I am very attracted to the esoteric or inner transformative qualities of the ancient traditions I believe initiated with a conscious source. I aspire to appreciate meaning of a certain quality that satisfies a need in me that I know is scorned by some others.
As usual, she has a profound understanding of these things that far exceeds mine. But this is really it in a nut shell. It is one thing to doubt which is normal but quite another not to hunger and be content with ordinary life as ones source for the substantial nutrition of meaning.
So it becomes awkward. The natural question of course is very politically incorrect because it suggests that there are differences in people. Jesus suggest this:
How to digest this? Are some of the world and some not? Of course now the cries of elitism, individualism and the whole nine yards erupts. Who am I to think that perhaps some people have acquired more naturally “ears to hear and eyes to see.”
Yet for some like Simone Weil, the question and the search for “who am I” is vital and for others, completely irrelevant and prefer instead that you just pass the mustard and continue with more practical matters.
What an extraordinary observation. Many people believe that aspiring to become oneself is an egotistic unnecessary absurdity derived from progress. It is much more understandable when considered as an emotional aspiration to return to the higher origin of man that involved from above.
This seems like a description of aspiration. A person aspires to “see” in the ancient meaning of the word and are willing to make the difficult sacrifices in order to do so. The overwhelming majority with an interest in spiritual matters are content with talking, a small minority actually think, and an even smaller come to be able to see.
If Ruskin is right, why is this so? Why is the drive to aspire different in people? Perhaps in some cases it is conditioning while in others it is something natural to the essence of the individual. For some reason or another, they are born with a head start and maybe began from a different origin. Of course we cannot know so we must be content with dealing with ourselves, our own needs, and our ability to emotionally aspire to satisfy them at the expense of our own imagination.
But this question of aspiration is an intriguing one. What is frightening is Jesus claim that the world hates the children of the light or those not from this world. How many have been ridiculed, belittled, harassed and even died just from this hate inspired by the natural effect these people have to inspire others to question their self importance?
Many aspire for success in the world. Others aspire towards freedom from the world and their return to their origin. Could they ever be united? “Faith without works is dead.” Nah, to obvious. This is a question for today’s experts and cannot be sacrificed to ancient ignorance. It isn’t their fault. They just didn’t have Yale or Harvard to teach them what to think.
In what way would you describe the transformational qualities having an effect on your life? How did you become aware that the traditions are not just ancient, but have an on-going relevance? Can you say something about your experience with that “conscious source�
Can you be sure whether the “need†in you is the dominant aspect, or is it the discovery of “substantial nutrition†that causes your aspiring to appreciate something? Your words weave about and seem to want to say something that you don’t actually come out with.
When you quote John 17:14-19 you seem to suggest more than aspiration, but in fact a status of someone who has “received†and who is “not of the world.†You ask, “Are some of the world and some not?†But your question is rhetorical, and you have the answer ready. Therefore, you begin lowly, suggesting an ambition, a desire to understand, but reveal a sentence later, that you are not writing about being “attracted to the esoteric or inner transformative qualities of the ancient traditions†but you are writing about yourself and the status you feel you have achieved.
You have to understand that everybody sees this as feigning humility. Your are writing about yourself and the fact that you don’t have the recognition you feel you are due, there are “cries of elitism†that you feel are a sign of ignorance – since you feel you belong to those who “have acquired more naturally "ears to hear and eyes to see."†By writing in this way, you achieve even less recognition than you might otherwise receive if you would remain with your aspiration, ambition or desire to understand.
Your admiration of Simone Weil is understandable, and whilst you say that you can’t keep up with her awareness, you identify yourself with the people you quote regularly. This too is an attempt to show others that you do in fact belong to the elite, and that, if people would listen they would see that. What you fail to notice is that you don’t offer any subject to discuss, that isn’t connected to your own status. Whenever others offer their opinion, they are immediately talking about you – whether they want to or not.
My suggestion would be that you begin by answering the questions I have placed at the beginning, and we can move on from there. Start with aspirations, and progress gradually through the subject of the “esoteric or inner transformative qualities of the ancient traditionsâ€.
That is really personal and I don’t trust talking about such things in depth here. I will say that I went to bed one night as one person and because of the effect certain living readings were having on me, I awoke as another. I experienced an inner change.
It was clear to me that what I had experienced was beyond what I was capable of providing for myself. It had a source with intelligence beyond what I normally took for intelligence and saved my life. This difference in intelligence includes an additional dimension of perspective and I experienced what was meant by the relative relationships between the higher and lower that can only truly be appreciated consciously.
In my case the need was first. I severely needed and without going into details it was a life and death situation. Curiously, I felt it coming. I knew something was going to happen. That is when “substantial nutrition” appeared for me.
The question really isn’t rhetorical. The question as to why people differ is an important one. It has become fashionable for people to deny it and exclaim that we are all the same which feels good but is meaningless. It is true that I do not feel “of the world.” As the old expression says: I feel in it but not of it. It is the people that don’t have experience but instead fake it that rely on public “status.” I had my inner ass kicked and was grateful for the experience. I know my nothingness in comparison to some others and human potential. It is really a big thing when a person does find their place on the great ladder of "being"and understanding.
PC thought and wrongful designations resulting in so much harm have caused many to deny the natural need inside of them for hierarchy and finding their place on the ladder. The result has been an artificial sameness that has become psychologically misleading. So if status for me means a personally beneficial change in understanding, it is OK with me.
When I was playing chess my Federation rating was 1942 which is a class A player and a little below expert. At that rating there are many below me and also above me. How should I be recognized? What recognition am I looking for and am I due? It changes depending on circumstances. To some beginners they would think me amazing yet in front of a grandmaster, I am nothing. It is only the people that lump all of spiritual understanding together as the same where recognition becomes important. For me it is unimportant.
While I do know by experience that I have changed, I know from this change a little about what is meant by eyes and ears just as in chess I know the difference between looking at the board when I began and when I was playing in a club. But why are you so caught up with recognition? I enjoy communication. The only time recognition is more important than genuine communication is when seducing a woman and image becomes imperative.
This is a philosophy site. People discuss philosophy and the person that inspired their thinking. Why does this appear so odd in my case. If someone quotes Nietzsche, the Bible,or the Tao, does this make them an elitist by definition. I have to quote these people since my thoughts are in a minority and need a certain support to not be howled into the gutter.
Don’t you believe that the question of aspiration and human differences is worthwhile discussing? Don’t you believe that the esoteric meanings of Plato’s cave allegory are worth discussing? Are you willing to tackle the question if people have essential differences? Maybe it is not that I don’t offer topics for discussion but rather that they are uncomfortable to discuss since they require impartially looking inside.
What were the “certain living readings†that had such an effect on you? How did you notice the difference? I can understand that you don’t want to speak about the personal details, but it would help if you could give us an idea of what kind of experience it was that made such a change.
Are you saying that it was a kind of mystical experience that can only be experienced to be understood? By intelligence I understand the ability to comprehend or understand, what additional dimension do you mean? Do you mean that the “intelligence†that you encountered had other perspectives unavailable to mankind? Is this “intelligence†otherwise known as “God†or an Angel or some other extraterrestrial Being?
In this life and death situation, you had a need that you had identified or that you intuitively felt and through some kind of experience brought on by the literature you were reading, you changed over night and found some form of “substantial nutrition” that satisfied that need?
I have had this kind of feeling as well during strenuous years of puberty, feeling assured that the story I was given me by my parents could hardly be the truth. There was something that they weren’t telling me and I felt different to my peers. The questions that go through our minds in that phase of growing up include whether what we are experiencing is real or just going on in our minds, whether we are in fact living beings or perhaps just aware robots, or perhaps that we are people with a special calling that people around us are unaware of.
As to whether other people “fake†experiences, it is something that is particularly difficult to discern on the Internet. You can only tell by the fruits of those experiences – since you retain your privacy it is hard to say whether you yourself are genuine. Would you say that your experience has borne fruits in your everyday life, if so what kind of fruits? I think the humility of having your “inner ass kicked†as you put it is more a parenthetical experience that could have a number of causes. I have found that it is no “big thing†to suddenly become aware of where we are in the cosmic hierarchy – perhaps that is because I am far lower than you?
That isn’t what I read in your posts, it seems to me that it is very important for you to make clear that you have discovered your status or position on the “great ladder of “being” and understanding†and you consider others fakes. What would interest me more though would be to understand what you are talking about on a level that would invite others to enter into such a conversation. This is, after all, a Forum. If nobody is able to discuss with you, then your post would be pointless.
I think you are mixing things up. It is not I that is caught up in “recognitionâ€. I have been telling you that you hardly talk about anything that isn’t connected to your mysterious experience and consequent status. Since you are secretive about such things, the subjects you write about lose context. I appreciate the literature you have quoted extensively, but I can always go out and buy the book. What are you saying?
As I have written, your quotes are so extensive that we hardly know what you are saying – if someone would continually answer questions by only quoting scripture, then there would hardly be a discussion going on. You seem to be addicted to the role of the victim, and at the same time subject to self-fulfilling prophecies. What is your thesis?
Well for one thing, I couldn’t drink for over a year. Something said that I must stop. An unhealthy relationship ended within a month because of a change in me apart from my musician’s ego acquired over the years. This experience made it silly. It is like if one has been blind for years and having their sight restored. Seeing becomes much more attractive and stimulating.
I don’t like to talk of particular readings public. The effects of similar readings vary between people so I can only speak for myself. So to avoid any bad vibes, I only recommend when someone asks me privately in a PM or something similar. Then I am happy to do so knowing the possibility of “bad vibes” from hecklers and the like has been avoided.
These things have to be experienced to be truly understood. The best analogy I can think of is to imagine yourself in a crowd and this is your daily life of interacting within this crowd. The perspective is linear and reaches further into the crowd or more into oneself depending on the effects of external conditions on our psych… This additional dimension is like going up into a building and looking down at the crowd with you in it. This is the vertical dimension added to what is normally only linear for us. Now the crowd and us within it exists as an interacting whole where right and wrong doesn’t exist as a value judgment but instead as the means allowing it to function. Good and bad for man becomes the quality of the connection of this vertical dimension. It connects the higher and lower allowing “thy will to be done on earth as it is in heaven” through this connection. The "intelligence"necessary to perceive in this way is a different quality, more conscious quality, of reason. It isn’t that it is not available to mankind but that we are asleep to it. It has become normal for most to rely on purely dual reasoning or associative thought where the vertical perspective becomes completely imaginary. This is why these experiences of satori or gnosis are so valuable. When they include this dimension and a person is struck that this quality of perception is unavailableto the animals yet a possibility for us, it opens a new meaning to the Cross where these two qualities of reason and experience intersect. This is a person’s true understanding. It is where perspective intersects facts. Even though the intensity and purity of the initial experience has worn off as it must, what remains is extremely valuable for me and as I implied before, without it I could easily be a dead musician now.
Yes, life made no sense as a whole. It never did in grade school, high school, or college, much to the mutual disadvantage of my instructors and me. All systems of philosophy and psychology were full of holes and contradictions. I needed meaning more and more and was fortunate to find access to it through people who apparently needed and aspired more than me.
Do you notice how many threads exist on ILP but they are unrelated. They are like little plants that sprout for a few posts and then die off. They keep sprouting up but unrelated, everything stays at the same level. This can be felt as meaningless on a more broad scale. so how can it make sense? All Ican say is admit to the gratitude I experienced when what seemed to be absurd began to fall into place and it became clear why it was so and indeed had to be. Instead of questions being out of place, they all found their right place. finally there were people that understood the nature of things such as art and sex making them understandable within a higher context while avoiding the normal tendency to discuss them on the most trivial and competitive level.
So by all means, my discoveries pointed to the direction in which meaning can be experienced beyond the cultural and secular.
I’ve been told that I must verify everything so there is no sense in taking my word. I just feel a certain degree of inner development in those like Prof. Needleman and the particle physicist Basarab Nicolescu who understand my path far greater than I do that as men I find attractive. Their service to humanity continues to be invaluable IMO.
I had one satisfying experience on another site in which a very exceptional woman had a very horrid childhood being subject to abuse and denied education. She was finally rescued off the street by some Dominicans and found to be intelligent. They educated her and she went to Fordham University where she got a degree in Theology with a GPA of 4.0. When we began posting she wrote me privately asking the source of some ideas so we became friendly. She went through some books like a fish takes to water which I believe helped her a great deal. also being very much alone because of her odd circumstances she would be now able to meet some people that would not consider her strange but would appreciate where she was coming from. Even though I am in NY and she was in the State of Washington, I had access to people she could talk with. I felt very good for this since she would no longer have to feel so isolated in her thoughts and gradually develop new friendships as well as genuine spiritual interactions with others.
Right now it doesn’t seem like a big thing but if you ever experience this vertical direction and the cosmic hierarchy, it will become a “big thing.”
I have always been interested in the religious calling and science. Much to the despair of many around me, I couldn’t see how or why they were in contradiction. The value of the teaching for me is that it is presented as an organic whole that reflects universal conditions. In this way it is real art. At this level of art, there is no contradiction between science and “being.” As I’ve learned, ART of a certain quality can be considered as an ARTificial means by which a person when open can be introduced to a metaphysical experience. This is not a modern idea and the necessary skill is not on the surface which is why such art when public is usually quite old.
I don’t like to deny opportunities for people. I know that such ideas are often offensive and cannot be helped. So I look for those not so easy to offend. They have to be presented in a certain way as part of an organic whole. If you begin to describe a dog you cannot concentrate on the nose or tail but come to it from several sides so that the form begins to take shape. So asking me “What am I saying” is not as easy as it appears because it is not so cut and dried. I can say that man on earth is an unfinished creation but how to make this understandable requires a greater framework in which man is within.
This is one of the reasons I’ve been pushing for the New Religion Board on the help and suggestions board. Its nature would invite discussions impossible now, a welcome contrast, and beneficial in this way. I’ve been told that esoteric Christianity and esoteric Buddhism are extremely similar. It would be an interesting discussion for me with an open minded Buddhist. but they have to be attracted. It could become inviting for those on the cusp so to speak inviting welcome sincere questions in contrast to sarcasm.
We are nothing; doomed to continue the blind cyclical rotations on the wheel of samsara with a potential “to be” through a conscious change of our level of “being.” This is a higher quality of life serving a higher cosmological purpose and linked with something called the “Kingdom.”
It is through this call of meaning that a person aspires to understand and seeks the “Pearl of great Price” Unless one really needs meaning of a higher and deeper quality, why sell off good stuff? A person must aspire to “understand” in the real meaning of the word. Some do and some don’t. Why?