Other than political expediency for Jewish authority and over-arching Roman rule, why did Jesus of Nazareth have to die? Granted that he wasn’t particularly well thought of by the authority groups in Judea, but other than unsupported speculation of divinity and planted on ‘died for our sins’ (as a requirement or fulfillment) why didn’t he live to a ripe old age?
JT
Because he was killed young.
Sorry,
Marc
People get tortured to make them look like weak assholes before the giant machine of the state. It’s to show what happens to the guy that shoats “I’m the one,” to the crowd. When he and they see “the one” cover with his own filth everyone will go “hmmmm” and head home.
Unless the Jesus story is a complete fiction, it is one of the few times when everyone didn’t head home. Even if it is a fiction the story sparked many imitators and that is unique as well.
how can jesus die if his god half is eternal and almighty
that fact dosent add up to many answers he could…
1.die to save humanity and be revived to show
that knowone shall ever test his power as a
almighty one.
2.destroy humanity prooving his evil downgrading
him below the almighty level as he falls to the
hands of another being like satan who can reclaim
his inlightment destroying and disconnecting all
remains of god giving him the chance to make another
high-intellect race.
your choice fate shouldn’t be toyed with i would just let
the question remain.
Well, if everyone is finished taking a dump on this thread, would anyone like to take a serious shot at saying something thoughtful?
JT
I was being very serious. That’s why he died. People can’t stand the kind of behavior that Jesus showed. That’s why other famously “good” people died down through history.
I gotta say, I think your 'other than’s are the biggest part of the reason. From the earthly perspective, he was killed for expediency: the execution of someone back in those days wasn’t nearly as big a deal as it is now, and if it would keep the Jewish authorities happy, then why not?
Spiritual, His death has all sorts of importance. The fact that He was killed by humans for doing nothing wrong underlines his importance as the last sacrifice, and His conquering of death was what sealed His message- I daresay if He wasn’t Ressurected, we’d have never heard of Him.
Jesus’ story holds a profound symbolic significance. I have no idea why anyone would want to torture another human being in such a way. That sort of cruely is beyond me. However, the story has great spiritual significance. Profound, yet so simple. Jesus sacrificed his physical life (non-attachment) so that he may gain eternal life. He was pointing out the way symbolically so that we may understand the spiritual significance. This physical human life has the capacity to mirror the life of our soul, it is the soul that must Master the body and the mind. The only way we were able to grasp the meaning was to see it before our very eyes. It was meant to move us. Did it work?
All of this however seems obvious, it would seem to me that Jesus knew the difference and thus willingly accepted his destiny. He was showing us the way. I don’t believe that he died to ‘save’ us, but rather to save himself and show us what is required. We needed a wake up call.
A
I am with you liquidangel. Perhaps He was showing us how to be Sons of God. Is that what a leader, or big brother is supposed to do? Give his life to protect and set a good example for His little brothers? Don’t guess He would need an armored limo to ride in. Or was His goodness, and fine example of doing right, exposing what the other leaders were doing wrong?
“I have no idea why anyone would want to torture another human being in such a way.”
The point is that people start thinking of other people as being supermen and “need” to be shocked out of it. We even see this in the media.
Tom Cruise has a wet fart! Pictures inside!
Ok, well so has everyone, I assume. However, Tom is never ever supposed to have a wet fart and that’s why it’s news (to some).
So, if one can show the masses their hero’s intestines or make him beg for mercy the idolization is broken. That’s one reason why people get tortured or broken.
On a lighter level, that’s why prisoners are made to wear silly uniforms.
I’m still not convinced that he had to die. While it is true historically that many have suffered for counter-authority speech and activity, including death, was the historical Jesus crucified for his message or a perceived threat to authority? It seems unclear to me.
But the thrust of my question is more about the necessity of the biblical explanation that he was sentto die. While Judaism, as well as many other religions of that era, believed in animal sacrifice to expiate sin before God(s), other than a ‘planting on’ of traditional ideas of sacrifice, why would his physical death be required? I understand the allegory of born again, and even the allegory of spiritual ressurection, (I remain skeptical of an actual physical ressurection), what was behind the necessity of of his physical death?
JT
It all depends on the angle you are choosing to view the situation from. Like all things in life, it depends on what you see.
A
Angel,
Of course perspective is important, but it fails to address the issue from any perspective. The question still remains, What was the necessity of Jesus’ death? What is it in terms of spiritual understanding that makes it impossible for him to have lived to a ripe old age?
JT
Maybe every love story ends in tragedy?
Maybe every grain/plant God must die in order to be reborn?
Hey xander,
True. But But that is inevitable for all things. It still fails to address the necessity of Jesus to have not lived out a normal lifespan. Some one splain that to me.
JT
I think Christ did not live because it was important that mankind display his brutality toward god, in order for god to illustrate how he thinks and what he wishes for in the world.
The tale of christ, if we forget all the zealous christian connotations , is a tale of a man who asked us to be good , and we slaughtered him. Perhaps why god allowed this to happen is a bit like a parent allowing a child to do something bad in order for it to realize why its bad.
We have free will, so god cannot force us or we are slaves and not humans, therefore assuming the world is wicked{why the world is wicked is another tale }we have had to learn from scratch the basics of compassion and humanity.
You say that as if it is a given. It isn’t.
It is a given , because Im free to act as I like and nobody will take my free will away!
any other questions?
This is no easily answered question and it depends on what kind of answer you wish to recieve.
Theologically: The idea, at least the way I kind of look at it, is that the living man Christ had to die to take on the eternal punishment of all. The idea of a sacrificed god for all people comes through in many myths and religions. For instance Thor is pinned to the world tree Ygdrassil in Norse myths, Osirus is slain by Set and reasurrected by Isis. He is the symbol of the divine in each person. The idea that even in the face of torture and death, even if the mortal self rots away the spirit self will live on. In this way the ideas of death and reasurrection are important to discover the true nature of ourselves.
Historically: The danger of Christ is what he said that went against the religion and the politics of the time. The Romans saw Jews as cultists, a strange sect outside the normal Pagan religion, however Judism does not set to convert people. Jesus does he tells his disciples to spread his word to all peoples, not just descendents of Abraham and the Isrielites. His words were dangerous because they were subversive. Jesus said that “No master is greater than his servent.” and spoke that he was the son of god and he could destroy and rebuild the temple. These were very dangerous ideas that underminded the current class structure of Rome, as well as local church’s authority.
While we look back upon Christ we see him as being a unique indivdual. If you believe that he was in fact divine and the true son of God then he was unique, but it did not seem so at the time to many people. There were many religious radicals who popped up saying they were the sons of God or one of the prophits. Christ had to die to make a statement to any other potential subversives to the authority of Rome. Plus, Roman prisoners died. Crusifixtion was not an uncommon form of punishment for far less things that being a subversive cult leader (which was how they saw Christ). So, I guess one of the reasons why Christ had to die is that, well, Romans killed alot of people and they didn’t think of this one religious crazy as any different.