Yeah, it took quite a few monkeys but it began with only one. Yes a lot of us have to transmute rage…and yes washing potatoes is an acquired skill, so is introspection, self reflection and transformation.
A
You judge that by your own standards. I say it is possible. You say it may not, because you may not put rage away.
I’ll wait until the entire world no longer feels rage. 
My $0.02… I personally subscribe to the rather nihilistic view that there is no good and evil besides that which we define ourselves, and also that we define good to be that which is pleasing to our conscience and evil to be that which isn’t. For example, helping others makes me feel good and stealing makes me feel bad; therefore, helping is “good” and stealing is “evil”.
The reason I take this view is that there seems to be no higher authority to refer to. If I believed in God, it would be much easier; I could just pass the buck to Him. But unfortunately I don’t, so I have to do some thinking for myself.
Take, as an example, the Categorical Imperative and the dilemma in which you are approached by a murderer enquiring after (say) Dave. The Categorical Imperative instructs you to tell the truth about Dave’s location, leading to his grizzly death. This situation is often cited to demonstrate the incorrectness of the Categorical Imperative, because it is more morally correct to lie to the murderer. But how do we know that assisting murderers isn’t right? Simply because we feel that it isn’t.
Similarly, if I believed wholeheartedly that murder was justifiable and “good”, you wouldn’t be able to prove me wrong. You may disagree with me, put forward your alternatives or even lock me away, but ultimately my opinion would be as good as yours.
It seems to me that moral philosophies are simply searching for a way of summing up our feelings of conscience in a few simple rules so we don’t actually have to think very hard about any particular situation.
I’ve gone off at a tangent…back to the original question. Morals are not universal; they are defined solely by the individual. But some morals such as murder may seem universal just because almost everyone defines them the same way.
Iron Dog,
How do I know I’m a moral person? I will not knowingly and deliberately bring hurt to another person. That said, am I perfectly moral in every instance? Sadly, no. Apart from our man-made moral directives, which is external pre-conceived morality, there is a spontaneous morality that I suspect springs from our ability to empathize with others. We do not, of our nature, wish to hurt others. We may learn or be taught to hurt, but that is another thread…
I believe that our innate nature is moral and if we remain constantly aware and in control of that awareness, morality in the best sense follows.
It is the lack of controlling our selves that gives rise to that which is immoral. A short time ago, in a state of uncontrolled frustration, I lashed out in a hurtful way saying things that should never have been thought, let alone said. It brought pain and hurt to the person it was directed at, and of course, to myself as well. Instead of remaining calm in ‘moral awareness’, I gave way to uncontrolled emotion, and committed an immoral act. And so, one more time 
, I was given the ‘lesson’ that morality is control.
JT
Well, who created Marijuana then ?
Sign of “last days”, among others, is that “God’s people” will be Prosecuted and imprisoned for following word of God.
Now,(don’t want to be felt as I am sarcastic, 'cause the truth I am saying ) does anyone have a proof that person was persecuted for believeing to be “Christian” ?
All I am saying is, persons that use THC are using something that is in
Nature, created, free for Everyone, just like apples.Why should someone
go to jail, and have a record as a Criminal, for hurting absolutely no one ?
I am Happiest man alive, because I am 100%, completely , absolutely ,
utterly Free Person, I am spirit that is truth, and flesh that is love.
Everything I do is 100% what I want to do, I am creator of my Life, and
I am my own Destiny, and all I have for you, is truth and love.
Does this sounds immoral ?
much time !
So its ok to live as we please?
(Aha! Finally figured out quote-naming!)
Depends what you mean by ok I suppose. If you think “ok” is pleasing other people then popular opinion is very important.
But your question could be rewritten as “is it morally acceptable to live amorally?”, which is an interesting problem. If you had no morals at all (didn’t care for the feelings of others, felt no guilt or pangs of conscience) then there is no reason not to live as you please - a worrying thought.
Thats why we must follow a high ideal.
A High Ideal in what Iron Dog? Your opinions in your Ethics thread lead me to believe you have no High Ideal as your argument suggested We should be able to do as we please regardless of anything.
That argument was to illustrate something. It was to illustrate that ethics justified alone by how the majority think are not solid ethics. For ethics to be solid they must be grounded in something solid also. This , solidness ,is the high ideal I mention now.
This quote is from an other thread, I don’t think the author is important.
amoral:
- Not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral.
2.Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong.
This is where all of us start after birth. Everything we know or have at that point is instinct, not moral.
Morality I think is a code of conduct, if you want to live with gorillas or bears, you have to know their morals. Taking criticism (nobody likes it) is the very fundamental element of morality.
JT
Welcome to the club. We all lose it but I wonder if it is more a matter of self control or admitting that we lose it and allowing something else more real to enter into our presence that aids our understanding and gradually takes the place of the cause of our conditioned reactions? I manifest these conditioned reactions so I speak from experience.
Self control is one thing until a person reaches “the last straw” and then they blow it. But if a person somehow comes to really understand more than head knowledge of what is meant in Buddhism by what is lost by fools fighting in a burning house, then maybe human consideration would replace the need for self control.
Of course it isn’t something we can do now, but it is an ideal and perhaps a practical result of impartial self knowledge.
Hi Nick,
The dilemma of the ‘last straw’ occurs the moment we lose awareness and simply allow ourselves to be ruled rather than ruling. As you’ve pointed out in other posts, we transcend our illusions infrequently and for short periods of time. Our intellectual understanding is wonderful, but it most often gets in the way of aware being, which I would call (in your terms) human consideration. Intellectual understanding is much easier than our practice, but perhaps that’s why we call it practice…
JT
[i][b]FAITH IN MIND
By Seng Ts’an,
Third Patriarch of Ch’an[/b][/i]
The Supreme Way is not difficult
If only you do not pick and choose.
Neither love nor hate,
And you will clearly understand.
Be off by a hair,
And you are as far apart as heaven from earth.
If you want it to appear,
Be neither for nor against.
For and against opposing each other –
This is the mind’s disease.
Without recognising the mysterious principle
It is useless to practice quietude.
The Way is perfect like great space,
Without lack, without excess.
Because of grasping and rejecting,
You cannot attain it.
Do not pursue conditioned existence;
Do not abide in acceptance of emptiness.
In oneness and equality,
Confusion vanishes of itself.
Stop activity and return to stillness,
And that stillness will be even more active.
Only stagnating in duality,
How can you recognise oneness?
If you fail to penetrate oneness,
Both places lose their function.
Banish existence and you fall into existence;
Follow emptiness and you turn your back on it.
excessive talking and thinking Turn you from harmony with the Way.
Cut off talking and thinking,
And there is nowhere you cannot penetrate.
Return to the root and attain the principle;
Pursue illumination and you lose it.
One moment of reversing the light
Is greater than the previous emptiness.
The previous emptiness is transformed;
It was all a product of deluded views.
No need to seek the real;
Just extinguish your views.
Doe-eyed see-no-evil deer 
[quote]
“So if we are so moral, so knowing of right and wrong, why are we the way we are?”
It could be argued that ‘why’ is a man-made word, generated in order to interupt us picking the fluff from our navels.
[quote]
“So just what is morality? Are mores universal? Is moral behavior something that can be defined? Who does the defining? What are the consequences of moral behavior? Of immoral behavior?”
Morality is spawned out of selfishness, isn’t it? Consider the tribe in the valley of lillies… You are there ~ participating in the life as an individual and come upon a stash of blueberries. You have free will enough to pig the lot. But if you save some for the other members of your tribe, Vitality will be spread throughout your numbers and not just your guilty pile of excretia. If you do pig them? You are actively encouraging the big thumb of Nothing to come down and smudge your tribe into the dust.
…we have made it this far. It is in our genes. And it is up to us to define it (“mores”, whatever…) clearly for when our nephews come back from their perambulations we might sing Old McDonald with them on the kitchen floor in good conscience.
But given that we’re not a tribe any more, we’re a (patch-work) ‘civilisation’, it doesn’t really matter who pigs the blueberries cos there’s pizza in the freezer. We have leeway when one really thinks about it. We can do what we want. No?
According to your mind so it shall be.
Big~hup the mind! 
There is now pizza in the freezer exactly because we are now moving onto new levels of awareness.
To develop ourselves we need more time than before. Therefore it is good that man has gadgets to help make his life easier.
Now he will have plenty of time to think, and therefore realize his identity , what he is supposed to be doing here, and , with the extra time he now has, go about developing his mind to embrace this new way of life that he will learn .
Had he been stuck in the dark ages, or even the victorian period, his life would have been harder, the great leap now required of mankind would not be made because he would be too busy trying to survive.
When life is tough, we are more concerned about surviving than philosophy. The easier life gets the more time we will have to reflect on what we are doing here. And this will lead to some remarkable discoveries and things being put into place in societies around the world.
Of course, having more time on their hands is detrimental to some people. They will only sit and conjure up fantastic ideas and hypothesis aimed at ultimately bringing humanity down in one way or another.
But that must change.