Christian Astrology

Icthus means "fish " in greek .
Some say that the early christians simply scratched the symbol of Icthus , the fish , on buildings that were to hold secret meetings , since christianity was being persecuted at the time.

But why use a fish ?
Of course you could say it was to signify the fisher of men perhaps . But there are so many other things that christ could be seen to represent , why not a circle , or a square ?

Actually the church elders and the people they wanted to attract were aware of and practised astrology .

The fish itself holds a deeper symbolic gesture .

The astrological age of Pisces coincided with the birth of Jesus Christ , approximately 2,000 years ago.

Christ was recognized as Icthus because the sign of pisces is the sign of self sacrafice . This is why christians must be aware that christs laws are by no means finished . Because they were given in the age of pisces .

Things were different then . Hearts and minds have moved on and now the world is under the influence of saturn & the sun , Aquarius and its opposite leo.

The law has already changed and most religious folk have,nt even noticed .

The age of aquarius may have come , but it seems few christians & muslims are making a move towards embracing it at the moment .

They prefer hanging onto the past , to the influences of the planets in days gone by , when men were simpler minded , and hardened by zealousness and fanaticism.

Even though they are invited by heaven itself to move on , they wallow in the past.

the “fish” also is the letter alpha.

Who was it who said they are the alpha and the omega?

Is this a trick question ?

rhetorical.

Two questions: First, you said that the church elders practiced astrology. Which ones, and how do you know.

Second, can you find an example of Pisces actually being represented as a fish, instead of two fish stylized into a sort of yin-yang, or an ‘h’ with inwardly-curved vertical struts? I haven’t seen Pisces ever represented as anything looking remotely like the Christian fish.

For those interested in the questionable silliness of a birthchart of someone whose month of birth isn’t even known,

Jesus’ supposed chart:

members.tripod.com/~Labyrinth_3/chart.html

Dunamis

" The fundamental work of Kabbalah & astrology is the Bible, and more specifically the Pentateuch (Torah). "

{from below}

smoe.org/arcana/kabbalah.html

[i]
The earliest Christians were Jews and had the same ambiguous attitudes toward astrological practices as other Jews. They were part of an astrological society.

Islam & christianity are derived from Judaism , which is derived from zoroastrianism , and other sumerian/egyptian beliefs , all have had astrology in them from the start .

Coptic church is closer to christs original teachings than the church of Peter because christ preached hermetic like principles {principles of hermes trigmesterus }, and the coptic church coming from egypt not only spoke ancient egyptian but obviously had a very good grip on hermetic teachings , being that hermes trigmesterus was an egyptian king .

By the time the new religion of christianity had taken over , they were off to a head start in understanding the principles of christs teachings .

The coptic church is a truer reflection of christs teachings also because they have had the clarity to keep alive a " desert tradition " meditating in the desert intensively , which of course is what christ done himself .

Its this tradition that resembles very closely the principles of zen teaching .[/i]
See the link below for an excellent example of how zen and early christianity were practically the same thing .

wisdompubs.org/products/0861711874.cfm

The coptic church not only was one of the first churches to emerge , but it maintained closer the teachings of christ , and this included astrology .
And One place early Christianity grew from quickly is ethiopia .The Ethiopian church is part of the Coptic Church .

This link below will explain how astrology is accepted by the ethiopian church even today.

sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/africa … lture.html

" From the very beginning, astrology and Christianity have been tied together . Astrology cleaved onto Christianity throughout the course of the young religion’s development, proving a more than worthy helpmeet as it struggled to define its place in this world, and in the cosmos

{from link below }

This link will expalin to you that in general the coptic church used and continues to use astrology ;

cura.free.fr/xxx/29robts.html

" The earliest Christians were Jews and had the same ambiguous attitudes toward astrological practices as other Jews. They were part of an astrological society, but they wanted to avoid idiolatry, worshiping gods other than the Father of Jesus "

{from link below }

smoe.org/arcana/astrol7.html

The greek church ;

The roots of Western Tropical astrology (the type of astrology most Westerners are familiar with today) date all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia (2300 BC).

Judaism ;

" Solomon, “The Epistle to Rehoboam: Introduction and Translation,” {Unpublished translation and introduction by Dr. Scott Carroll. The introduction has been published in Journal for the Study of the Pseudepigrapha 4 (1989): 91-103. This is a very interesting first century CE document of Jewish astrological magic and astral religion

Sukenik, Eleazar Lipa, The Ancient Synagogue of Beth Alpha: An Account of the Excavations Conducted on Behalf of the Hebrew University, Jerusalem by E. L. Sukenik (Jerusalem: The Hebrew University. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1932) {Sukenik excavated this famous ancient synagogue and its zodiac mosaic. This is the official record of his research. He says little about astrology, merely that, since it was widely practiced, no one should be surprised at its use in art.
{from link below }

smoe.org/arcana/astrol6.html

" It is not surprising that Constantinus studied in the East, for collaboration between Jewish and Arabian scholars had resulted in a correlation of astrological knowledge at such centres as Cairo, Baghdad, Alexandria and Kairwan in Tunis, which produced at least one remarkable scholar in Isaac ben Solomon Israeli, or Isaac Judaeus, who worked there in the 900s, and wrote books on medical astrology which survived for centuries (Robert Burton quotes from him in The Anatomy of Melancholy).

{ Below }

meta-religion.com/Esoterism/ … europe.htm

The belief in astrology was widespread throughout eaurope and the east , of course most of the churches did,nt mind because they themselves preached astrology ;

" Outside the university walls, the belief in planetary powers was wide-spread enough that rulers retained their own court astrologers. Frederick II (1194-1250) employed Michael Scot, Federigo da Montefeltro (Duke: 1468-82) Paul of Middelburg, and Rudolf II

{ from link below }

hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/astrology.html

In medieval europe , & in the east , astrology and medicine went hand in hand ;

shm.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/conte … t/17/3/345

Astrology in Islam ;

smoe.org/arcana/astrol8.html {very good info }

hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/isaslabeastrol.html

Translations ;

Sanskrit Greek English Sanskrit Greek English

Kriya Krios Aries Juka Zugos Libra
Tavura Tauros Taurus Kaurpi Skorpios Scorpio
Jituma Didumoi Gemini Taukshika Toxotes Sagittarius
Kulira Karkinos Cancer Akokera Aigokeres Capricorn
Leya Leon Leo Hridroga Hudrochoos Aquarius
Pathona Parthenos Virgo Chettha Ichthues Pisces

{from below }
accessnewage.com/articles/astro/rhist3.htm

What the Bible Says

How many of those who consult their horoscopes daily are really trying to avoid the responsibility of decision making? There is a security in knowing it is “in the stars.” But it is a false security.

Our minds were given to us so we can weigh facts, come to our own conclusions and make our own decisions. God’s Spirit works with us to develop a sound mind (2 Timothy 1:7).

We have to realize that to be clever is to be rational .Of course we should not live our lives round planets , superstitiously , but nevertheless we can use them to help us . Timothy here is warning of the excesses only , of astrology.

"The earliest Christians were Jews and had the same ambiguous attitudes toward astrological practices as other Jews. They were part of an astrological society.

Islam & christianity are derived from Judaism , which is derived from zoroastrianism , and other sumerian/egyptian beliefs , all have had astrology in them from the start ."

Yep. That’s about as much proof as one could ever want. There’s something to be said for iron-clad scholarship.

Dunamis

No , the proof is in the other stuff you could,nt be bothered to read

I’m quite familiar with the history of astrology, and since none of the references seem to deal specifically with Church Fathers, could you please just paste the relevant passage, and not wax poetic about Mesopotamia, Islam and “the Jews” and the Coptic Church? I assume by “Church Fathers” you are speaking of the early church from Ambrose and before.

Dunamis

Try reading the thing!

Are you impaired? It would be like saying, let’s hear about the history of Platonism – not unrelated. But here are my brief thoughts. I’m not sure who the “church elders” in your mind are, but being part of an “astrological society”, or having a historical lineage to distant Mesopotamia does not mean “practiced astrology”. There are many Old Testament admonitions against astrology and there seems to be a rather strong sense that immediately before and after the fall of Jerusalem, the earthly powers that Paul speaks against are not only the political forces in the world (Rome), but also the “planetary” forces, commonly seen as daimons. (There is even a sense that the supramundane turn in Jewish-Christiantity, Platonism and the like, after the fall of that city was a disillusionment with mundane powers in general, including those of astrology.) As far as I can tell, other than perhaps early Gnostic thinking which promoted the idea of intercessory powers in grades (though the probable conflations between the “Demiurge”, god Aeon, the outer most planet of malevolence Saturn, and Satan, suggest that the lower emanations/plants would be seen evil and therefore astrology as evil retard this), early Christian thought would have relegated astrology to Pagan Thought, something that by the time of Augustine was in stark contrast to Christianity, both socially and theologically (other than the appropriation of Plotinus and a bit of Stoicism). I’m sure that there was some intermingling of astrology with medical thinking and magic through the middle ages, but we have very, very few records of this. Not til the Renaissance and the resurgence of Platonism and Magic, after the influx of Arabic texts, did Christianity and Astrology come together in a strong way, and only then with very mixed consequences. All of the early astrological texts from the period you seem to suggest, are of pagan origin. How about that, and no vague, misleading links?

Dunamis

Perhaps if you actually read the thread you would see that it mentioned which elders .

Im aware of this and have addressed it in my thread.

Again this is covered in the information provided …

Actually , there are many surviving documents , Ive provided just two in my thread .

Your quite funny actually .

How about this : firstfoot.com/geneolagy/images/brucie.jpg

Dunamis

Ok . I,ll expand some more on it in a bit.

Are you a woman ?

A hot woman.

But my dear, I’ll be interested in who the “church elders” are, expand anytime you like – please again, leave out the Kabbalah, Islam and the Coptic Church.

Dunamis

Hot headed you mean .

Are you a lapsed christian or something ?

If it was ,nt there for sure you would have said " but where,s the history in all of this , vague references to modern coptic churches , what ? "

I’ll just take this to mean you have no idea who the “church elders” are. No problem.

Cheers.

Dunamis

oh… he did,nt like that

So much effort over a question that could have been answered with two or three names, and a corroborating link.
Dunamis, thanks for the link to Jesus’ birth-thinger. It’s got a certain John Dee chic. (And no, Dr John Dee does not count as a Church Elder, DoL).