him if he is the Christ. He states emphatically “No!” They ask him again if he is Elijah, John answers “I am not.” This is not a temporary memory loss for John that Jesus has to correct later. In verse 25, John the Baptist is asked, ‘Why do you baptize if you are not the Christ nor Elijah nor the prophet?’ In verses 25-27 John points to the Messiah who is coming after him. He states that it is he who is the forerunner of Malachi 3:1. In Luke 1:76, we see that John’s father, Zecharias, is filled with the Holy spirit and says that his child will be called the prophet of the highest and will “go before the face of the Lord and prepare His ways again.’ This relates John’s ministry to Mal. 3:1, 4:5, and Luke 1:17. John labored in the same Spirit and power of the former prophet by calling people to repentance and he was preparing them for the salvation that Christ would later bring.

Both are Elijah and John the Baptist are forerunners. Elijah was promised to come for the second coming not the first, therefore he is not John the Baptist. Mal.3:1 promised an unnamed forerunner Mal.3:1: “Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.” Malachi speaks of two messengers one that will prepare the way for the Lord, this is none other than John the Baptizer who is foretold in Isa.40:3-4 as “The voice crying out in the wilderness: prepare the way of the Lord; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.”

In Mal 4:5-6 he is named “ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. We are told the prophet Elijah will come before the great and terrible day of the Lord (the tribulation). In Luke 4:18 when Jesus stood up in the temple and quoted Isa.61:1-2 he stopped at proclaiming the acceptable year of the lord and did not read of the day of vengeance of our God. This is reserved for the tribulation period in which Elijah will preach before the day of the Lord! Which makes it clear that John could not be Elijah for it was not the Day of Vengeance; it still is in the future. Again, if we go back to what the angel Gabriel said: he (John) would come “in the spirit and power” of Elijah (Luke 1:17), coming in this ministry does not make him literally Elijah the prophet.

One of the strongest testimonies that John is not Elijah is on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3; Luke 9:30; Mark 9:4-5). Elijah and Moses appear and Jesus talks to Elijah. The disciples recognize him as Elijah in his original form, not as John the Baptist. One must either concede that they are 2 different people or that John the Baptist turned back into Elijah. Again, this would promote reincarnation or transmigration of a spirit going from one body to another. The Bible does not teach either. If one insists on this view then they must deal with II kings 2 where in vs. 9 Elisha asks for a double portion of Elijah’s spirit upon himself. He is promised this will be so if he sees his mentor taken to heaven. In vs. 11-12 he does see this event and Elijah’s mantle falls on Elisha. In vs. 14 he struck the water and it divided just as it did before with Elijah. The Sons of the prophets see this and say, “The Spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha.” If Elijah’s spirit was upon Elisha then he was not taken to heaven! John had the same Spirit upon him that Elijah did. This did not change Elisha to be Elijah but gave him the same authority through the ministry of the Spirit. If one is going to use the Scripture that John the Baptizer literally came in the Spirit and power of Elijah then how did he rest on Elisha and become a double portion no less. Obviously verse 9 this means in like ministry, and function, to having authority. John came “in the spirit and power of Elijah,” the similarity being his fiery preaching and being in the wilderness (Luke 1:17; John 10:41). There are patterns that repeat themselves in the scriptures as a certain aspect is expressed in different people.

Let’s now sum up this unbiblical view. In II Kings 2:1, we find Elijah taken bodily into Heaven. For one to enter Heaven they must be transformed (1 Cor. 15:50-54), changed to an immortal body, a body which is no longer subject to death since corruptible flesh cannot enter into Heaven. If Elijah came back as John the Baptist, and was killed, this would be impossible according to Scripture. For one who has had a changed body to be equipped for Heaven, does not turn back to mortality. If we look at it more carefully in II Kings 2:11 Elijah never experienced physical death so for him to come back in another body means he reincarnated not only in Spirit but in body too, and the Bible never teaches either one of these. Elijah did not die, so the Scripture is not talking about his reincarnation as John the Baptist (2 Kings 2:1,11).The Bible teaches resurrection, a totally different concept.

It’s obvious that when Jesus spoke in Matt. 11:13-14, concerning John being “Elijah who is to come.” He was not speaking in a solid, literal sense. Jesus was metaphorically comparing 2 different things that also shared some similarities and functions. The Jewish scriptures always taught resurrection, not reincarnation. Each person is given 1 body to live in and will be reunited with that same body in the resurrection. When one takes the whole body of scripture instead of isolating verses, we find the consistent teaching that refutes any concept of Elijah becoming John the Baptist and then becoming Elijah again.