Where it is largely irrelevant when speaking of politics, sports, women etc., I do believe it is important in spiritual questions and concerns. You are mentioning the importance of attitude in speech which I believe is not just for the sake of others but more, I believe for ones own sake in striving towards the honesty necessary to increase understanding. It is an observation worth discussing
If we are talking about Bush, Superbowl, or the fine points of the female behind for example, how much does it matter? Mostly it is just letting off steam or trying to appear clever. You strike me though as one who wants to learn from the heart and appreciates its fragile nature. So what others do is one thing but what is our responsibility to either speech or the written word?
Take this question from the Buddhist perspective. It is the same in Christianity but since it has become fashionable to discount it, lets just stick with Buddhism.
Of course it gets in the way of honest discourse. Being that it has become so pervasive is one reason why the public spiritual discussions have become so trite. The attitudes are wrong for it.
So Jerry, I agree with you but all we can do is hold up our end because it has become fashionable for “exaggeration, sarcasm, group stereotypes, and pure silliness” to be the accepted order of the day. It saddens me because people largely do not realize what is lost in their own presence in pursuit of this “satisfaction” when dealing with the profound questions of life. The importance of humor has been sacrificed for the pleasure of the put-down and at the expense of understanding vital for the deeper questions of life… I’m glad you appear to realize it.
I think you are right to note the context of the conversation, whether it’s about sports, for example, or about something as important as some of the theo-philosophic threads that pop up here from time to time. There’s a difference between Mundane Babble and Religion, or between the Rant House and Philosophy. And frankly, I don’t mind a good put-down every now and again. I’m capable of giving as good as I get and have to admit that sometimes I enjoy the opportunity.
The dishonesty is what perplexes me. Those that take on other identities for example (Gamer must have had a hundred of them), or even take an opposite position, not because they believe it, but because they enjoy the “game.†Or worse, they simply want to disagree just to be disagreeable. This is, none of it, a game to me. Some of the issues that get discussed in Religion and Philosophy are deadly serious I think, and more so the more deeply I get into them.
But I have defended, and will continue to do so, the idea of people to post freely whatever it is they wish to say here. I just don’t understand a dishonest, disingenuous position is all.
The dishonest person usually ‘outs’ themselves over time. No small part of this issue is that many times, the person is first lying to themselves. There is no way for them to do anything but lie to you. They may have good intent, but they simply have no way to uncover themselves. The list of reasons why people play pretentious roles is pretty much endless, and is almost impossible to discern in this medium.
I agree that many of the threads have and deserve a serious and respectful tone. What and how I say something in mundane or rant is likely to be inappropriate in religion. The meaness thread attracted a lot of attention primarlily because most folks are aware of the differences. I agree with you that we must allow as much freedom as possible, but as our mommies taught us, there is a time and a place… The number of people who can take life seriously without falling into taking themselves seriously is and always has been exceedingly small. Knowing that you don’t know, and admitting that in public is even more rare. I can be frivolous and silly in rant or mundane and quite serious in religion - as long as it is remembered that the serious person in religion is also the buffoon in mundane.
Did you see my post that indicated that religious types are exactly the people that need to be dealt with in a silly manner because of the absolute conviction they have to their own insane focus?
Stop posting over the top of me! The dilemma, at least as I see it, is that the religion forum carries two general themes: the first is discussion of the various religions and attendant dogmas, etc. The second is more about the nature of our spirituality. The first is where you find most of the dyed-in-the-wool, ONE viewpoint people. The second has more of those looking for the questions with no hard and fast answers. The blending of the two creates some really interesting threads and is probably the reason Bob will undoubtably end up with ulcers. Yes, the my-way-or-the-highway people certainly could use a wake up call, but consider: Those who are capable of seeing the destructive rigidity already know, and the merely religious wouldn’t see the humor. They would consider it an attack on their beliefs. So the send up is a lose-lose proposition in the religion forum. Genuine satire only works in those forums where the people being satirized are capable of re-thinking their own position, and it must be done with kindness. Tabula is a master of being, as he put’s it, “funnily serious”. We should all take lessons…
For whatever it’s worth, IMO be happy that you don’t have that compulsion. It must be awful to have to hide behind a facade rather than have the freedom to be honest.
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Socrates analyzed you a long time ago and it was recorded in Plato’s Allegory of the Cave.
It’s up to the good card carrying experts like yourself who know who to ridicule for their “insane focus” and whose intelligence should be celebrated for being experts similar to themselves. Nothing worse than those expertly defined evil black sheep with the audacity to stick their nose outside the cave. And with all the money poured into education you’d think they would have at least the consideration to celebrate the “experts” but no they persist with their insane focus. As much as you condescend to help these unfortunates, they deny your expertise. No gratitude. sigh it takes all kinds.
Thanks be to the Supreme Expert, the creator of all experts, that he has condescended to pollenate ILP with representatives of his own image.
It is obvious that we need to finally and once and for all, rid society of these black sheep. Since boiling in oil has been outlawed, ridicule will have to suffice for the good of society. Again we must give thanks to the Supreme Expert for educating experts capable of defining for us exactly who these lowest of the low are in relation to the dictates of the “Great Beast” whose whole life is dedicated to interpretating and sustaining “societal good.”
Ah yes, just the type that must be banished:
Lord knows, similar experts tried to get rid of her but that uncooperative Red Virgin Simone , was a slippery cuss. Just another reason why we must put more money into education so as to train these unfortunates properly before it gets out of hand and they begin insulting the Supreme Expert and we must resort to educational ridicule for the public good.
It is part of a transition. I’ve tried in the past to relate in a precise manner respecting I believe of the depth of ancient ideas. I was hoping to find those with whom to discuss the commonalities within all the ancient traditions not for the purpose of ridiculing them but instead to uncover the jewels within them. I couldn’t do it and it seems that ILP is turning more towards the mundane with the goal of satisfaction through complaint and mockery. How much of a difference do you see now betweeen the philosophy board and mundane babble?
So I’ve given up here. If you have read some of what I have on the valiant efforts made by true seekers at the cost of their own lives in dedication to the personal inner experience of reality maybe then you’d understand why trying to buck the tide is no longer satisfying. Anyone can enjoy going down a hill. How many feel the need to go up the hill much as the salmon strives to return to the place of its arising? So it is easier to join in the ridicule and sarcasm and wait for new blood to renew the desire to respectfully discuss for the sake of understanding rather than post anything that I consider meaningful, at least for me, until the tide changes. So until then:
I enjoy humor but dislike mockery and ridicule. I prefer Borge to the Borg. Besides, can you imagine me, a broad shouldered Aries Male, driving on the city streets in a cube as the Borg does? How the heck could I pick up any chicks with that?
I don’t care how hypnotic the voice is, it won’t work I tell ya.
There is no way for them to do anything but lie to you. They may have good intent, but they simply have no way to uncover themselves. The list of reasons why people play pretentious roles is pretty much endless, and is almost impossible to discern in this medium.