It seems to me that all religions are obsessed with the “end of times”. Jews are still waiting for the messiah to save them. Muslims are waiting for the return of mohammed and or christ. And Christians are waiting for the christ to return as well.
But, what does that mean in simple terms?
Preceeding the return of these figures is the deaths of billions of people. Many of them condemned to an eternity in hellfire, for not believing in the right religion.
There is an end coming. Our own. And that is why “global destruction” is such a popular end times, theme. You will be saved and brought up from death before death. Paul believed it(romans ch13 vs 11 for one such example) was coming soon. And such christians have been taught that it’s in short coming for almost 2 millenia now.
But is the end short in coming?
In literal terms no. If anything brings about global catastrophe at this point it will be our own stupidity for not investing in other energy, cleaner energy, putting to much power into the military state, etc.
In figurative terms, we all must face the end. We are alive and thusly grasping at the straws of mortality. In many ways christianity doesn’t differ from modern death cults like “heaven’s gate”. They were promised immortality and that the passing comet would pick them up off the earth (much like the rapture will pick up believing christians before the end.)
So what’s my point?
That there is importance in mythology and not taking things too literally. Living life is important, but don’t think some mystical being is going to come save you from death. Paul believed that, as did Marshal Daniel (leader of heaven’s gate cult). They are both succumbed to death.
Interpretation is everything when considering religious text. When you say that an end is coming, and it is our own, I agree, but its something you can change. You speak of Paul being dead, but I do not believe this to be so. It appears as if Paul, same as Jesus, Buddha, Whitman, and few others attained to a level of spiritual actualization in which death no longer exist. The end of the world isnt marked simply by the end of the world, for there is much more to it than that. It is simply an end to the world as we know, for the scriptures say that there will be a new world. End of the world more so refers to the Second Coming of Christ and the Coming of Gods Kingdom. Gods Kingdom is accessible to those who realize it is accessible through our lives that we live now, not in our death. The attainment I have mentioned earlier, if you didnt realize is enlightenment, or cosmic consciousness. This provides much realization and included is immortality. Those who have entered The Kingdom of Heaven, ie. enlightenment, realize they have eternal life. In the Bible, Jesus speaks in parables how the last will be first and the first last when referring to the Kingdom of Heaven. I believe he is expressing how many will enter the Kingdom, even those who are “last” in moral change and has just begun their work toward the Kingdom. Only God knows where the cut off line is. But considering the events that must occur leading up to the Second Coming, there will be much death and famine and what I perceive to be a more distinct division of good and evil and those who are deserving of the Kingdom and those who are not. But basically, the Kingdom of Heaven is inside of us, it simply must be realized.
Many interpretations have screwed up the understanding of the verses, and many people blindly deceive themselves into believing they are Godly and will be saved when in reality they dont have the awareness to realize that it is only the outward projection that appears to be good while the truth lies within their intentions; these individuals can be likened to the Pharasies.
Also, your correct, talk about the end of times has been occuring for a long time. But if you noticed, there is a major religion based shift that occurs every two thousand years. This occurs with usually some illumined soul who has attained to enlightenment who brings about a new religion for the next two thousand years. For instance, I took this from http://www.adishakti.org/age_of_aquarius.htm.
You dont have to accept this information as truth, but I suggest at least entertaining it. If you noticed, it suggest that all the chakras are now open, and the path to the Kingdom can now be expidited with opening all of the chakras within oneself. There must be a balance in order to reach the Kingdom, of Mind Body and Soul. But basically, were in a New Age, and with a New Age comes new kinds of experiences and life, and more importantly, it appears were at the apex, so much will change, and much will be different. One can assume that of this much change, there will be the occurence of what could be referred to as “the end of times”… as we know them.
The impression I get from this though is that the ‘end of days’ will likely be of our own making. The different ages can also be viewed as the evolution of our collective consciousnesses in a way, even if that is controlled by certain divinity (or at least something with that power) indirectly, and/or via avatars. We are nearing a point in which our mental capacities may come to a point in which we can save ourselves or die basically.
We are a society caught in the inertiatic whiplash of the technological exponential carride. As things become more complex and advanced, we walk the tightrope over our own pit of daggers. This may be a poor example, but i always say I see the negative future for humanity as one of those planets in star wars which is basically filled with nothing but prostitutes, gambling and things like that - only I think we’d kill ourselves before we got to that point. This is the appocalypse… it is not four horsemen, it is 4 powerful countries ending the world with a few stupid decisions.
We can argue ethics and morality forever, but so long as we are all relatively nice to each other… we will attain the kingdom of heaven, and this will be of our own making, not so much some god… even if some sort of figure gave us a helping hand. I don’t think we need to burn in hell if we don’t follow the commandments, when you die you die, that’s it, but I think that that sort of fear is good in a way… guilt is a good thing for a developing species like ourselves. Similiarily the way you might make a child feel.
I mean think about it… the people in the biblical were very very dumb compared to us… they couldn’t understand evolution, or things like that. A 6 day timeframe for the creation of the earth is just a certain god’s way of saying to them “Look… you evolved out of apes, and I’m just addressing you now because you are starting to get smart and should adhere to… SOMETHING. So… that should quench your thirst until you get smart enough to realize differently.”
Perhaps the rebirth of Jesus isn’t a birth of 1 person, but it is the universal recognition of his state of mind, his outlook on life as one that is has a future void of self annhilation.
Perhaps God didn’t create us at all, but is simply watching out for us… giving us a helping hand. Like a babysitter over a bunch of kids that would burn down the entire apartment complex, in all its dimensions.
That’s a highly speculative opinion. You can no more prove that, than you can the existence of squirzels.
yea, the mayans believed that too, they have the end of “our age” marked at 2012. What most don’t realize is that they weren’t right about the end of their own age.
Every year some new whacko comes out and says the end of the world is nigh. (the world being in a global sense). We usually don’t pay any heed to them using our sensibilities and reason. Why should we pay heed to false prophets who predicted the world would’ve ended by now? (muslims, mormons, JW’s, christians, etc.)
The fact is looking at MOST religions (even Judaism is focused on the return “yeshua” (messiah) who will free them and rebuild the temple, to hearken (as you call it) a new age.) are focused on the end of the world being nigh when they start.
Christianity (called the church of god at the time, an offshoot of judaism), was focused on the coming of the christ, to bring about the end times, and the believers would be sucked up into heaven.
It didn’t happen, and now Paul is a pile of bone dust. Yet, this belief is still propagated as if the christ is going to still return. 2000 years later, and people still believe that. Same thing with muslims, who believe similiarly regarding mohammed. How many more millenia will pass before we realize they aren’t coming back and it’s an inward “end of the world” that the ancients were referring to?
So how did it all start?
Looking at the catastrophic events that happened in the recent past (the underwater city at the Black sea, the explosion of the volcano that destroyed the ancient city in crete (that dates to 4000 - 5000 BC) it’s only a matter of connecting local beliefs about god controlling such events and the return of such destruction upon future unbelievers.
Look at the tidal wave that inundated India. had that happened 2 millenia ago, everyone would be attributing it to god and think stronger than ever that the “end is nigh”.
the “age of” interpretations of the bible are spurious at best. You can read too far into something. One could take a line out of Alice and wonderland and make it a spiritual clause to live by.
I agree with the contents of your post. And I think your absolutely correct in your comments on the rebirth of Jesus. Furthermore, one can only speculate on the future, but I personally believe that all souls eventually get to the point to where they can enter into Heaven. I mean Ive struggled over and over with the concept of why some get to make it, and some dont, and your contemplation that “perhaps God didn’t create us at all”, would take care of my difficulties.
But for some reason I cant accept this. I think God did create us all, and when I speak of God I am speaking of the infinite consciousness that deevolves in the creation of a universe. I mean in this aspect all would be God, just at different levels. Well at the worldly level, there is ungodliness, and presumably the devil or evil however you want to refer to it. But its still of God, or apart of this infinite consciousness for any who have a hard time grasping that. But basically my point is, those who dont make it this time around, I believe their souls stay in a type of purgatory, or possibly some type of manifested hell, but this isnt for eternity. I dont think God would abandon Himself, but rather just give those souls more time to suffer in those intermediary levels of existence while a new universe is being created. I think its also important to note that when Jesus refers to hell, and pain and fire and all that, I think he is simply talking about the suffering of life without the Heavenly realization. The constant string of life and death which is suffering over and over again. So when the universe is created and evolution has reached the point to where conscious life exist, these idle souls will be reincarnated once again into a new world, and will have the opportunity to grow more, suffer more in this hell, but finally become part of the Kingdom if they get to reach that point. Those who already have reached the Kingdom from the previous world will be incarnated as avatars, used in order to push the evolution along of the younger less advanced souls.
Indeed it is speculative. But what is a squirzel? If your talking about a squirell then I can prove their existence in my reality for I see them all the time. But regardless, I think its important to note that these men among others were beyond the thought of most men. They all seemed to have a pressing need to help humanity, and not for profit. They also all seemed to have extreme moral elevation. Paul is a case that is a little harder to prove, but Richard Burke in “Cosmic Consciousness” does a great job of doing it. When Paul refers to “Christ” after his illumination he is referring to the Christ mind or cosmic consciousness, he had no other word for it, for all he understood was that he was filled with the spirit of Christ and spoke as him and had his same understandings. If you really pay attention and understand the words of Paul, he speaks just as Christ speaks. Not necessarily in parables, but his words are truth, if only you can understand the meaning he conveys. He definetely was beyond self-consciousness, or if he wasnt, then God or Christ simply took him over when he was writing, but I find that hard to believe that it was only at these times when he was in that mind.
I cant speak on these other religions, but Christianity doesnt have a timeline for the end of times. Jesus and Paul offer signs of the times that will alert one of the nearing of the time, but not even Jesus, nor any of Gods angels know the time, save for God. So you can listen to people saying its nigh and what not, but this is done because people dont know, and in retrospect, much time has been spent in this earthly existence. Why wouldnt the end time be nigh, in consideration, this isnt the beginning of times, so the end must be coming, and every day that goes by we get close and closer. Nigh has to be interpreted not necessarily as near in your terms of what near can be, but simply inevitable to come upon us. If you consider reincarnation, you will still be alive when it happens, possibly in a different body, or you might be among the dead, inbetween incarnations. Either way you will know when the end comes.
Your right about the Alice and wonderland, and if one would choose to do this, then thats their life. I mean there is truth in everything, and very well possible that the spiritual clause adopted could reflect some part of the objective truth that is the Law of God for how we should live. But personally, Id rather read the Bible or other religious text, with my understanding, because when interpreted correctly, they definetely are the truth. I would rather read the words of those who have achieved the Kingdom of Heaven for that is where I want to be, not in some fairy tale existence where I feel like my reality is the best plausible.
It means first of all that you shouldn’t believe all of what fundamentalists tell you.
But the “end of times†does reveal that the book religions yearn for extensive change. The Messiah and Christ are highly symbolic for a new Mankind. If change cannot happen from within, then it must come from without. All revolutionary movements have called for change and too often it was accepted that this was only possible through an uprising. Many people believe that there is only real change through conflict which is probably explainable because win-win situations generally require a longer phase of negotiation or even turn out to be lose-lose situations.
The biblical hope has evolved through the centuries and millennia, moving first away from the typical idolatry of the age, giving faith a mystical approach and gradually understanding that we do not have “gods†who have a limited area of effect, but that the Ineffable is more universal and effective in the hearts or souls of people. It was a long development, something you can see by the spiritual growth in the Bible. Today, we look back on further developments that were often stifled by power because Religion has always been useful for politics, which Constantine obviously recognised.
Further developments have been observed with regard to the figure of the Messiah, having been discovered by psychologists. There are people in Israel said to be affected by a certain characteristic complex, namely the “Messiah complexâ€, which is a phenomena, or a psychological wish residing within the person and which may not manifest in him consciously, but nevertheless it affects him and through its effect he often behaves unaware of the true inner reason.
If the “Messiah complex†is the will, intention, or even compulsion to be a messiah, to be a redeemer and saviour, this may be the development towards a “collective Messiahâ€. That means that the Messiah is less one mighty leader, but collectively those people who, acting as one, realise the biblical promise. What of course is important, is which vision will these people follow - the militant or the spiritual?
The problem with apocalyptic prophecies is that, despite numerous declarations that the time has come, what did come never had the dimensions imagined. It is clear that Revelations and other apocalyptic writings have been used as propaganda. They continue to be used as propaganda, because the fear of Armageddon makes more profit than the hope of Salvation.
Now, the positive alternative to such propaganda could be the call to faith in the promises the OT. This is what Jesus was doing, telling people to put their faith in the promise of God, acting on the word, finding their spiritual centre, and discovering the potential that lies slumbering, cut off from the source of inspiration that could activate it. This is dangerous of course, there never was any doubt. But the movement that was initialised by the Gospels, inspiring people to communities of neighbourly love, changed the world – even if it wasn’t perfect.
All forms of social assistance in Europe were inspired by the Gospels, even other religious movement were inspired to pull out their social teachings because of the effect the social Gospel was having. It even called those critical to such Piety to make their own pseudo-religion and socialism and communism are examples of that. The last century of conflicts have, however, been the counter measures of those in power, to prevent any such developments holding for any considerable amount of time.
Those in power will only tolerate a movement of benevolent laymen. Anything that questions their status is eradicated and religious movements are often used to spread the fear of “Evil†or the “Antichrist†- which is motivation enough to allow militarisation and military intervention. This all sounds very new, but the fact that the symbolism of Revelations is used by both sides shows that the subject is in fact very old. After Hiroshima and Nagasaki the apocalypse seemed to something that could be literally realised, but most of those in power realised that they couldn’t win such a conflict. That is why the run down has allowed more “manageable†conflicts and Armageddon is a place in the middle east again.
Quite my point. But the Sword of Damocles is useful for the purposes I have mentioned. I think we have to accept that Christianity is infiltrated, and has been for centuries. Fortunately, Scripture may be manipulated by exegesis, but in the end, there are enough people who know what the real message is. It is merely important to get that message out.
A squirzel is anything that can’t be proven through reasonable means.
call me skeptical… but I think he may be reading to far between the lines.
wrong. Paul on several occasions wrote that “many of you will be alive when christ comes to judge”.
your not getting what I’m saying… the end of the world is a personal event.
I’m not a relativist, nor a universalist and don’t believe that there is truth in everything.
I do believe there are lessons to be learned from all the varying sources of folklore, but folklore is rarely true.
bob, I’ll have to answer your post later. Some good information in there, except I think even moderate christians are in some way looking forward to christ’s return.
Possibly, but how else would he speak and write as such? And you are quite the skeptic, but that isnt always a bad thing.
I believe your interpretation is incorrect. When Jesus and Paul say many will still be alive, I think its an explanation as to how many who are there will still be consciously existing in the world, but not necessarily in the same body. Or it could be referring to those who have realized everlasting life, and therefore will still be alive. The scriptures also say that the dead will be raised from the dead, the mortal made immortal. Rereading from this perspective, I believe Paul and Jesus are referring to those who will be saved. In a sense, everyone will be alive when this it happens, but only many will be alive after. Im not for sure, but its just a few different interpretations than what you have seemingly accepted. Id have to say thats a difficult verse to interpret and understand.
Everything is a personal event. I understand what your saying, but Im saying that I believe this event will occur on a massive level, happening to many.
So you believe there is no truth then? For any truth to exist, it must exist in all.
