Question - Have you even read the bible? Do I need to start digging up scriptural references? That was the whole point of the ‘sacrifice’ jesus made, that he would take away the sins of man and once again open the kingdom of heaven.
Dr.S
First of all Jesus as “son” is not God the Father but, like us, within God on a higher level then us and in the image of the Father.
Consider the following:
Jesus’ sacrifice within our cosmos was in accordance with the interaction of universal laws much like karma. His sacrifice was the result of objective rather than subjective knowledge. This is real magick. It is working with universal mechanical laws through consciousness and will.
The Christian idea (thank you, I have read the Bible) is that God, being perfectly good, cannot accept imperfections (evil people, for example) without having his perfection compromised. There seems to me to be some inherent logic in this idea. This is not a “rule” that God “made.”
He did however, offer a solution.
Nick, again, your ideas are interesting and worthy of consideration, but certainly are nowhere near the ‘vanilla’ christian ideas.
Jerry…so you are nitpicking over word selection? The ‘rule’ that people aren’t allowed into heaven because they were ‘evil’ was arbitrarily changed on a whim, or so the story goes. The reasoning behind this ‘rule’ (evil gives god the willies) really isn’t the issue.
How is it at all logical for a deity that is suposedly all powerful to have to go through all that just to change his mind about who constitutes adequate eternal company in his sky fortress?
Your problem (one of them anyway) is that you insist on contemplating God anthropomorphically, building straw men (“God changes his mind on whims“) then tearing the straw men down.
The resurrection story, in at least one way (and a well-regarded way) of considering it, brings forth a potential solution for the serious problem of how a perfect being may logically deal with the imperfections that are man. Namely, by sacrificing that part of us (represented by the crucifixion of Jesus’ human self) which is responsible for turning away from God (the ego self) and allowing that part of us (represented by the resurrected Christ) that is the true self - that part of us that is connected to God - to shine forth and allow God to be manifested through us, even (or especially) in the here and now. Your sky fortress is before you. You can’t see it. Pity.
The word ‘perfect’ is meaningless without referential context.
What foolishness.
Quote:
The Absolute can as little interfere in our life and substitute other results in the place of the natural results of causes created by us, or created accidentally, as he can beat the ace of trumps with the deuce.
you said what foolishness
i say yes the god is foolish
Death of the inocent will not undo “sin”, “sin” is acting under a state of incompleteness, ilogic or imbalance.
I now see “sin” as a weakness that needs love and support and charity to be un-done, yet evil comes when you put yourself above others, and put your desires above needs… knowing that it is wrong then doing…
If i were God you would all know and see me and i would be your best freind, that would be a real switch wouldnt it!?
Theres my two sence, but my limited powers means i cant realy save anyone 
still, i love you all, have a great day!
^
Insanity!
Also is the earth itself sentient?
Earth is inanimate matter, collective logic of non-harmonious diversity of all life or human ideal is not a science or a truth!
I see WAY too much perpose-amalgumation with mass principal theories!
please try to isolate roots of individual directions, thanks
Jesus Died For Our Sins!
It is so “defeated†idea, and I think that it was created by the affection of the Greek Mythology were Zeus is the half spirit/man god, and who is the “Lord†(As a King in another word) who owns this world and humanity. No wonder that Christianity went to Europe through Greece, and hence Greeks mixed it with their heritage and it arrived to Europeans as that. Furthermore, those who claim that Jesus died for people’s sins and hence they will go to heaven if they believed in him, do not give any respectful view to social order, and how could people behave in this life if they have “passes of heaven†in their hands? Of course crimes will rise up because of myths as “feeling Jesusâ€, “Seeing Jesusâ€, “Knowing Jesus†and “Loving Jesusâ€. And how about “Loving†thing? As I can recall, no history or religion was more bloody than the Christian History where people got their tongs ripped off and burned alive just for not to bow to some muddy pastors as Charles Dickens called them in his master peace “The Tale of Two Citiesâ€.
Loving, Loving, Love, Loving, Love… Et. That is all we can get out of this whole thing. Morality? Well, Jesus things it is always wrong to kill (for example) so we have to set and wait for Terrorists to kill us may be. In another sense, Jesus is too absolutist that he can’t allow the human mind to defend its own freedom. So, Jesus is not enough to live in peace… for smart people I mean.
Religion must be affecting in the social life, family, laws and self-confidence. Based on Christianity, it doesn’t give any of that and it is unable to drive the society and never well, since it as all about some childish emotions and believing in Christ. Well, what after this to help us in our lives? Jesus doesn’t seem to care.
“Jesus died for our sins”
Humans are naturally sinful, it’s in our blood. God can’t dwell with sin, so he sent the “perfect” sacrifice to bear every sin of the future. God is outside of time and knows every sin we will commit. When we accept Jesus in our hearts, it means that we recognize the sacrifice he made and are marking our “souls” with his blood.
“Jesus died for our sins”
Humans are naturally sinful, it’s in our blood. God can’t dwell with sin, so he sent the “perfect” sacrifice to bear every sin of the future. God is outside of time and knows every sin we will commit. When we accept Jesus in our hearts, it means that we recognize the sacrifice he made and are marking our “souls” with his blood.
Why should this “God†dies for our sins? And what good that would give humanity? Shouldn’t he just give us a good social system so we can live happier? Why do we have to be emotional to know him? Why can’t he be the God of reason instead? Then, it seems that he didn’t stop our sins at all, so why does he have to bother? And O, how about this, if this God of yours died for 3 days, then who was doing his job at that time?
Jesus loves you… !
No thanks, I love Socrates.
well, I will try to explain this, but God is the father, son, and holy spirit. He made a perfect being, his son, but without the means of a mother. So Jesus was the perfect sinless sacrifice to pay for all our sins in the past and present. You ask why does he bother to help with sins and why doesn’t he create a social nirvana. The problem is, you might as well ask why he even created us. Were are destructive and sinful in nature. The reason he doesn’t come in and force his will on us is because he gives us free will. Mankind has the choice to obey or not, its our choice. Also, when jesus died for 3 days, God was still in control. Jesus was still taking our sin in.
[size=150]I think my argument is pretty simple:
If you claim that Jesus died for the humanity’s sins, then what is the purpose of the Moral Principles in this life, when people that no matter what they do, they would still go to heaven because “Jesus Loves Them†or because “They Believe in Jesus†and hence it is ok to some crimes, or may be some people think this world is hell so let them do whatever they need.
The question is what morality does Christianity give after that claim of forgiveness to those who believe in its God? [/size]
The thing is, you don’t go to heaven for “believing” in God. You go when you accept him and live by his laws. Even the demons believe in God. At least they tremble, fearing his very existance. People think that just because they believe that there is a god, they will go to haven. Sorry, I believe there is a law. If I don’t submit to it’s guide lines, I’m off to jail. Right? I would rather die never knowing of God than to die as just a believer. At least I wouldn’t be held accountable for my ignorance.
But thats just my opinion. According to my knowledge of my religion.
So Jesus is a high-res human being? Like a model # 2?
On the topic…
As I see it:
Jesus died for our sins=it’s all our fault that he died!
dunno,
Well, there seem to be any number of interpretations of this. Interestingly, in the more primitive Christian writings, and in a lot of the stuff eminanting out of the Christian East to this day, the emphasis is not really on the judicial/legal aspect, which seems to dominate western thought as the first millenia closed (and certainly after Anselm of Canterbury showed up on the scene with his work Cur Deus Homo?)
The bigger emphasis for the early/eastern Christians was the idea that Christ represented a new/renewed form of humanity, which his followers could participate in through faithfulness and participation in the “holy mysteries” (baptism, eucharist, etc.). The “old man” or “fallen man” was a dead end as far as they were concerned, and existed under “God’s wrath”. However being thoroughly hellenized, they clearly understood all descriptions of God (including those which pointed to emotional motives) as being allegorical - since they did not believe that God, who was all serene and lacking nothing, could have “emotions” as we do, since that implies movement/change. Taken to their logical conclusion, a lot of their soteriological ideas placed the burden of what needed to change decidedly on the side of man - it was man who deep in his heart was at enmity with God, who lived in fear of death (and was moved by this fear to live in a way they thought unbefitting of man’s true essence), man who was mercinary, etc. IOW, they did not literally believe there was an upset old-guy in the sky, who needed a whipping boy of some kind to take his angst out on (and that, hallelujah, Jesus gets the lickin’ we ourselves deserve at the hands of an angry God.)
And here we have the main foundation of the ‘guilt’ aspect of religious conversion and belief in this particular faith.
Guilt and fear are a powerful alchemy to achieve ‘obedience’…