I was reading along in my Bible when I came to an enlightening little insert (well, a few things on it were) and I came a section labeled Our Deepest Yearnings. What it said made alot of sense and I present it to you now:
Name one that can’t, in an way, be fulfilled.
What do you guys think?
-Peter
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I agree. But not all people love life. And most fear the unknown of death.
I have a desire to know myself… but since I’m like a limit approaching the totality of my personality, this desire will never be achieved.
This is interesting… but I think it’s a little weak.
Careful with using logic based on poor assumptions. I might want to become a wolf . . . but that ain’t happenin’. Our desires do not shape our reality.
Is it really a desire for eternal life or a desire to become one with “meaning?”
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Tis the saddest game in life.
We want the all loving and all mighty to save us,
and yet look what we have.
every desire may rest upon something objective, but a desire may not be fulfilled perfectly, in all its details.
Besides, it seems that we have to make a distinction between physiological desires and psychological desires. The former can be satisfied: they are in accordance with nature. The latter go sometimes far beyond what nature can give us.
Yes, your species must out grow nature so that it can stop consuming/being-consumed by nature.
You’ve already made the amendment to the argument I was going to make this morning. All natural desires can be fulfilled. The question is, is our desire for eternal life innate, or did it start when rational thinking came into play? If it is the former than the whole idea could’ve been based off the fact that we, as humans, fear death and merely wanted a way to escape it. But, then again, for me, I don’t fear death because I’ve been promised an after-life…so whose to make the distinction between it being innate or natural.
-Peter
GOD DAMNIT PETER!!!
The internet is no place for Chrstians!
Once enough questions and scientific facts enter your mind it will kill your damned little faith and all of your idealism and your dreams and your hope AND YOUR MEANING OF LIFE!!!
Stop while you can.
Thank you for the warning, but I’ve managed to avoid it thus far. The only place that would be an issue for me is here and I’ve haven’t been turned faithless because of this place. As was entailed in the PM I just sent you, I’ve managed to work evolution into my religion with no ill effects.
Besides (and I hate to get this far off of topic) religion is really all about being a good person. The real mysticism only comes when you talk about an afterlife, hence, this thread. 
Peter
No!
“Being a good person” can be done by anyone, including an atheist, and “being a good person” is part of “morality” which is a code of action that has an origin and a perpose. Religion has its on moral codes but then the Christian thinks that religion and morality are somehow part of each other, when in fact, morality is a code that controls and guides all action, and its combination with a “God” who is the “Jugde”, and its combination with “salvation”, causes the Christian to view his “morality” [that controls thought and action] to be combined with fear of death, and the desire to live and have solutions and see the ones he loved again after they die.
^
Christianity is the world’s largest religion, and >37% or so of all people on earth are some sort of “Christian”, and there are over 1000 sub-groups of Christianity, each claiming to be absolutely right, And god doesn’t come down from heaven and answer the prayers of >2BILLION PEOPLE! to straiten out the MASSIVE miss-understandings within the bible, nor will he save a life, not even one, we all shall die.
GOD DAMNIT!
rant,rant,rant,rant,rant,rant.
Have you ever seen Bruce Almighty? God doesn’t answer all prayers because they all don’t fit with what we’ve chosen to be. It’s not going against free will, it’s just going against ourselves. You don’t know how many times I would pray for a girlfriend back in the 6th grade. They were never answered, but it would’ve probably impeded my later thoughts in that any relationship before (and even after, in some cases) college is inevitably going to end and therefore pointless. Now, I have had girlfriends for extended periods of time, but each time the only thing I’ve gained is…well…nothing.
And you’re right. Anyone can be a good person. I didn’t say that you had to be religious to be a good person. But, riddle me this. Atheists don’t believe in God. They have faith that God doens’t exist. Since it can’t be proven and is faith based, atheism is, in and of itself, a religion. So, really, even Atheists, in their own way, are religious. Regardless of that, morality doesn’t come with religion. Morality is simply individually rewarded through religion.
-Peter[/b]
I believe you are wrong, and I’m quite surprised of this coming from a Christian. You know, morality outside religion is but a gimmick to comfort atheists. Morality is so bonded to religion, because people respect one another only when they have a judge above them.Otherwise, morality is only a social contract, everyone breaks sooner or later.
Ethical codes outside religion have been put to use in alledged God-free societies, that is the Communist or the Nazi ones, with appaling results. Indeed, their morality was entirely separated from the sphere of the divine-and with what results…
Of course, a society obeying an atheistic morality doesn’t necessarily need to be tyrannical, but in the best case, it would fall apart in no-time, due to the fact that man, in its essence, is a deceitful being, much like the primates, and tries to swindle one another as soon as one has the chance to. But when the thrill of something transcending the boundaries of human understanding binds a community, then morality emerges…
Morality in and of itself is a gimmick. I may be a Catholic, and a devout one at that, but I’m still a realist. And just so you know, atheism is a religion. Anyhow, back to the main point of your argument. If morality is attached to religion why is it that so many of my friends, who aren’t religious at all, uphold the same moral standards as mine. It’s a little something called being a good person. Anyone is capable of doing it, it’s just a matter of whether or not you recognize the fact that there is a common law which we all live by. Whether that was an act of God or just an institution of man doesn’t matter. It’s still there.
Relgion didn’t create morality though, society did. When you have a group of people in one place you aren’t going to get anywheres if you are an immoral (or amoral) people. You’ll just continue to war and eventually kill eachother off. But, the great thing about being human is that we have the gift of reasoning and because of that our ancient ancestors were able to discover the fact that if you work together in a kind manner then things get done faster and more efficiently. You don’t even have to be human to figure that out.
Take a look at ants, for example. They all work together in their little hives. They have their own set of “moral rules”. They all live to serve the queen and the queen lives to give birth to more ants to serve the queen. Everyone does what they’re told and everyone is happy. You don’t see massive ant genocides, do you?
So, you see, morality is tied to religion, but by a very loose line, as morality comes more from societal needs more than anything else. And some of those “utopian communities” you were talking about could’ve worked if it weren’t for the fact that there always has to be evil in a society in order for there to be good…but that’s a different topic all together. That and some of them (See Shakers, who are still existant, but in the realm of about two members) didn’t believe in sex, so there members died of rather quickly, as one could deduce.
Well, that’s all I’ve got to say right now.
-Peter
Is the desire for another life innate? It arises as an side-effect of the functioning of the brain. It arises because the brain is able to conceive of a self and of the future. The brain did not evolve to fear death, but the fear of death was a logical, but secondary consequence of its new abilities. It happens when we experience the death of other people. It makes us wonder: But will it happen to ME, too?
So I would not put the fear of death into the same bag as thirst, hunger or sexual drive…
I agree with Sâm’s post.
OT: Peter, I see you’ve got Pascal’s Wager in your sig. If you’ve got a minute to spare, check this out. 