so this is more for the atheists… if a god or gods existed would you worship him/her/them?
to me if god(s) existed it wouldnt be metaphysical so in a sense it wouldnt be a religious entity. so would you worship it?
of course not. Power is not an endearing quality, especially when it is abused (“acts of god” are not pleasant). So what if he created me, doesnt that mean he should take some responsibility?
what does it mean to worship??? To me it means respect. To christians it’s this respect rewarded with the Holy Spirit further perpetuating this respect.
As to how to know God? It’s purely psychological. For God speaks dirrectly to the soul,… and ses us spiritually over mentally,… and even perclaims spiritual healing as Gods greatest gift. For if God created the universe, then God’s energy is independent of the universe,… or above it in some sort of hier-archey.
Space and time are but a side effect of matter. So if matter was created,… this creation had the equal and opposite side effect of space and time thus explaing why space and time are variables controled by matter. Also explaining why people see God as they do. For God then exsists outside of space and time allowing God to be everywhere,… and knowing all things of space and time as a mere thought. And maybe even controlling space and time with mere thought.
Even ghosts are limited to space and time. Yet God would have to exsist outside of it.
If a God existed why would someone worship it? I mean really, why should anyone worship anything? People worship Kings but that was usually out of fear for what would happen if they didn’t worship them, so that’s not really worshipping, that’s just showmanship.
Does anything exist that is actually worth worshipping?
(Not including [Insert name of favorite singer/actress/sexgodess here]'s [Insert medically incorrect name for piece of anatomy or innapproprate euphamism here] of course)
Hi Mentat,
You make a good observation at the end of your post about the worship of singers, actors, etc. But can you really make a distinction between worshipping those things and worshipping a God that exists?
Worship, after all, is not something that happens. Rather it is somethings that is done. You spend your time on ILP, to some extent, it could be said that you worship ILP (whether it be the chance to express yourself, or the responses you get, or the people you interact with).
There is a difference between appreciation and submitting to authority.
I wouldnt do what ILP or a singer tells me to do.
if god existed in the state of the universe today (where his existence is not obvious), i think it’s a clear case that he doesn’t want us to spend our lives in “worship” and “awe” of his work… if he did, then his existence would be known, and he would demand us to be more pious.
Cba,
What type of god exists in your model? the one that shows off, and let’s his existence be known?
Or the quiet god who hides in the corner of infinity?
I wouldn’t worship it. I would want to be its friend and learn from “it”.
"The prayer: ‘Oh, Lord, I want God to make my self-portrait !!!’ "
Forgive me, I was defining worship as Paul did in Romans 12:1. If you’d like to make the distinction clearer, that would help me to understand greatly.
a quiet god. i think most people see that one.
i just think its strange that if you question a gods relationship to anything that people look at it differently. the question of faith is bizarrely fluid.
is it pompous for a god to demand worship? certain religions actually ask for that. i dont personally know. its certainly frowned upon.
if its materialized and personified (which most theists do to gods) then its easier to look at as an equal or atleast unworthy of worship and thus i would say no dont worship it.
if its more metaphysically unexplainable and irrational then id say its a toss up. you could condemn its irrationality or you could worship it and assume its irrational because of a purpose thats beyond your graps. but then we have conflicting views because occasionally you can view gods wrath as his intent and you want to survive and avoid pain. in that case its still questionable.
so personally i think worshipping god is questionable at best. maybe worthy of faith. im not sure really.
Um? You really dont see the distinction between appreciating the worth of something and submitting to the authority of it?
I guess by example:
Appreciation:
God is great, he made the universe which is really impressive.
I like ILP alot as it provides hours of ego stimulation.
Submission:
God is great, so I must obey him.
Ben said i should vote so I must.
I see your point, but I would say that by submitting to someone or something you are showing your appreciation for that person or thing.
For instance, I would not submit to someone i have no appreciation for. if God was not great, I would not be submissive towards him. If God was a mouse and he told me to obey him, I would be skeptical. If God was a man and he told me to obey him, I would consider it. If God was (as we we call him) God then I would have no choice but to obey him.
So they are different, as you said. But they’re also linked.
My point being that you worship many things: t.v. and music, etc. in varying levels of worship. A good measure of how much you are worshipping something is the time you spend doing or enjoying it. If I spend my day serving God, and obeying him, I’m not only worshipping him with my time, but I’m assigning him a greater worth than the other things around me that i could be worshipping.
What is appreciation, if not assigning worth?
Obviously, submission (of the worshipful variety) entails appreciation. But appreciation does not entail submission. I could appreciate God’s creativity and greatness, but that wouldnt mean I feel compelled to submit to his authority. As i said, indeed, i would reject it on the grounds that he is a bad parent.
Again, i am using tv, music and ILP for my own entertainment: im the one in control. In doing the works of God, i would be relinquishing my control and letting his will determine mine.
Just because you’re in control of what you’re do, such as the examples you gave, doesn’t mean your not worshipping those things. T.V., music, and ILP can be idols just as easily as a golden calf can be. Think about ancient Israel, no one was submitting to what Baal wanted them to do, they were doing what they wanted to do. And they wanted to worship a tangible god like the pagan nations around them. They were in control, how was their worship any less valid?
Good questions, I would our father would be highly pleased we are trying to figure out how to “worship” Him. we have to find out what “worship” is to him, His definition if you will.
how do you as a parent want your children to “worship” you?
If we are currently worshipping our possessions or money, what is it we do that makes the action “worship”? Is it putting those things above our Father, and caring more about them then Him? Like Judas did? 30 piecies of silver more important than our Creator and Father?
For our defense, I would like to say, we made a bad call based on the limited knowledge we possessed at the time. Like the apostle Paul did as well.
Again I say our Father does not need threats of punishment to convince us to listen to Him. Would He create something He could not control?
Any thoughts?