Jerry,
Zugzwang is an interesting way to describe it. Maybe “searching†is a bit off, though. I am beginning to think that the move finds you.
If you have been in apparent Zugswang situations (if my hypothesis is correct we all ever are) you would attest to the sense of “searching”, but your conclusion I hope was evoked by my reference to the Tao at that point.
Dunamis
Jerry wrote:
I don’t know if zugzwang is the right analogy though I agree that one becomes “found”. When you are in zugzwang you must move but any move you make worsens your position. In life though The feeling I’ve had is that taken as a whole it is all equally meaningless. It’s not that anything I do makes matters worse but instead whatever I do, as I am, is tainted in a way making it personally meaningless. My theory is that if the need for meaning becomes truly intense, this need for meaning finally by passes the natural tendency to find the “right” thing to do and a sincere question arises from the depth of ones being that is unrelated to our personality. In a sense it is “hitting bottom.” This call for help can be answered since by hitting bottom it is uncovered. This really has nothing to do with the Tao as what lies beyond every-thing. Help comes from consciousness in-between the Tao and ourselves. For me it is the awesome depth and enormity of what the Cross represents.
Nick,
I don’t know if zugzwang is the right analogy though I agree that one becomes “found”. When you are in zugzwang you must move but any move you make worsens your position.
You are missing one word in the analogy. Apparent Zugzwang, the appearance that you must move, but that any move worsens your position. Losing a tempo may be considered the art of the Spirit.
Dunamis
What a pleasant conversation. I think that, as so often, the various players of the game of ILP are all right from their own perspectives. I think the game of life is rougher depending on where you are born and the conditions under which you live. Poor people or those living under oppression continually face “Zugzwang†and don’t have the opportunity to look down on the game from above. People like ourselves are privileged to stand back and perhaps understand that the forced move was only due to an apparent coercion, and that not to act would have been wiser.
The Sage combines both, poverty and wisdom, and is able to understand when a Zugzwang only seems to be one. This is only possible, if the Sage has an inner distance to occurrences, whereas we often have an “external†distance. We experience the lack of inner distance every day, multitudes of people put themselves and others in Zugzwang, are emotionally participant in all they do, or are incapable of observing a situation with a certain degree of objectivity. In this, they make those who perhaps only occasionally manage to remain calm and collected seem to be like the Sage, although they are only the shadow of one.
Thus, whilst it is important for us to not overemphasise feeling ‘more enlightened’ (since we are all only ‘tin men’), there is the objective experience of having managed better than others and the intuition that those others may need help in this area in the future. Of course the future remains a source of tension, and we all look forward with a certain degree of excitement, but at the same time, our expectations shouldn’t go so far as to be a possible source of disappointment or even bitterness. That is a burden that no Sage would carry around with him.
In the end, I agree with Angel, that we need to look after becoming realigned, whether with the Tao, the Spirit, or whatever Metaphor you choose to name. We all need a spiritual basis for our lives, for our piety and our future so that we can break aware from the frenzy our society offers people who have no other apparent choice.
Shalom
Several times in the past I’ve used the ‘blind men and the elephant’ metaphor when talking about philosophy or spirituality. I still think it is an apt metaphor. At the same time, it is comforting to know that at least some of us agree that what is in front of us is indeed, an elephant. 
JT
Dunamis
But how to genuinely lose a tempo? Does it mean doing this as opposed to that or in first objectively “seeing”, experiencing the whole of the position for what it is?
I’m not down playing the secular emphasis on doing this as opposed to that. It would be impossible for a society at all free to function without some sense of morality I also know however, that because we are as we are, all these momentary changes motivated by a partial experience of the apparent zugzwang move in cycles and history repeats itself. This is why I present the other side which provokes the growls it does.
I’m perfectly willing to admit that Simone was far more intelligent than me, had discovered her heart, and had more inner balls then I do allowing her to experience hell rather than sugar coat it with imagination. I know as of now I cannot prefer real hell. I always want to escape. Yet it is good for me to know of such people because just this knowledge helps my head, heart and inner balls. They prove that it is possible to become open to real conscious impartial experience no matter the hell it reveals and the protests from the many heads of the “great beast”.
I remember when I first read the Gita and Arjuna’s lament over being put into this position of having to kill his family. Then Lord Krishna said this is how it must be. At this point I expected Oprah herself to appear out of the blue and give him hell for being so non-feeling. But it finally dawned on me that the real question wasn’t in the doing of this or that but our dependence on attachments that create these situations to begin with and must be seen for what they are. Before truly seeing as Simone Weil was able to do, nothing can change. That is why from the esoteric perspective seeing must occur before change and this “seeing” is the real change rather than loss of tempo from doing this instead of that…
But again, only a very few can be capable. What is ironic for me is that so much of the survival of humanity I believe will depend on their authentic impartial efforts.
Hi JT,
There is no doubt about it - it is an elephant!
But what colour is it? 
Shalom
Hi Bob,
It’s green, Bob. It so obvious. It’s green. 
JT
It’s elephant colour.
A
Nick,
But how to genuinely lose a tempo?
By realizing that having one too many tempo was only an apparent state. Or, put another way, receiving the Dragon of Yin, the gu-shen.
Dunamis
Dunamis
But before being able to have the open and pure receptivity of yin, a person living a normal life interacting within society must be able to sustain consciousness and will or else all that results is escapism from hiding from reality rather than openly and impartially experiencing it. This requires yang or the ability “to do” or “carry ones cross.” At that point one is free to genuinely become open to receive without substituting for it with escapism. You can’t drop the tempo without first mastering the position
Nick (Darth) A,
But before being able to have the open and pure receptivity of yin, a person living a normal life interacting within society must be able to sustain consciousness and will or else all that results is escapism from hiding from reality rather than openly and impartially experiencing it. This requires yang or the ability “to do” or “carry ones cross.”
There are many paths. There is not one Sith science. The yin is everywhere, in every disintegration, every lower thing. The cross is one path, but I suspect that much as rain falls to the valley bottom diversely, I imagine knowing the yin is just as diverse. Escapism certainly is danger in the West when it comes in contact with the East. But escapism also collapses under its own weight, to the valley floor.
Dunamis
At first, one sees a path. In time one sees that there is no path, Given enough time, one forgets all of this.
JT
Dunamis
Darth had his saving graces. What is not generally known is that Princess Leah had a thing for men in command wearing uniforms. One thing led to another and the Princess learned a few things about older men. This offered at least partial compensation for having to walk around wearing that mask. Of course that wasn’t included in the movie.
The complimentary nature of yin and yang amongst men and women is a beautiful conception. It is a shame that all this political correctness makes it impossible to appreciate the essential differences. I agree that yin is everywhere within all things existing as lawful fractions of a higher whole.
There are many paths because people are of different types. As the paths initiating with a conscious source ascend and expand towards their common source of truth, they become more alike IMO. This is why the paths of knowledge and those of love are complimentary. One clarifies the other helping it to remain free of self deception. But mostly I read one rejecting the other through escapism.
JT wrote
Then one goes to the fridge, grabs a cool brew, settles in front of the tube, and contemplates some cute behinds.
A really pathetic attempt, but by all means, claim all the superiority you can handle. We see it for what it is… You and Simone have a nice day.
What does this have to do with superiority? Is it really an expression of any genius to be aware of an ancient observation expressed numerous times in so many ways? For example:
You say we forget and if is truly forgotten than everything returns to as it is.
Shades of the Spanish Inquisition. I’m glad you and the merry townsfolk know a witch when you see one.
Sheesh, if this is representative of the peace and love contingent, I shudder to think what will happen when the war and hate contingent arrives?
What! They are the same?? You mean it all depends on which way the wind is blowing. Ridiculous. 
Nick,
Sheesh, if this is representative of the peace and love contingent, I shudder to think what will happen when the war and hate contingent arrives?
What happens is Darth A appears on the scene, and the Spiritual Deathstar is built to crush the Alliance.
Dunamis
saving graces? that’s just gross…
luke and leia were twin brother and sister…
-Imp
Magneto commenting on Darth. Thats just a case of helmet envy.
Dunamis
Dunamis
Of course “alliance” is a loose translation from the original skroolininto. More specifically it was the :“Alliance of Experts” That truly got to him
Darth_A having spent many memorable moments on the planet Wonderenderifonious took several cases of the divine nectar produced there aboard his vessel which is even better than our finest scotch and had each case labeled: “For emergency use only.” This appeared to be such a time.
After pouring himself what can only be described as a “tall one,” he went into a deep meditation in order to consult the akashic records for any information on how to handle this sensitive problem.
Having traced them back to early twentieth century earth, he came upon the hidden writings of Jeremy H. Crompton who at a time of extreme frustration uttered in front of family friends and church officials the famous expression that till this day people try to conceal but non the less escapes into the ether and continues to flavor the akashic records at appropriate intervals.
Darth_A having coming upon this truly despicable utterance was forced to concede to its attractiveness though his temperament could not allow him to actualize it in respect to this grand alliance. Instead this saying now rests inside a circle in the center of a dart board in the game room of his majestic spacecraft. The saying reads: