When considering the scenarios that try to explain the creation, there are two choices: The creation is due to an intelligent designer, a Creator; or that matter itself is the eternal. Although neither scenario can be proven, only one of these two seemingly impossible scenarios is possible. Even though the Biblical account of the creation is but primitive mumbo-jumbo, it is equally naive to think that lifeless matter created its self.
I do not argue that one has to believe that God is, but that its illogical to believe that God is not. A belief in God does not require the rejection of evolution as a means to explain what has occurred after the so-called “Big Bang”. To claim evolution was not the engine driving creation after the “Big Bang” is as thoughtless as claiming that creation is simply the results of random actions of inanimate matter. For if the creation had been solely dependent upon inanimate matter, there would be no universe but a void, 0 = 0.
Proof of God
We, the created, are the proof of God. Logic demands that the source of creation had to be a living, intelligent, eternal. No substance of matter, whether it is hydrogen or helium, seen or unseen, can meet the absolute demand of being a living, intelligent, eternal. No matter how infinitesimal a particle of matter may be, it is nonetheless lifeless. What is lifeless has no will and thus it could not have created its own self in a void. In order for lifeless matter to have materialized in the void, it had to be subject to the will of a living source. Without the will of a living a source to create lifeless matter, there would be no universe, but a void, 0 = 0
The evidence that the source of creation is intelligent is seen in the design of the creation; in the laws and reason that govern the universe. Had law and reason not proceeded inanimate matter, the universe would not be comprehensible, but incomprehensible chaos.
Knowing that the inanimate could not have created themselves and that the universe is governed by laws and reason testifies that another dimension exists; one that is superior to the created and is best described as a Spiritual realm, whose intelligent designer is God.
ah, argument for the existence of God section C. The Cosmological argument.
"c. Cosmological argument. That all things require a cause, including the universe.
True enough that the universe is quite definitely finite (at least in its current form) and an eternal creator would be a good ‘1st cause’ for the universe. However, it is not true that all things require a cause (even if it were a ‘universal law’, there’s no reason why it should apply before the universe started). Indeed, if time began at the big bang as people think it did then a cause for the universe would be a self-contradictory idea. "
0=0 is a universal idea. Theres no reason to assume it applied when the big bang came about however.
If time and space began at the big bang, then there can be no such thing as causes and effects as such things only make sense on a timeline, and so a cause of the universe would be an incoherent idea.
Oreso: I’m not saying all things require a cause, but for matter to exist, it required a cause. Thus it is self-evident that something apart from matter does exist.
Welcome to ILP. It is entirely possible that everything has a cause and also an effect or effects. That we are not aware of all cause doesn’t mean that there isn’t cause. Further, there are those who would suggest that cause and effect are one and the same, a hologramic interaction where neither may exist without the other. Ultimately, it is beyond ‘knowable’ and the question reside’s in speculation.
Meditate, if you will, on the complete omission of the concept of zero in every way. It would have to be “other than zero,” or if you will, “other than void.” The complete and absolute omission of zero, or void, can be expressed as 0X0, or, the complete void is present in no quantity, ergo, stuff. In the beginning (0), 0=0. But God’s equation: 0X0. The omission of nothingness, yields somethingness. An equation that only requires zeroes begat the universe, which is convenient when zeroes are all you have to work with.
s_w, That is a question for which there is no ‘proof’ one way or the other. A question without a definitive answer. You may build any construct you like to answer that question any way you like. Much of philosophy does just that, but all ‘proof’s’ lie within the construct and may or may not reflect the reality of the universe.
tentative, you distinguish between an observation independant universe and our experience, and I dont do that.
If something is unknowable, then it does not exist, and thats the only way we can sensibly talk about it.
In anycase, cause and effect require a timeline to be rationally coherent. So since the big bang lacked a timeline before it, there can be no cause for it.
Wayne,
Eh? You’re gonna have to justify this. I see no reason to believe that matter required a cause (never mind a self evident one), and a damn good reason for why it didnt (causes require time, and there was none before the universe).
Its not my specialty, but I’ll give a gut response.
Effects must proceed from causes (this can be squiffed by different points of view due to relativistic effects, but at the origin of the universe there can be no other POV except of the universe itself as there can be nothing else around! ).
Without time and space to seperate them, cause and effect would be indivisible and could only be treated as the same event.
It would appear in fact, as if the event had caused itself.
I should add to this that the people who have changed this world for the better, the outstanding figures, Martin luther king, Gandhi, Christ, Buddha, William Wallace, Bob marley, Bruce lee, John Coltrane , Quincy Jones and so many more all believed in the same ideal. So the proof is there.
Ask yourself why is it that some people are greater than others. You will see it is a persons beliefs that make them great and go on to inspire great things in the world. It all starts with a thought. But ask yourself where does a thought come from. This is worth investigation!
But for now see that at least it is what a person believes that decides how great they will be.
Well this is the heart of the matter. Cause and effect is in fact the very same event. The thing that makes them appear different is time and space but time and space don’t actually exist in the absolute sense so therefore neither does cause and effect.
This moment now, is the culmination of your entire journey. Eveything you have done up until now exists now and will exist tomorrow. It just holds a different appearance because of your different experiences. Whatever you did to acquire this computer still exists, only now you have the computer to prove it.
