The creator?

Essentially I want to ask what some of you think of the sun from a religious/spiritual point of view. But also from an atheist point of view.
We owe everything to the sun. It was the first planet compulsory to the creation of life, and to preserve life.

Without the sun nothing would exist. Had the sun not continued to burn in the area it did after the big bang, the other rocks that had hurtled through space on fire would not have came into orbit.

They would not have cooled down, and they would not have become the earth as we know it, venus , saturn and so on.

For this the sun was compulsory, as was gravity. The rest, well let us leave that for the moment , lets not become embroiled in intellectualism. .

It was the sun that created life, it is the creator of us and all things.

After the big bang , and many years later the sun continued to shine, and so life became possible. The intervention of heat created steam and vapour, clouds came about, as did water, and creatures.

As man developed he discovered fire. And it was from this point that he transcended his animal self. A self that could only have been limited without the sun to give him fire.

Without fire & without the sun there would be no Farming or agriculture,arts, cooking, computers, nothing at all.

Fire is none other than the sun in a slightly different form. It is essentially the same matter.

Therefore in the form of a fire on earth that a man would build, the sun has taught us everything from the arts to morality.
I am proposing to you that the sun has everything to teach us. And that this is a vast science. Quite unlike anything the Incas , aztecs or alike taught. But similiar.

The fire has given us the ability to advance and evolve to our present state, and the sun asks for nothing in return. Yes my friends here is the absolute truth.

The sun has given you all things, your life , your love, arts and culture, without all of which there would have been no advancement in mentality , morality , nothing.

And yet while you can easily agree that we are an incredibly complex being, possibly the most intelligent thing on the planet, that without us , there is no observer etc etc . you may not agree that your creator has any faculties of thought?
No real mental faculties? It is a creator void of any intelligence?

Do we assume our creator is less smart than that which he has created?
To be sure , this is not a religious question as such. I am not proposing that the sun is god as in the traditional understanding of a supreme being.

This is reality, I am saying the sun created all things, and that if you were placing a wager like pascal, would,nt you say it is quite arrogant to assume that the sun which created all things and sustains them without asking for anything in return, is none other than a mere burning planet with no real faculties of thought?
This is life , this is reality. It was only man who added philosophy to life and the sun when he had begun to see it fuelled everything in his life. When he begun to see how important it was.

So do not let quack theories and styles of worship mislead you, these are not good, they are only the traditions man built up for himself according to what he saw as good at the time. But we are entering a new age of understanding.

Yes I know all about the fact that the sun harms us as well, the theories on how the sun will blow up one day. But let this alone for the moment.

The sun has created all things, it sustains our lives, and feeds us, waters us, gave us art and culture, morality. Do you think this is a daft sun?

Iron Dog,

While it is true that without the sun, life, or at least the forms of life we understand could not exist it does not follow that the sun is a creator. There are literally millions of ‘suns’ in the universe that could harbor the conditions that sustain the life possibilities we find in our solar system. Our sun isn’t unique even though it may be uniquely placed.

I could accept the statement that our sun is a sustainer, but calling it a creator is a leap that defies what we know of the universe.

JT

A New Age where we practice black magic and worship the Sun?  First of all, what the heck is so new about that? I grant that neither is in vogue in English speaking countries [i]right at the moment[/i], but that doesn't mean your ideas have anything to do with 'newness', much less 'understanding'.  Second, refering to mainstream religious ideas as 'quack theories' in the same breath as you advocate sun worship based on a bizarre twist of Pascal's Wager makes you sound very confused.

Yeh enjoy being asleep your whole life buddy.

[quote="Uccisore
A New Age where we practice black magic and worship the Sun? First of all, what the heck is so new about that?[/quote]

What the hell you talking about. Nobody mentioned anything about advocating black magic, and that sun worship is new. Really.

Statements in other threads don’t count?

Only because you worded it in a slightly new way. There's nothing new about sun worship. You're just offering a faux-rationalistic excuse for it, which is something pagans back in the day wouldn't have bothered with.

Uccisore,

Since you started the infamous thread in Mundane and I’ve been told to enjoy being asleep my whole life, perhaps we ought to just let this sleeping dog lie…

JT

I’ll take this rare opportunity to agree with you 100%.

I hate the sun… If I had to choose between solar worship or lunar worship, I’d be a night owl my whole life…

Hi, Iron Dog, not sure if i’ve written you before.

I think the Medievals had a comparison of the sun, the generator in the physical world, with God, the generator of all things. Note in your writing, the sun might facilitate spiritual goods, but only through physical ones; so there is little reason to take the sun as a spiritual god. (As for it improving morality, I suppose lots of bad things happen at night.) While the moon does light the night half the time and provides for stronger tidal motion, which improves the cause of life and evolution.

Watch out for those sunburns and moonburns, Iron Dog. The sun god of the Aztecs needed human sacrifices.
Better than both is to walk in God’s light.

mrn

ucciscore

You have a habit of misunderstanding me. And putting in place of what I really think some absurd way of thinking that you have come up with for me. No hard feelings but it would be best if you think im such an idiot to not read my letters, and not to reply or talk with me.

I get the impression you are not here to recieve info from me, rather to put me down.

This says a lot about you. There is nothing wrong with liking the moon. But be warned thinking negatively about the sun will harm you.

You mention the medieval period, tell me is this what period your reasoning skills are stuck in? It seems that way. You are way off course.

This is a good experiment for me actually, I get to see people struggle so much with a very simple idea. It is true to say that the simple things in life elude those searching for the truth.

Wow what a ride Iron Dog. Thank you.
Like an obstacle course, many hurdles.
But I warmed in the end. Maybe your contemplations took me to lying in the grass on a lazy Summer Sunday afternoon. And for that I was grateful.
I have gratitude.
This is proper.
Now. If the sun created all things. It did not create the rocks that came into orbit about it, did it. That’s just my observation.

But why not be grateful for the table upon which the food is laid out?
The space into which the Sun emerged triumphant! from the beginnings of your tale of creation. …for without the space for the sun and the “rocks” about it, how may we even have room to play out this debate…?
Space is quite important. Oh. And don’t hate the sun.
That makes the sun cry :smiley:

Yes this is true. What I mean to say is that we should see that the sun is our creator. Indeed the sun came about after space, so many other bits of burning rock hurtling through space.

But what really matters is that our sun does what it does. Trying to realize what came before the sun is difficult. It is what is in front of you that I am talking about. Scientists cannot understand the secrets of space because the universe is made up of mostly dark matter. And therefore cannot be studied.

But one thing we know for certain is what I have mentioned about the sun previously. How the sun itself came about, and its tale, is not all that relevant.

Not relevent, to…? Now that you mention it, I’d rather like a double CD compilation of the greatest hits in Burning Rock.

I see that… “the sun is our creator”, is a bit too much of a stretch for me. There are some necessary wrungs you’ve omitted I’m sure.

It has been an essential piece of apparatus in our coming about and walking this globe like happy children. But no more. ‘The Cradle of Life’ is a nice way of referring to the orbit our planet has about Sol. And shows us something of the reverence that scientists have for their mummies.

Dark Matter is something that (dark) scientists imagine to be existent. It is not observable, quite right. :slight_smile: …it is more what shows up current theory to be a bit of a botch job. Yet boundaries get pushed back everyday…!

It already does… it gets in my eyes and scorches my retina, it gives my driving arm an unpleasant sense of unwelcomed heat - which is followed by a slight tan, it keeps me from appreciating a good dose of scenic viewing, and that’s only the begining…! The moon on the other hand… IS MY FRIEND!

A few flaws:

If something created the sun with the purpose of creating us, then the sun would not be our actual creator, but the creator of our creator would be our actual creator. Ad naseum, until we find what was the first in the chain (if there is a first).

The sun did not create us. It merely allowed us to be created. If you took away earth, but left the sun then we would never have been created. As tentative said it is rather life sustaining than life creating. The sun is merely a peice of the puzzle.

Are you stoned? I cant understand the way you write, what you are trying to say.

Kolibri,

Now you’ve done it. You said flaws. You are now committed to be asleep for the rest of your life, just like me…

JT