Ive got a few “debates” i guess…
Mormon and Islam so far, people i know,
chats and tons of questions:

Answer me if you can.

[Ryan the Mormon tries to reply]

Ryan says:
whats up
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Well, not too much…
Ryan says:
…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
um…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Naty was sort of feeling bad about somthing
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
If God was true, how could he create the un-true
or if he is perfect how could he create the imperfet
Ryan says:
“un-true”?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
If God was sinless how could he create the sinful?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
^that was her sort of argument…
Ryan says:
Hm…
Ryan says:
Well, when you create a child its not gonna be just like you
Ryan says:
“perfect”
Ryan says:
you have to raise it,
just like God is with us.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
hmm
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
ill check her chat again
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
“and if God is the only truth why would he make something other
than himself and expect it to be truthful?”
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
how is God “raising” us? People teach eachother and raise
eachother, but God?..
Ryan says:
He gives us knowledge through prophets.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Why only send a few prophets if he is so powerful and wise?
Just a few old dead prophets is all we got to work with here?
Ryan says:
There are many prophets.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Why would God always use human messengers and representatives instead of representing himself and finaly straitening out all of the false religious noise?..
Ryan says:
Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, and on and on
(there were many in between the ones i listed)
Ryan says:
“Why would God always use human messengers and representatives instead of representing himself and finaly straitening out all of the false religious noise?..”
Ryan says:
because that will defeat the purpose of why we are here to act on faith not knowledge
Ryan says:
…sorta
Ryan says:
God has visited people.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Faith is a poor substitude for knowlage.
Infact, faith is crap compared to solid facts!
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Faith is merely trusting opinion of the one who told you to have faith
Ryan says:
Gen. 32: 30
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Ryan says:
I deisagree about what you said about faith
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
well then?
Ryan says:
Acts 6: 8
8 And Stephen, full of faith and apower, did great wonders and bmiracles among the people.

you can’t do or recieve miracles without faith
Ryan says:
2 Ne. 27: 23
23 For behold, I am God; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith.

Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
You do know that if God revieled himself to everyone and tought them all about your christianity and healed them of sicknesses and stuff, over 90% would listen and change! Thatd be alot more then what currently is able to be done by your human religion, humans can only do so much.
Ryan says:
but remember, nothin impure can dwell in His midst,
many couldn’t survive if He appeared to mankind,
but Jesus Christ will come.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
why? would he kill them instead of helping them learn
how to be more moraly right?..
Ryan says:
e wouldn’t kill them
Ryan says:
they couldn’t be able to withstand his presence
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
yah right, God was able to talk to Adam and Eve, and they didnt die, God isnt a dummy is he? He doesnt have to use up so much power revealing himself that it kills a person, he could just use a practical and moderate portion of power to display images and messages and words, right?
Ryan says:
I’m talking about impure people,
unrighteous.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Hey man, lets say your realy rightious, and then you talk to an
impure person, does that person die?..
Ryan says:
haha…there is more than a righteous me, and God…
He has a glorified celestial, resurrected body.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
“glorafied” means like holy radiation that kills stuff? Like the shit in your intestinal track would desolve because of how un-holy it was if you were near God?
Ryan says:
Ps. 68: 2
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

Listen i don’t know physical details, but i believe that if you are not pure you cannot endure the presence of God

Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
well i guess if evil was an intrigal part of your existance youd die if it was removed?..
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
not many people are EVER like that
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
they dont need evil inside of themself
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
they can life without
Ryan says:
2 Ne. 2: 8
8 Wherefore, … there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
why would he create it in the first place if it cannot dwell in his presance? Like, if he created it… wouldnt it just blow up at the same time because he was so holy and it was so crappy?
Ryan says:
…Dan, I think this boils down to the question “What Is it that God has planned for all of us?”

God has “constructed” a plan for us. And one crusial step in this is “The Fall” of man. I think that you don’t understand the importants and neccesity the Fall is. I think that you think that the Fall was an accident and wasn’t supposed to happen - It was supposed to happen.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
human population is still going up, medical science did more then jesus did, didnt it? Is humanity that useless and that evil? or is it just judged by the fearful ancients?
Ryan says:
“medical science did more then jesus did, didnt it?” ?! What do you mean?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
healing n stuff
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
medical science healed more people then Jesus
Ryan says:
physical healing sure… but none other that my and your Savior can heal your soul and atone for your sins, thats more important to me than my physical problems. But, Jesus suffured for physical infirmities as well.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
why did arc angels have swords instead of machine guns or sniper rifles? Is there metal in heaven? the anti-physical.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
why didnt God teach people about the printing press yet commanded so much preaching?
Ryan says:
do you have an answer to that?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Why did God make angels all male with sexual capasity yet no female existant, and then give them natural sexual desire, so that they wanted to and some did materialize and mary women before the flood?
Ryan says:
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is acompelled in all things, the same is a bslothful• and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

27 Verily I say, men should be aanxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

Ryan says:
God did not make all angels male
Ryan says:
(those two verses answers your Q about the printing press. He wants us to think and come up with stuff. however i’m sure that God is in the minds to a degree in sparking their creativity)
Ryan says:
(swords are made of metal)
Ryan says:
(there are surely metal(s) in heaven)
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
“He wants us to think and come up with stuff” does he want us to make up things about him?..
Ryan says:
thats not what i meant
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
yah…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
So proove to me that there were chicks in heaven to, i never heard EVER about a ladie angel in the bible.
Ryan says:
i meant, anxiously engaged in being creative, invention, etc
Ryan says:
k
Ryan says:
God is our Father in Heaven, do you beleive that?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
would your dad literaly kill you if you didnt do what he said?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
what is “father”
Ryan says:
just telll me a yes or no, Do you believe that God the Father in Heaven is your actually father of your spirit? yes or no?
Ryan says:
I believe He is.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
I believe that God is the one who knows what is best and who created all life, but he is off-line right now and that realy sucks! id vote for him any day
Ryan says:
is that a yes or no?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
yes hes our “father” sure
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
but treats us way difforent then a real physical dad
Ryan says:
He has children beyond measure (however accumulative) and there a male chidlren and there are female children. And angles that are in the bible are either a spirit child of God that has not come to earth to get a body yet, or a ressurrected being which is His child aswell.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
weres your proof?
Ryan says:
you
Ryan says:
you believe He is our spiritual father
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Back in the olden days they blamed God for what they thought could only be done by God. The combination of physical material, the genetics, the sex, this creates humans, and is not to do with spirit in heaven but random combinations of physical matter.
Ryan says:
things are created spiritually before it is created physically. God created man is His image.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
are there angelic dogs and cats in heaven to?
Ryan says:
hmm… i donno
Ryan says:
perhaps
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
lol
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
why?
Ryan says:
well God created everythng
Ryan says:
the heavens the earth(s)
Ryan says:
and everything in it
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Talking about passed lives and spirit forms before earth sounds rather like a nostalgic, spirit-wanna-be to be to me.
Ryan says:
well…do you mean are you asking if there are angelic cats and/or dogs awaiting to come to earth to get a body? or are you saying angelic cats blah blah that have died already?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Why can remember our self in heaven and our passed life there?
Ryan says:
thats called the “veil”
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
both, i was saying both
Ryan says:
k
Ryan says:
it is called the “veil” - its is basically a thing that blocks our mind of our “premortal life” and from seeing things beyond the physical. However, the veil can be removed from someone in one degree or another if God so desires it.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Our needs are the root of our feelings, thoughts and actions. If in heaven you had no needs, you would not act or feel or thing much of anything realy. Now then, just because humans can imagine God, doesnt mean he is there or happening. People have the ability to fantasize about things and feel for them. Masturbation is a perfect example of a non-reality in the mind causing strong action/feelin
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
What do we have other then our faith?
Ryan says:
revelation from prophets
Ryan says:
but that requires faith to beleive it or not
Ryan says:
that exactly how important faith is to us
Ryan says:
Faith is crucial to our progression
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
why would God give us a “veil” in the first place if he wants us to know the truth about him!? surely pure memories of heaven and God would rander atheism non-existant.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Strong faith easily becomes insanity, ive been there and had to realize.
Ryan says:
“Strong faith easily becomes insanity, ive been there and had to realize.”

can you elaborate
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
sure, you believe somthing so much that your willing to die for it
Ryan says:
“why would God give us a “veil” in the first place if he wants us to know the truth about him!? surely pure memories of heaven and God would rander atheism non-existant.”

because God is “testing” us. He has done this to provide a way for us to choose the right without any bias. We have to live ours lives and proove ourselves worthy of exaltation.
Ryan says:
Dan, are you willing to die for God?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Nope
Ryan says:
But Dan, more importantly, are you willing to live for God?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
yes
Ryan says:
live righteously, and obey his commandments, etc…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
“testing” us? At school did they send you the grade 7 test after grade 3 studies? If someone wants us to believe somthing they need to proove it. the whole test/faith argument is an irelavant factor to moral quality of the individual, but is a huge factor to obediance, obediance to claims that dont have much proof.
Ryan says:
Dan, i don’t think you understand. You’re always asking for “proof.” I can’t proove to you to a lot of things. But i tell you, once you feel the testimony of the Holy Ghost ministering truth to you, thats undeniable. The sensation is beyond your control. And it would be very difficult to deny something like that. The Holy Ghost testifies of all truth (absolute truth)
Ryan says:
no matter if there is “proof”
Ryan says:
The Holy Ghost is proof!
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
How do we make the right desitions in life?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
What do we need before we can make these?
Ryan says:
“What do we need before we can make these?”

reword that one
Ryan says:
i don’t get that on
Ryan says:
*one
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
In life, when we think and make choices, what do we need before we can make the right or best choice?
Ryan says:
you need to have faith, and pray for the Holy Ghost to tell you what to do.

In a different, yet similar method ( in reguards to big disicions - little disicions are easy, you know whats right ans whats wrong with little stuff).

Ryan says:
sorry…
Ryan says:
lemme cont.
Ryan says:
You ponder about the situation…
Ryan says:
(big dicisions)
Ryan says:
and then you try and deside what you think is best…
Ryan says:
and then you pray to God of this dicision you’ve made…
Ryan says:
…and ask Him if you’re right
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
but before we can make a disition at all be need options, which are facts and understanding
Ryan says:
ok… go on…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
well, we base our choice on our values
Ryan says:
our “consience”
Ryan says:
as well
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
You obviously base it on God, which is quite nice of a thought, and you also think that God does not want you to hurt yourself or others or be selfish.
Ryan says:
ok…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
I pray before big confusion desitions to…
Ryan says:
ok…
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
im not religious realy, but surely am open to any sort of way of bettering who i am, and i do pray alot for “the Holy Ghost” (God’s will or active force)
Ryan says:
ok…
Ryan says:
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a astupor• of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong…
Ryan says:
theres a scripture about dicisions
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
So, God causes us or helps us or is in support of us making good choices?
Ryan says:
yes… remember He wants us to get better, haha.

Ryan just sent you a Nudge!

Ryan says:
whoops
Ryan says:
haha, ddin’t konw what that botton did
Ryan says:
haha
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
That does not fit into us, that principal here, because we can only want to do whats right if we know it, and why would he not make it inherent for us to understand the bible? Animals can be born with alot of instinct, and why not give us a natural christian instinct?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Also some countries were absolutely un-toutched by christianity for a long time
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Why would “God” only effect a limited amount of people?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
If he wanted everyone to know him and do whats right?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
and you still never prooved to me from the bible that we had passed lives in heaven.
Ryan says:
ok, about the first Q… are you refering kinda to our “conscience”?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
no im refering to what created the conscience in the first place, which is knowlage
Ryan says:
well, thats where you and i disagree
Ryan says:
there are many influences that come from God. One of the most powerful is The Gift of The Holy Ghost, then the Power of The Holy Ghost, and then The light of Christ

The Light of Christ is basically our “instict” of whats right and whats wrong. When we do somthing wrong, we feel guilty, due to the Light of Christ.
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
“due to the Light of Christ” rubbish. Its all based on the reactions of organic life around us and how it effects us.
Ryan says:
ok, again, thats where you and i disagree
Ryan says:
we have different beliefs
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
what i siad is true you know
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
You wouldnt be able to think anything about jesus if no one ever told you about him
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
experiance in life makes the contience’
Ryan says:
Well what about Adam, he didn’t know about Jesus
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
what does he have to do with anything?..
Ryan says:
until an Angel sent from God told him the significants of the burnt offerings, they are similitude of Christ
Ryan says:
God reveals things Dan, he reveals things that no learned man can come up with
Ryan says:
(on his own)
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
lol
Ryan says:
That true
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
hopefuly
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
its a sad shame that he didnt do this in so many countries Ryan
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
you know how dead christianity was before CE
Ryan says:
all in good time
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
“good time”
Ryan says:
CE?
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
Christ’s era = CE, BCE =before jesus came
Ryan says:
listen i gotta get some dinner. and i got extened family in town form xmas. I gotta go.
Ryan says:
Moses was a “christian”
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
“all in good time” sounds like a very passive aproach at a supposed all might God / life saveing work that only happened after thosands of years, and to one nation…
Ryan says:
The Church of Jesus Christ is sending missionaries all over the world
Ryan says:
listen, i’d love to talk more
Ryan says:
i g2g
Ryan says:
later
Hidden(dan)love and justice are one says:
cya

[Dan chat with Intisar from Pakista, of Islam faith:]

Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Did you read my e-mail?
intisar rizwan says:
Hello, No I havent checked my email yet. Give me a moment I check it first
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
thanks
intisar rizwan says:
Yes I have read it now.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Im tierd of religion in many ways. i want to live a humble and productive life and pray to my creator for guidance, but no more religion…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Even though i read about many, im not reading to join the,
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
them*
intisar rizwan says:
Then why you make the effort to know about various religions.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
i just want the pure truth…
intisar rizwan says:
If you are not willing to join them what good that will do/
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
i dont know…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
but i often learn, i like to read.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
C.S. Lewis once commented,

There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.

Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
it is so true^…
intisar rizwan says:
No it is not
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
well what is true?
intisar rizwan says:
By my telling you will not help it is something for which you have to strive. There come times in life when you become totally hopeless and then you get a ray of light in the sole darkness but we humans dont realize it is that it was the help from God and not luck as we say in many cases we ignore him yet He is merciful. A simple example is
intisar rizwan says:
A child when hungry what he does
intisar rizwan says:
he cries and ask for her mother to feed her
intisar rizwan says:
similarly a man in the hour of need calls for his loved ones to help him
intisar rizwan says:
but what he doesnot realize is that they are simple humans like him and can do nothing except watch
intisar rizwan says:
it is only God that can help us and
intisar rizwan says:
we are unfaithful that when danger passes we left God and come back to our own old ways
intisar rizwan says:
we forget Him His help
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
If he can do all of this… then why cant he also talk?..
intisar rizwan says:
And in this manner we project a character that is even lower then a dog.
intisar rizwan says:
He can
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Why wont he tell us each here and now that he is real, if he is so active on earth?
intisar rizwan says:
He does, and what you are forgetting is that this world is like an examination hall
intisar rizwan says:
where we only do His bidding
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Id prefer strait facts, strait english…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
From Go
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
God
intisar rizwan says:
Why
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Belief itself is not enough…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Many many people of all religions firmly believe in their religion,
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
but God does not step forward and speek, it is always men speeking.
intisar rizwan says:
if he comes out then the whole purpose of life is meaningless
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
hahahaha!
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
BAHAHAH
intisar rizwan says:
why you smile
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Thi claims stupidity as a gift, and lackings a blessing, and thi dies smiling for the lie that he did love…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
There is no truth
intisar rizwan says:
there is if humans does not close their eyes in the face of truth
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Is truth a dream or a fact?
intisar rizwan says:
A fact
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Why…
intisar rizwan says:
Fact is something that can not be proved to be false whereas a dream might be false and true it depends
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Well then, how do we proove somthing a fact?
intisar rizwan says:
2+2=4
intisar rizwan says:
do we need to prove it
intisar rizwan says:
in maths we treat it as a fact
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
addition… an adding up of factual support.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
How many religions are scientificly sound?
intisar rizwan says:
More than one it again depends
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
…ok, if i believe in what a man tells me, and what a book sais, and think like you and act like you, then im gunnu get resurected and God will save me?
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Or is it that we must dream our way out of our animal bodies because we are sick of the system of life and death and giving and taking and pleasure and pain…?
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
A child’s life is full of dreams and wonder, and once they wake up, do they miss it? Do i miss my religious dreams of God and actual solutions on earth?
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Are we realy that sain to claim so much?..
intisar rizwan says:
that shows depression and I wonder why is that
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Depression, or bitter truth that many could not bare to swallow?..
intisar rizwan says:
I would like to know what are you worried about
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Worried? Worried that there are so many lies on earth and that God is not a sain one… he has been here for all time and has lost his mind…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
What does any religion have other then mere words?
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Words are not enough…
intisar rizwan says:
Religion does not contain only words
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
God, if you are real, do somthing real, God, i beg you, and then silance and nothing…
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
If i do ever obtain a revelation i will write it down and analize it carefuly
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
and the ones id already received i do not share with thee, and i analize them carefuly…
intisar rizwan says:
And you consider yourself worthy of it
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Worthy?..
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Who is the judge of worthy?
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
We each deserve mercy, solutions, respect, life
intisar rizwan says:
Your consiousness
intisar rizwan says:
I with held a certain information about sin from you let me tell you
intisar rizwan says:
Sin is something that you wont like other peoples to know about and your consiousness stops you from comitting such a thing
intisar rizwan says:
it is your consiousness that helps you understand life and its reality
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
This is because of fear of other’s, it is learned and depends on the people around you and your own values.
intisar rizwan says:
no
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
yes
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
im true
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
a persons veiw of right and wrong is because of what they learn and think
intisar rizwan says:
think
intisar rizwan says:
focus on it
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
on what?
intisar rizwan says:
what is your consiousness
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
a collective super-structure of memory date built for the sake of my own life and health. this super-structure is easily capable of rationalization, paranoya, superstition, and escapeism. Religions obviously are also capable of these.
intisar rizwan says:
no
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
All of the stimuli taken into the memory banks of men is their resource of desition, and then they try to make the right choice based on what they have felt, known, or have been told.
intisar rizwan says:
you want to understand revelation . is it
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
?..
intisar rizwan says:
what revelation is
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
You want my word of revelation about life?
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
You want to know what i thought?
intisar rizwan says:
no what a revelation is
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
revelation is a truth revealed to thee.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
i will just say part of it here and now,
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
From the mice and the birds all the way up to men and women, each has a meaning and a goal. They grow, they consume, they reproduce, and this is the simple meaning of all life.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
The “sin” is when you hurt those around you or yourself, and also the “sin” is when you worship men or angels or demons.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
The worship of the creator is a peaceful and productive life as you pray for guidance.
intisar rizwan says:
I will explain revelation importance in an email and rest of it as well I thinl it must be given its due explanation
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Ok then, you e-mail me that then! id like to hear it.
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
Thanks for your time also Intizar, i hope all is still well in your life.
intisar rizwan says:
It is no problem
Hidden(dan)the1whoLuvzU4ever says:
k

God reveals Himself all the time, and speaks to all of us all the time. You just have to be open to hearing him, and that sometimes requires faith.

Interesting conversations. Thank you for sharing them with us.

What if God told me that it is harder to understand/comprehend the creator then it is to understand/comprehend all of his creation put togeather?

What if God told me to focus on my own species and be a good citizen instead of joining a religios cult?

What if God told me that religions are all failures because they want to do the impossable, as if humans were ever able to “know” God?

What if God told me that all religions were cults and spiritisms?

So then, if “God” knows all details and truth of all creation, and if what we do or create is always an extention of ourself, we can only “know” “God” once we fully “know” all the rest of the facts about the universe.

Why would anyone claim that “God” was like this big man with white cloths up behind the clouds? This is surely an act of arrogance, because they claim that a supriem being looks like and acts like an exagerated humanoid ruler who is judgemental and dominating. As you may know, many religions are just based on theories, lies and demonism.

@ aviemus
You’r welcome, my freind.
Complimenting other’s works causes them to grow inside,
but insulting them sparks shame and hurt.

Have a great day freinds!

Dan~ wrote:

Your absolutely correct in saying we must know whats in front of us before we can know God, but what’s in front of us is also a part of God. Religions depictions of God are a result of the personification of something that cant fully be explained, as you have noted. Religion is for those who need help in getting close to God. Personifying Him makes Him seem closer to you. You can more so “identify” with Him. Most people become atheist because these ideas of God are false, and He isnt what the scriptures oftentimes suggest. I also realized this, but was enlightened to a more plausible definition of God, which somewhat coincides with these religions, but without the basis of superficial features which are of course only common to man. But what we have to realize is that man is a part of God, so is everything around us. So when we are understanding ourselves, and those things around us, we are also understanding parts of God. But there is also much of God we do not perceive within our environment, and for that we must strengthen our relationship with Him in order to understand. As humans it is difficult to know God fully, but we can know more and more of Him. I mean thats the point isnt it? Religion allows people to get started in this process. You were once in a religion, correct?

But as I said earlier, your right, a general understanding of whats in front of us is required before you can move further. There may be some parts that you dont understand that God is now allowing you to focus in on. But it appears from your post and conversation that there is much you have learned, especially when it comes to human activity and learning from it. I dont think that because religion may not be for you at this time, you should go completely against it. You should keep an open mind, and accept all things, for all things are of God. In doing this, He will show you where your focus should be, as He is doing now; but once you shut out something, and shut others from it as well, it could be hurting you, but more importantly them. Then on the other hand, your words could very well push those who are close to the level you are on away from religion, and into a more inclusive view of God. Everything that happens, happens for a reason, I just want you to try and realize how all things play into the bigger scheme of things, including our faulty religions.

Religions arent based on lies, their based on truth. Then the truth gets watered down into what appears as lies, because truth cant be explained in words simply. This is why Jesus spoke in parables, this is why mystics speak in paradox and negation. Its simply a veil provided through the limits of our experience and language; grow with God and He will lift all the veils, including the religious ones so you can see the truth in them all.

Having a laymans study of anthropolgy and archeology I have learned that wine, beer and pipes, that were used for smoking, had some interesting traces in them. Way back in the biblical times. I really don’t ever see this part of religous disscussion brought up. The apostles, priests, etc. were probably stoned. Traces from containers used in ancient churches or what ever they were called back then were of the THC variety and other mind expanding natural plant traces. Can’t quote the documents nor the documentaries but, they were quite reputable, National Geographic comes to mind as one source. What were the chances of someone being stoned or ripped as they wrote down something that God told them? Pretty darn good. Remember drugs were not illegal and were freely used back then. What you folks think?

False enlightenment
Shuts of
Part of the mind
And then the rest of the mind
Looks wiser

Why does being intoxicated feel “good”?
(* snorts crack *)
Oh man! Look! Its Jesus!.. Wait, i need to go to rehab.
(j/k)

Thanx 4 reply anyways, Kriswest.

“Everything happens for a reason” is a form of posative rationalization similar to “luck” theories (in that each is untrue), with an exageration of fact, that aims to increase the practical use and the learning from/because of life and it’s experiances.
No shit.

You made mastakes because of your weaknesses, and then learned from them and became stronger, but did God cause your learning and cause your problem? We cannot say that God is a manotonious twit who wants us to live through things instead of being tought about them, can we? The word “perminent damage” and “un-nessisary” and “bullshit” all come to mind when i see manotonious claims about “God’s” ways.
Sorry.

Besides my view, your view helps you learn at an excelorated pace about all things. Practicality is above and beyond the ideal “right” and “wrong”, and is even above and beyond real-facts/sanity. You’r way of thinking works for you, but i must seek the pure and simple truth. It is my way.

Thanx 4 replies all~[/b]

Seriously, has not the thought or the possibilty of some religous artifacts being written while the writer is drinking laced wine or beer or perhaps smoking a relaxing pipe laced, crossed anyones mind? drinking and drugs were not illegal nor immoral then. Jesus prescribed moderation only, not abstinence. Religous ceremonies from different religions have at times the use of intoxicating drinks or smokes. It had to start somewhere.
Sure it may offend people today but, why? that was the culture then, that was how things were done then. Is it offensive to think that perhaps religious leaders were imbibing of proscribed drugs of today.
Are people afraid that it may change their own beliefs? I don’t see how. It just adds more understanding of religion. If someone heard God’s voice while ripped, then so be it.

Dan~ wrote:

Its just a different way of explaining things, you’ll come back.

It all depends on the religion and era.
Buddha wasnt three sheets to the wind, he was meditating and seeking enlightenment. Bible writers wouldnt have been able to write very well if they were stoned. Just look at people like PoR, even here, he cliams he has so much holy spirit and its inspiring him to write, but then hes just writing his own views anyways.

It doesnt matter if its offensive, all that matters is if its true or not.
Lots of religious leaders are wack, and sure, some of the ancient “holy-men” were just sckitzo.

If you attempt to explain the in-explainable, you will fail.
There is no real substitute for a full understanding.
Im not going to “come back” to anything except the pure and bitter truth of reality. Also i wanna talk with you again on msn sometime Dan missez u.

You honestly don’t believe that people are capable of writing well when they are drunk or high? LOL That about hurt my ribs. I am sure there are folks here that are more capable of gathering facts together to refute that thought then I am capable of doing, one name pops into mind Hemingway. That is just one. Perhaps Buddha was not 3 sheets to the wind but you can’t prove he wasn’t either. Incense and candles can be made from different things, that when lit the smoke can be quite effective, I respect the buddhist religion greatly for different reasons the top reason is they won’t kill others because their God told them too. I don’t think the war cry “For Buddha” has ever really been heard.
I am not insulting these folks I am saying that it was acceptable then to imbibe in moderation, their wine or beer would probably knock a modern persons socks off. Religous leaders had often more access to these items or were given them as gifts. Perhaps these leaders may have heard their God better with an open mind then one that was grounded.

Dan~ wrote:

Your so right. But you can get some understanding, and that allows for further and deeper understanding.

Much has changed, growth is inevitable. I will definetely get on MSN.

Kartik wrote to me from India:

And my reply to him:

How would YOU reply to me or Kartik!?

Obviously Dan is searching for answers.

I see your dilemna as twofold:

1. You seek the countenance of other fallible beings for your understanding. This compounds confusion, in my opinion.

2. You are looking, in typical human fashion, without yourself, when within is where the “answers”, “knowledge”, “facts”, or “truths” actually have domain.

As soon as I don’t care, I have peace.
As soon as I rationalize, It all makes sense.
As soon as I stimulate myself with what I like, I’m happey.

But what happens when I ask a question instead of all of these three things listed above? Gimmicks and mundane opinions are so wide spread… so massive… within so many people. And then i don’t want to be rude and “attack” their sythetic comfort zone… But maybe someday I will either stop talking to them, or… stop talking to them. One or the other. =)

Oh, let me also say:

The thrill of judgment:
One of “advanced intelligence” can look down upon a simple one. He can feel as if he was able to out wit the other. Perhaps he knew that he could out wit the other. I ask him this:
How often do you outwit your own DNA? And what did he gain when he outwitted the simple one? He gained this: “I am greater then one who I already knew I was greater then. I proved it because I did not trust truth.”. And this is the unnecessary thrill of judgment.
The stupidest men say: “I am the wisest”. The wisest men say: “I am nothing and wish to somehow, in even a small way, become more for the sake of the future and life itself.”.
When you say “I have won”, more often then not, you have already lost very much, because you had to play the game in order to win. You were subject to and were within it, instead of being above and beyond it. The greater question is: For what sake would you rather feel nothing at all?

?

Dan~ wrote:

If nothing we have on earth is not enough, then what is? What satisfies the need? There must be something to fill the void. I’ve had religion for the better part of my life. Around 18, I rejected it, just as you seemed to have. After 3 and a half years of truth seekings, I realize there is truth in it, and I have personally decided to follow my foundation in religion. Not because I am limiting myself, but because I realize belief is what our lives are made out of, I want to believe in God, because I knew personally He is real to me. I dont consider myself Christian, but a member of all religions. I will bow to Buddha just as I will bow to Christ. Same archetypical representations of a real God. But you must find this for yourself.

The root of this premise is of faith.
You think that what you believe in can save you.
Believing in God wont change wither he exists or not.
Forsight is the pain, positivity/faith/ignorance is the pain killer.
I will choose to not think about my many unchangable dooms, instead of comforting them with… I God… I can’t do it! I can’t! Absolute realism is just too hard on my soul! I can’t!..
Rrrrr…

Screw it! I’m still gunnu look for some real answers.
I’ll go to a physics form now and ask some questions…
About a few things…

Dan~ wrote:

Its obvious to me that it appears your looking for something to believe in. Your search will take you to the right place. Definetely go to the physics forum, I believe it will help you tremendously. Quantum physics has shown that wave forms collapse to a particle in what seems to be a random way. But this is because the physicist arent sure what to expect. What they have tapped into is the fact that when the wave form is observed, it collaspes into a particle. But since they arent having an intent as to where it will collapse, it appears random. Intent based research has been conducted using water and random number generators. You should look this stuff up, I will give you the proper names of the people who performed the experiments. I will mention the water experiments first.

The guy basically took bottles of water, tore off the labels, and labeled them himself. One he labeled something like I love you, or some shit like that. Another was labeled, I hate you, and I want you to die. After freezing the water crystals from the different bottles, the water crystals took on different shapes. The I hate you labeled water took on a very ugly looking shape of crystals, while the I love you water was very pleasing to the eye.

Also, individuals use random number generators in the research of intent. They were told to try and make either more 1’s pop up or either more 0’s. In every case, when the 1’s were the intent to pop up, it was like over 1000 to 1 odds that the 1’s occured. Same with the zeros, implying that the intent had something to do with it. When there is no intent involved, the random number generators produce 50/50 results. Belief is stronger than thought! Ill definetely get you the logistics on this stuff.