If just one person is punishing someone, or being punished there is no peace on earth, correct? I mean, perfection is not really that hard to attain if you think about it. Example: I call my girl and tell her I am on my way home so she can go to work. on the way home, I stop to help a stranded motorist. When I get home a hour late I get cussed and accused of “lying”. Can I convince her I simply" changed my mind". Did I break the commandment “Thou shall not lie”? so is a lie and changing your mind the same action? So I suppose, I broke the commandment to follow another “treat others as I would want them to treat me.” I am confused on this.
Welcome back!
thanks! it is good to be back! I missed you guys. 
It depends whether you consider someone’s need to be a higher obligation than a promised personal obligation.
Her refusal to forgive your breaking of a lie to help someone would be her sin; refusing to support what I believe was Jesus’s foremost message (love one another in action as well as intent) would be her fault.
Just because a personal obligation is in place first doesn’t mean that it can’t be broken to accomodate a universal obligation.
Thank You. It makes me wonder though, how many people have been accused and punished for doing this very thing? Why is the Law and Jesus’ commandment conflicting like that?
Its not , so you would admit that you follow a flawed master ?
Obviously your interpretation is wrong , otherwise christs teaching would not be contradictory to you .
to say I was following a flawed master, would be a bit hasty. I simply have to find out why this is so. I am sure that there is an explanation.
At this present time with what I know, it is in conflict. I would be the one “flawed” by my ignorance.
David , try reading some of what I,ve written about christ in the religions forum .
It may not solve everything for you , but I think you should consider a new approach , since by your own admittal , the one you use at the moment is flawed.
There can be no contradiction in a masters teaching!
Otherwise he,s not a master is he?
There is no law against punishment , and for the world to be truly peaceful , we cannot do away with an element of chaos and evil .
imperfect people punishing other imperfect people? Maybe I should have made that clear. For a correct judgement, the judge must be able to discern the heart, and know if the person acted in ignorance, if they would repent if convinced that they were on the wrong path, How can we imperfect humans, ever do that? can imperfect humans teach other imperfect human what “perfect” is? Can they show and tell others how to be perfect? If this was so, they would be hypocrites, because the teachers aren’t perfect. Let me rephrase, If I was teaching people and “following” a perfect person, why am I NOT doing what the perfect person was doing? but telling others to do so? What does that mean I am doing?
I think that whether or not Jesus’s teachings are in concordance with what your girlfriend would like, your neighbor would like, or the law allows, you still must follow him first, if you believe yourself to be Christian.
I’m not christian, BTW.
Peace = War or no war?
Oh yeah. And about “commiting a sin to avoid something bad”… this is my pastor’s opinion: “That somebody does good in accordance to his or her level of faith.”
Lying is WRONG. But you can also be a stupid honest guy too.
During holocaust, there were refugees who hid in other people’s homes. The owner of the house had to lie in order to save lives. So?
“There’s a greater law than any of these. Love one another as you love yourself.”
“For if you are right, etc. but have no love. You have nothing.”
Well?
There are ways of formulating things without lying, but I think that it would be plain ridiculous to risk someones life just because I want to remain “pure” - in fact, it seems the height of hypocrisy and selfishness.
Shalom
I have to agree with Bob on this one. Lying is wrong, and that doesn’t change for the situation. However, we can all think of situations people can be put into where there is no ethically pure response. I’ve been wondering for a while now if ‘unethical’ means something other than ‘don’t ever do that’. Bob hints at it being about being ‘pure’, and I think that’s a big part of it. There are situations where I would lie. Situations where I would kill someone. I find myself wanting to say that in those situations I should lie or kill, but also saying that in those situations the lying and killing still wasn’t ethical.
Is there ever a line to be drawn between what one ‘should’ do and what is ‘ethical’, or am I just being inconsistant?
kind of like the age old paradox of what to say when your girl asks if she looks fat. Or in my case, mine asked me if I still loved my ex. I answered “yes”. I just told the truth. It is funny, she used to yell at me all the time about lying, saying she wished I would stop. Ok, I did and now she hates even more. She says she wished I was like I used to be. She gets real mad when I repeat things she says about other people, but I am telling the truth. I told her, if you are right, then you should have nothing to hide by telling the truth. She gets so mad she threatens to stab me, and bash my head in with a hammer sometimes. The nicer I be to her when she is mad, the meaner she gets. Then she tells me I am crazy. (strikes me as odd because she makes pizzas for a living, has never worked in the mental dept) The truth dos not upset me, because if I am doing something wrong I WANT to know about it. that way I can stop doing it before something bad happens. But if I really believe I am doing the right thing, and she cannot prove otherwise, I continue come hell or high water. She really hates that too. She is obsessed with making me conform to HER idea of what right and wrong is.
She is not having much luck. I admit it would make my life much simpler and less stressful to obey her, but I can see she is miserable with what she has done with her life, and I really don’t want that. I hope that somehow I am setting a good example to follow for her, but she resisting to a extreme degree. She thinks she is perfect. When I PROVE she isn’t, look out. It gets ugly sometimes. That is how I got my “homeless job.” It is ok though, I am not even close to “breaking” yet.
You should,nt be promoting that persons beliefs then really . Or if you do , promote them according to your level of discipline and subjective experience , compared to the person you are talking about as a spiritual leader .
If the spiritual master your talking about is in control of his faculties , beyond petty concerns and emotions , whereas you are full of negativity and childish , then it would be wise not to say too much about him .
In fact if you dont resemble your master to at least a reasonable degree it would be best not mentioning him at all , because you may end up making people think that he represents all that they see that is weak in you yourself.
For example You cant talk about and promote chi {energy} , really , if you dont know what chi is . Of course you can talk , but you have to ask yourself "why am I doing this " ?
Your looking too deeply into things I think.
David Redden wrote:
You didnt lie. When you called, you were on your way home. When you helped the motorist, you were still on your way home. Also, I dont think the difference in time can make something you previously said a lie. If it wasnt a lie when you said, it cant be later simply by a change in time or by a change in thought.
In consideration of your first question, peace is relative. It exist at all times, but since we all have subjective perceptions, only a few of us will attain to it at a time.
but funny don’t you think.
while the idea of lying is to save life, yet it makes much less of you if you lie only to save your own life. that there were many who were burnt in the past for not lying, paid their price as martyrs. while there were those who lied to save their own skins. the degree of faith is each to his own. I believe that everybody will be judged accordingly and justly in its own time.