why do people believe in a god?

ok, first off.

There are several gods. People all have a different view of the creator of the universe, and thusly there’s either no god or several gods.

I also think that people who have sh*tty lives tend to believe in the more constricting gods.(a) Or your born into a constricting religion, brainwashed to believe it’s “bible truth” (or “koran truth”, Bhagavad Gita truth, etc) from childhood. Some people (through what proves the soul) are born with questioning minds though, and when told a “truth” of the world, they don’t accept it and question it.

This is un-natural and goes against natural evolution by itself. My estimate is that those who are born questioning everything are older “souls”. They’ve been around the block so to speak.

So knowing this, why believe that your version of god is correct? Isn’t POSSIBLE, that what you think of god is in fact the construct of the organizer of said religion? Isn’t possible that spiritual enlightenment lays outside the realms of construct?

All religions and all versions of god, are constructs of MEN. Man built god in his own image.(b) The ultimate creator. The ultimate protector. The ultimate vengeance when someone crosses you or doesn’t listen to you or doesn’t love you.

Men are all of those things. God is simultaneously none of those things and all of those things. God is female and male, yin and yang. Enlightenment is available to those who ask.

(a) these types of people tend to feel alone and are in fact doing things to hurt themselves and others. Instead of taking the logical step that your current behavior is the cause of your pain, they make the illogical step that the lack of god is the cause of your pain. These types of people NEED the strict structure of moral religion to have any sort of morality. That is why when confronted with "the (insert your holy book here) is not a source of ultimate morality. Their reply will always be “without that ultimate morality, people would hurt, maime and kill!”. This of course is not true. One flip through any of these books and you can see that our modern world has BETTER morality than the people within these books.

(b)Early religions (which haven’t evolved), based their god on what they knew. God lived IN the clouds, LITERALLY. The Earth was flat, and god destroyed cities with volcanos. I’m gonna guess that some of the historical documents that the catholic church destroyed during the inquisition showed that early christians believed that pompeii was a sign of the return of christ.

Have,nt you considered that the message in all religions might be the same and that its just our stupidity that creates the illusion of a god who cant make his mind up ?

True . Annoying is,nt it.

So you believe in reincarnation ?

scythekain,

That was a good post. I think that it has a lot to do with stuff that I raised in the Plato cave thread. I think that we are largely born outside of illusion and then get scared or disappointed into it. That is why people believe in a god. They can’t take what is going on around then and then mentally divorce themselves from life on Earth. I think that they are contrasted by those people that although indoctrinated manage to break free and see life for what it is.

I recall that Voltaire was puzzled by the squalid existence of man as compared to other animals. Whatever accidents made us unable to really care for ourselves too well also created our existential horror.

I have considered that, and it’s a negative for a couple of reasons. (that would take up a whole thread of it’s own)

1. These differing religions have very different views of god, heaven and man’s relationship to god.

2. These differing religions ARE similiar in the way they treat outsiders. (those not in the religion). Then jews persecuted the christians (along with the romans) than the christians persecuted the jews and pagans. Today the muslims, christians and jews (as a rule) tend to think down on those that are not believers. Sometimes it’s more extreme than that in each religion. in this preview:

thegodmovie.com/clip-Trailer.php

You can see a christian pastor proclaim that when a jew prays it falls on deaf ears. “god doesn’t care about the prayers of non christians.”

the truth is always more annoying than fantasy. You’d never see Stephen Hawking become a born again christian.

but a stripper? that’s an easy conversion.

telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … wstop.html

Yes, I do. I’ve not undergone hypnotherapy, but I’ve had some VERY interesting dreams that can only be attributed to foresight (dreaming of somewhere I’m going, for example I dreamt about the exact details of what my work would look like years before I started working there.), hindsight (dreaming of things and places that took place before I was born. ) futuresight (dreaming of things that will happen. The most interesting was the submarine tour of LA)

adler,

thanks.

missed that one. I’ve been dealing with a sinus infection the past week.

I don’t think all of us have the ability to see beyond the illusion. My cousin, for example, when I bring forward my questions towards his religion (and formerly mine) he gets highly offended and quotes the standard line. I think MOST people are like him. They cannot see beyond what is in front of them. It is of no fault of their own, and the very least they can do is take the lessons they learn in this life to the next one.

this is more complex. Some people believe in god because the religion promises that “whoever believeth in me shall not die”, or “Virgins await those who enter paradise.”

Then you have people like me, who believe in god not for any of those reasons, and not for fear of death.

I think that could be said about atheists and agnostics as well.

I think Eastern Philosophy better touches the situations of man and animal than western. The western philosophers were tainted by catholicism.

Who wouldn’t choose existentialism over that?

As an atheist I believe that you deny the existence of god, and the “supernatural”.

I’ve been there myself and I felt the same way I felt when I was following religion.

Something’s missing.

I’m denying some basic truth.

Do you believe this is indicative of Christian attitudes in general ?

Well yes , but there are still plenty of christians who are disabled etc ?

Can only ? Are you sure there is,nt a simpler fraudian type explanation ?
You,ve exhausted all other avenues with your research ?

Your not keen on religion obviously , so where has your belief in reincarnation come from ?

Which deities sustains the cycle of rebirth you believe in ?

No deity is required for reincarnation. One could even make a case (just for fun) that the Law of Conservation of Energy and Matter suggests that whatever makes us ‘sentient’ can’t be destroyed. What happens to this ‘essense’ then? Maybe it coalesce again into some other being.

I’m pretty sure that it turns into a puddle of salty muck and sinks into the ground.

So at what point in the natural , chaotic unfolding of the worlds creation did rebirth in humans first begin to exist ?

With cave men ?
Few thousands years later ? After evolving from the water , who were the first folk to be reincarnated according to your ideas ?

Suggests ? Is it fact or just a suggestion ?

When you say reincarnation , are you talking about reincarnation which entails punishment and reward , like karma ?

I’m not suggesting any type of reincarnation, merely pointing out that if such a thing were possible or true, it wouldn’t necessarily have any bearing on whether or not there is or ever was a (G)od/dess.

Nor can I claim reincarnation is one of “my” ideas. Alas, that notion arose some millenia before I was ever born. Unless of course, I’m the reincarnation of whoever thought of it first!

Hey some of the people on the board might argue that you are the reincarnation of the guy.

Speaking of re-incarnations…
Iron Dog?

So , you dont believe in reincarnation, which means you probably have,nt studied much about it at all , and yet your asking me to discredit thousands of years worth of spiritual opinion based on you saying

You cant say

Because you dont know if a deity is required or not . Its a bit like me as a novice saying to a maths proffesor , there is no number two required . "Reports suggest we can do away with the number two "

Dr S,

I am seeing some things that Iron Dog used to do and a friend of ours does do.

Ya, a whole host of signs. If he isn’t Iron Dog, he is his doppleganger.

Funny- I didn’t wanna be the first to say it, but there are shades of Iron Dog in DoL.

You’re talking about the difference between challenging a math professor and a dogma professor, aren’t you?

Actually, DoL, I do know. I’d explain the universe to you but it’s important that you figure it out on your own. You’ll get more out of it that way.

Dr S,

Do you know who I think Iron Dog is?

scythekain wrote:

I understand the logic here, but I want to make sure you understand it completely also. Not to contest your intelligence, just to assure that this is how you meant this statement. Saying that there is either no god or several gods, in itself suggest that either everyone is right in regards to religion, or noone is. There is truth in your statement, but rather the implications derived from this statement wont lead most people to seeing this truth. The truth is, God is a word used to describe that from which we derive. All religions point to this source and speak of it as all things in this world derive from, and from this derivation, are the source in the expression of form. Since this source is elusive and not in itself perceptible to the senses, its existence is only to be considered through its productions. From these productions it becomes apparent to sentient beings that there is more than meets the eye. This is inherent in our nature for the urge to grow and understand must derive from some place other than this wordly existence. Considering the vast derivations from the source, man attempts to interpret the source through these productions as he must. Further interpretation derives from himself, as he is a production as well. Religion is the result of these interpretations, and as interpretation must be filtered through previous experience, so are the truths that are reveled to man. Language is a barrier through which the aspects of the spiritual cannot be fully explained. So the belief in religion all points to the same source, simply through different interpretations of this source.

scythekain wrote:

Specific religions correspond to the specific growth of the soul. If one has, as you referred to it, “been around the block”; then this initiative that is shown does not denote the senselessnes of religion, for to reach this point they too have been involved with religion. But rather, this intiative applies to the natural nature of the soul to follow its own way after it has done enough of following others.

i think at least as good a question would be: why don’t people believe in god. People all over the world have spiritual traditions, and often believe in a highest god as well. it seems the odd man out is the athiest, set apart form society and himself, who believes his religiious experience is a psychological illusion.

so, why don’t people believe in god, scythekain? i would ask if there is any other psychological illusion like it, but then i know i would be answered, “knowledge”.

Now that would make an interesting subject.

because there is no physical evidence for him, and most atheists are afraid to make the jump that something supernatural could exist despite all the evidence to suggest otherwise.

no, Religious traditions. There is a huge difference. The spiritual traditions of Zen Buddhism doesn’t care whether or not you follow those spiritual traditions. The Religious traditions of the world care DEEPLY whether or not you follow there practices. Do you think that Al Qaeda is a purely political movement? They want to either:

A) turn the world into Muslims

B) destroy the infidels (which includes ALL none muslims.)

Of course this isn’t much different from the practices of the Church of England and the catholic church in Spain. (the Inquisition that lasted for at least 400+ years)

And christians today are still trying to send missionaries all over the world to convert people to follow the christ. Why? What if someone is already highly spiritual?

What if someone practices secular humanism and gives their life to helping others but can’t make the jump to believing in an “un-natural” god.

In my mind, even though I believe in some sort of creator of the universe that is un-definable, I think that it’s far more “logical” to not believe in one. The atheist suppresses his thirst for faith. It’s within all of us, and they leave it un-sated.

In general I think even christians who are liberal and can claim to love all religions of the world are speaking through veiled dualism. You can never overcome that christ said “only those who believe in me will never die” And when you combine that with old testament teachings to not allow differing people into your belief and that you should stone those that are different? It’s a recipe for societal disaster. It’s happened in the past. The Salem witch trials, the killing of the Sufi by the Muslim world, the burning of history in the inquisition.

If we were to compare them to Stephen Hawking, I think that there are two possibilities still:

A) They were born christian.

B) They allowed supplanted guilt to convert them to christianity. They were a wreck without the absolute moral authority I talked about before.

Yes I’m sure sex wasn’t involved.

from self supported evidence. And from some very interesting regression therapies I’ve seen.

This is a loaded question.

#1) no deity maybe required for such a cycle as Phaedrus stated.

#2) I dare make no claim to a deity I cannot see with my eyes, cannot touch, and cannot hear. (and certainly cannot smell or taste.)

But everything we smell, touch, taste and see has to go through several layers of extraction in our brain before reaching our cortex. We see the world how we want to see the world.