Jay Halley wrote a book called the Power Tactics of Jesus Christ that was a pretty good read. It basically talked about him in terms of being a person that knew how to control crowds and manipulate people.
Personally, I think that Jesus was either a fictional character created by subversive Jews or the result of the human “program†so to speak.
The first idea is that a bunch of Greek Jews invented the idea of Jesus for I suppose the purpose of inventing a cult. If I recall correctly, most of the writings about Jesus were done about 500 years after his supposed death, and they were in Greek. So, if I decided to write a story about Voltaire I could take lots of liberties and make him look really great. It would be hard to prove that what I say is not true.
The human program is a little more complex in explanation. Firstly, I don’t believe in free will. I think that humans are programmed via their environment, interactions, language, appearance, and other details to act a certain way. Some people are like Icons and will get railroaded into stereotypical roles. A beautiful girl with a great figure, on average, is going to end up a certain way. A handsome athletic guy is going to get certain input that influences his development. That’s just to keep it simple.
I imagine that certain times create a certain amount and type of stimuli and or need that “floats†around in human consciousness. Some people like Jesus or Buddha are like a lens that focuses all of this information and comes up with an answer for it. Hitler could also fit into this category. He was the result of years of tribal and religious conflict. Jesus, Buddha, and Hitler (although we didn’t like the results that he came up with) all became a channeling point for the problems of their time.
I think that this process works a little like a computer network. Little bits of information get send from all the different people and events (PCs) to a central database (the special man) and then he processes the information and creates a summation of the entire problem.
If there is any truth to this idea, then it makes me wonder if this is part of some human behavior that is like the response that an animal might have to an infrequently given call.
The most important is, among the dead sea scrolls, some fragments of Mark’s gospel and a letter from Paul, which dates them before 68, i.e. approximately 40 years after Jesus death. They were in greek. Actually, everything indicates that this letter goes back to 56.
Work of Carmignac, Tresmontant, Robinson demonstrates that the first version was probably written in hebrew. If you add the time of redaction + translation (much shorter anyway) it seems very likely that these documents have been written at maximum 20 years after JC’s death.
I’ve heard about some of those documents but understand that they are very vague and really ripped up. Do you have any links that prove anything different?
I don’t know references for the original paper about dead sea scroll. But what they have, according to what I’ve red, are two fragments that matches only with new testament. Halas, my references are in france, and me in Canada… I’ll try to see if I can find something about that anyway…
There is much more evidence than for Plato or Aristotle, historically. Plus, you can add mysticism, if you’re really interested in the question. But the fact is that there is no proof for the one who does not want to see them.
Plato and Aristotle left writing behind. There is nothing authored by ‘jesus’
But the main point here is, nobody is self riteously preaching at me and everyone about how we better get on board with plato and aristotle or we are eternaly doomed. People are not trying to impede science and progress in the names of either aristotle nor plato, nor are laws passed or denied on the basis of peoples belief in them.
Wasnt moses just as good as jesus? They both were religious and smart. Although their miracles differed. Why isnt moses gods son, or reincarnation?
There were many other examples of people similiar to jesus in history.
Wasn’t Rome forced to embrace Christianity soon after it spread throughout the empire under the noses of the weakining authorities?
Perhaps it was through a coordinated impactful death that Jesus instigated the relief effort that would save humanity from the self-destructive forces of overpowering governments.
In other words, maybe Jesus saw evil for what it was and simply did everything he could do to make sure other people saw it too.
It seems like everytime a society or culture comes into what they at least portray as world dominance their power is taken away by a “saviour” or mediator from the poor. A natural balancing act so to speak.
If this is what Jesus was then I think he takes the trophy home when compared to others in history.
Another question: Was science created out of Christian nations? Not perhaps basic science, but things like microscopes, planetary science, and Newtonian physics. Maybe Jesus was aware that the “rock” of “His Church” would be set in a corner stable enough to support a more discreet sense of the truths of nature…modern science.
Absolutely not. During the crusades, the ‘heathens’(middle eastern)being slaughtered in jesus name were far ahead of the christian nations in technology. Not to mention the chinese, who knew of astronomy and basic physics and even gunpowder while european nations were still swinging swords at eachother.
On the flipside, the technology ‘christianized’ nations do possess is less becuase dogmatic christian leaders do what they can to supress anything goes against their religion, or threatens it. IE stem cell research.
Any scriptual references to support this point? The only thing that springs to mind for me is the question of paying money to Caesar, but even this isn’t a great example.
No, to me either he existed and was divine according to the bible, or he didn’t exist and a very clever bunch of people got together to have a bit of fun. And, if we are honest with ourselves, the former is much more likely than the latter.
your teacher was educated wrong so he or she educates you wrong.
2.you went to church and was convinced by a book of lies and a room full of brainwashed people.
3.your parents pray to god because they are educated stupid and born evil onlt timecube saves human existence.
4.i am not easy to be convinced that a bunch of queers and lesbians
are fearing there true human nature (being a gay person) that is righteous
not usual anymore but righteous.
5.the only virtue that is real is thou shalt not kill even though past civilizations
grew insane from fake education and started eating eachother to death
or cannaballism.
6.dont drink the blood of christ they take the blood from a drunk person at the hospital.
[i]And the award for best false dichtomy of the week goes to -
Quote:
No, to me either he existed and was divine according to the bible, or he didn’t exist and a very clever bunch of people got together to have a bit of fun. And, if we are honest with ourselves, the former is much more likely than the latter.
Congratulations![/i]
That’s just plain funny…I don’t care who you are.
Absolutely not. During the crusades, the ‘heathens’(middle eastern)being slaughtered in jesus name were far ahead of the christian nations in technology. Not to mention the chinese, who knew of astronomy and basic physics and even gunpowder while european nations were still swinging swords at eachother.
On the flipside, the technology ‘christianized’ nations do possess is less becuase dogmatic christian leaders do what they can to supress anything goes against their religion, or threatens it. IE stem cell research.
[b]Perhaps then Christianity at its roots served as a tool to STOP science?
Here’s a free thinker’s thought: Maybe Jesus was a gay lush who felt like most men in Roman society were all too butch and overbearing so he got some gay buddies together and figured out the best way to turn proud men into pussies! Ha! I’m funny. blppppp.[/b]
As Jung pointed out, what matters more than whether or not Jesus was what he said is that millions and millions of people across the last 2000 years think he is.
Are you kidding ? Because you find something signed by Argrata, you think Argrata existed ? That’s the best you can do ? Plus, if you want someone of that kind who didn’t write anything, take Socrate…
That’s exactly what I think : the only reason there is pretty much nobody to exclude those guies, is because they don’t bother anybody. But our egoistic tendancies are dangerously threaten by a guy called Jesus who said, with authority, the best thing you can do is to die for other. And did it. That, is quite dangerous for our little narrow view of life… That, must be taken away from our path, in order to sleep well with our little ego.
I don’t buy the notion that Jesus was some kind of “anti-Roman rebel”, a “Marxist before Karl Marx” or any such modern attempts to re-cast Jesus in a way that bears practically no resemblence to the figure we read about in the New Testament, or even the apocryhal/pseudonymous books of the early Christians.
This is not because I have a personal investment in the New Testament, but rather because I don’t see what option we have (if we are going to be speaking of “Jesus of Nazareth”) other than to accept or not accept what such works have to say - as opposed to pulling things out of thin air, which is (when all is said and done) what most modern pseudo-scholars and controversialists tend to do when they say they want to speak of the “historical Jesus.”
While I see the utility of “critical approaches” to the New Testament (and I mean of the genuine kind, not the sensationalist nonsense from groups like the “Jesus seminar”), I have to say that I think even these are often polluted by the political/social tides.
For example, I see no reason to doubt that it was fundamentally the Jewish religious authorities and not the Romans who were responsible for the arrest and execution of Jesus. Besides the fact that Jewish religious tomes like the Talmud essentially “take the blame” for Jesus’ execution (but make it clear that they regarded him as a false prophet/heretic, and thus deserving of such a fate), I don’t think it’s at all surprising that the religious authorities in Jerusalem acted as they did - for the behaviour was not peculiarly “Jewish” in this regard, as it was (unfortunately) quite predictable of human beings. History is filled with dissenters and “heretics” who put a scare into the minders of political/religious orthodoxy in their day and age; not because they were raising armies or plotting violent revolution, but simply because said authorities had big problems with what these thoughtful imps were saying. Socrates immediately comes to mind.
Unfortunately, over-sensitivity toward the whole subject of “anti-semitism” is what is really behind attempts to shift the blame. On the other hand, the basic scenario put forward in the New Testament (a Roman procurator ruling an unruly people very much prone to violent uprisings, who up to that point was having little luck in his dealings with them, being coerced into going along with the Judaic priestcraft in their designs against Jesus via the threat that it would be unflattering if Caesar heard that one of his vicegerants was letting a man claiming to be a “king” wander about unmolested on Roman soil) is not very hard to believe. Indeed, the more one understands about the problems in Judea at the time of Jesus and into the beginning of the second century (ex. the rise of Bar Kochba, etc.), the more it becomes hard to swallow that Pontius Pilate would be more threatened by a man who was in many respects a Judaic-Stoic than by a people whose religion (and fanatics, like “the zealots”) would have seemend awfully backward and “Taliban-like”.
IF jesus or 666 was alive he was a tool
of his time not some kinda awsome rock
star back in the day (i take offense to calling jesus an elvis)
count how many times did people come to
him only to use him for his unearthly powers
plus as the SON of god the dude is equally
matched against the anti-christ or HIMSELF
christians and satanists pray to the same thing they hate
god offers
satan offers
christ died
anti-christ will rise
and god will rise again
hello notice the chance of decieiving himself
and being angry at himself for no reason
it adds up satan is of god’s sins supposely
god was in a race like humans but not humans
and they sent him down to a pit where he rose and
was forced to our space & time so he brought his anger
from them sending him away as a sacrifice to keep their
race alive and TIME OVERLAPSE christ on the cross as a
sacrifice for his own sins replaced with the words “our sins”
see its adding up and when he annihaltes his anger or satan
and his lies or anti-christ then he will be able to go back to
the place from which he came leaving humanity to ponder in pain and enlightenment wich he will bring with him from OUR UNIVERSE
so time lapse again and the race he is from will be offered as he kills
them for sending him away from THEIR UNIVERSE so it adds up
with a lil story PAST REVALATIONS AND BEFORE GENESIS
yes i have wrote it and it lies here at the home of the time mage matt
:d