"The earliest Christians were Jews and had the same ambiguous attitudes toward astrological practices as other Jews. They were part of an astrological society.
Islam & christianity are derived from Judaism , which is derived from zoroastrianism , and other sumerian/egyptian beliefs , all have had astrology in them from the start ."
Yep. That’s about as much proof as one could ever want. There’s something to be said for iron-clad scholarship. 
Dunamis
No , the proof is in the other stuff you could,nt be bothered to read
I’m quite familiar with the history of astrology, and since none of the references seem to deal specifically with Church Fathers, could you please just paste the relevant passage, and not wax poetic about Mesopotamia, Islam and “the Jews” and the Coptic Church? I assume by “Church Fathers” you are speaking of the early church from Ambrose and before.
Dunamis
Try reading the thing!
Are you impaired? It would be like saying, let’s hear about the history of Platonism – not unrelated. But here are my brief thoughts. I’m not sure who the “church elders” in your mind are, but being part of an “astrological society”, or having a historical lineage to distant Mesopotamia does not mean “practiced astrology”. There are many Old Testament admonitions against astrology and there seems to be a rather strong sense that immediately before and after the fall of Jerusalem, the earthly powers that Paul speaks against are not only the political forces in the world (Rome), but also the “planetary” forces, commonly seen as daimons. (There is even a sense that the supramundane turn in Jewish-Christiantity, Platonism and the like, after the fall of that city was a disillusionment with mundane powers in general, including those of astrology.) As far as I can tell, other than perhaps early Gnostic thinking which promoted the idea of intercessory powers in grades (though the probable conflations between the “Demiurge”, god Aeon, the outer most planet of malevolence Saturn, and Satan, suggest that the lower emanations/plants would be seen evil and therefore astrology as evil retard this), early Christian thought would have relegated astrology to Pagan Thought, something that by the time of Augustine was in stark contrast to Christianity, both socially and theologically (other than the appropriation of Plotinus and a bit of Stoicism). I’m sure that there was some intermingling of astrology with medical thinking and magic through the middle ages, but we have very, very few records of this. Not til the Renaissance and the resurgence of Platonism and Magic, after the influx of Arabic texts, did Christianity and Astrology come together in a strong way, and only then with very mixed consequences. All of the early astrological texts from the period you seem to suggest, are of pagan origin. How about that, and no vague, misleading links?
Dunamis
Perhaps if you actually read the thread you would see that it mentioned which elders .
Im aware of this and have addressed it in my thread.
Again this is covered in the information provided …
Actually , there are many surviving documents , Ive provided just two in my thread .
Your quite funny actually .
How about this : firstfoot.com/geneolagy/images/brucie.jpg
Dunamis
Ok . I,ll expand some more on it in a bit.
Are you a woman ?
A hot woman.
But my dear, I’ll be interested in who the “church elders” are, expand anytime you like – please again, leave out the Kabbalah, Islam and the Coptic Church.
Dunamis
Hot headed you mean .
Are you a lapsed christian or something ?
If it was ,nt there for sure you would have said " but where,s the history in all of this , vague references to modern coptic churches , what ? "
I’ll just take this to mean you have no idea who the “church elders” are. No problem.
Cheers.
Dunamis
oh… he did,nt like that
So much effort over a question that could have been answered with two or three names, and a corroborating link.
Dunamis, thanks for the link to Jesus’ birth-thinger. It’s got a certain John Dee chic. (And no, Dr John Dee does not count as a Church Elder, DoL).
Disciple of light:
I have the feeling that we have enjoyed only a short time with him.
Doin it fur the kids !
You, sir, are insane.
Call Imp! It’s a drive-by ad hom!
Chuckle, do we really know what month he was born? The range is six months. I will take a look at your link.
Christ was born in end July - august , we know this because of the mention in the bible concerning the lion of the tribe of Judah . But this makes no sense you exclaim !
Well , again using astrology we see that judah is none other than the constellation of leo .
Judah is likened to a " lions whelp " for this reason . Leo is between July -august . Therefore christ , as a Leo was the lion of Judah . Amazingly you will find that very few people know this .
The bible says :
Judah [is] a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
“The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs; and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.”
Actually , if you visit the link below , you will see that the 12 sons of Jacob are really symbols for the 12 planets , thats why there are 12 !
[i]You will find that when you read the description Jacob gives of his sons , that they correspond with the characteristics of each star sign .
For example , Issachar is taurus . You will see that Jacobs son Issachars qualities reflect exactly those of the constellation we call taurus .
So on and so forth .[/i]
It seems to me that everything is connected in the universe and is under influences. From that perspective it would be hard to discount astrology.
However, if the purpose of Christianity is re-birth, it is obvious why becoming obsessed with it for the betterment of the ego and its preconceptions of earthly life would defeat the purpose of Christianity so naturally was cautioned against on that basis. Then,of course, the experts began analysing the situation and we ended up with things like the Salem Witch trials.
But anyhow, here is some interesting ideas on it for those interested.
cura.free.fr/xxx/29robts.html For example:
Evidences
One of the most powerful evidences for astrology in christianity is found in the very beginning of the scriptures:
" And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years " Genesis 1:14
If we are willing to trust our judgment rather than go by Old Testament commands in civil matters then why not also judge astrology for what it is, looking at the subject with an open mind?
Contrary to condemning astrology the Bible is actually quite supportive. For instance, the prophetess Deborah tells us that the stars “fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.” (Judges 5:20)
He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Psalms 147:4
If astrology is evil, Daniel and his friends were evil.
we know, Daniel received knowledge from God about the meaning of the dream which truly impressed the King.
Daniel, who was clearly named as one of the wise men (another name for the magi/astrologers), was appointed “governor” over all the magi. Obviously Daniel was an astrologer/magi himself if he was identified as such by the king when they were targeted for death and later as their leader when they were allowed to live.
Therefore, if astrology is evil, Daniel and his friends were evil.
{From link below }
